Legalism or Sunday keeping - what is the mark?

[1John2:4]

Yes they are. We are either under grace or under law. Those that mix the two are only fooling themselves.

I pray you will take the time to really read and study the Tanakh. It is all about love, a wonderful creator God who loves His people and desires a relationship with them (us). If you read it with spiritual eyes you see God is reaching for us desiring that we do what is right and stay away from sin so that He can have a relationship with us. The law (instructions) is written for our own good, so it will go well with us, so we can have life. God can not reside with sin and He is a just God so we reap what we sew when we brake his law. In his grace, He knew that the just part was an obstacle for man, so He sent His Son to die for us that we would no longer be under the curse that we created by our own hands by breaking His law. Now that we are cleansed by the blood of Yeshua we walk as a new creation peeling of the sin of the old man and walking as He walked.

Do you not see that it is all grace? He wrote down exactly how to love Him. He wrote instructions on how to love Him what pleases Him and the things He hates. He wrote for us the days that are special to Him and that He wants us to not work on those days but to seek Him on those days. He wrote that we are to love and care for each other because we are all brothers and sisters. We are a family and he gave us this perfect list of instructions to learn how to live.

Would you tell your wife that you would only keep her birthday on the day you felt like keeping and it was just the thought that counts? Would you tell her that you can keep her birthday whenever you want, or not at all because it is bondage to keep it? What about if she said she hated something that you did, would you continue to do that thing she hates because it is not a big deal to you? What if she wanted you to spend a special day with her that she set aside just for you and her, would you tell her you were too busy and she could have an hour on Sunday instead because you did not want to be legalistic?

God wrote it all down for us and when we take the time to truly seek Him and learn who He is that is true relationship.

 

[bloodygrace]

And yet Paul Himself kept the law. See Acts 21.
And he obligated Timothy to the law by circumcising him. See Acts 16.

He just did that to appease the Jews and get into their synagogues so he could preach the gospel. He was just playin' the game playa, playa. Do you have any game?

 

[bloodygrace]

I pray you will take the time to really read and study the Tanakh. It is all about love, a wonderful creator God who loves His people and desires a relationship with them (us). If you read it with spiritual eyes you see God is reaching for us desiring that we do what is right and stay away from sin so that He can have a relationship with us. The law (instructions) is written for our own good, so it will go well with us, so we can have life. God can not reside with sin and He is a just God so we reap what we sew when we brake his law. In his grace, He knew that the just part was an obstacle for man, so He sent His Son to die for us that we would no longer be under the curse that we created by our own hands by breaking His law. Now that we are cleansed by the blood of Yeshua we walk as a new creation peeling of the sin of the old man and walking as He walked.

Do you not see that it is all grace? He wrote down exactly how to love Him. He wrote instructions on how to love Him what pleases Him and the things He hates. He wrote for us the days that are special to Him and that He wants us to not work on those days but to seek Him on those days. He wrote that we are to love and care for each other because we are all brothers and sisters. We are a family and he gave us this perfect list of instructions to learn how to live.

Would you tell your wife that you would only keep her birthday on the day you felt like keeping and it was just the thought that counts? Would you tell her that you can keep her birthday whenever you want, or not at all because it is bondage to keep it? What about if she said she hated something that you did, would you continue to do that thing she hates because it is not a big deal to you? What if she wanted you to spend a special day with her that she set aside just for you and her, would you tell her you were too busy and she could have an hour on Sunday instead because you did not want to be legalistic?

God wrote it all down for us and when we take the time to truly seek Him and learn who He is that is true relationship.

This is the Judaizing heresy aka mixing law and grace. If you were honest you could admit that you really don't have any grace at all.

 

[bloodygrace]

This thread is on legalism or Sunday being the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast is the worst sin we can commit and the worst recorded sin that ever took place in the bible the crucifixion of Christ by his own people. These people were Sabbath keepers who had healthy diets and took great pride in their law-keeping. This isn't that hard to figure out.

 

[1John2:4]

This is the Judaizing heresy aka mixing law and grace. If you were honest you could admit that you really don't have any grace at all.

All I can say is I will pray for you brother, I guess our conversation ends here. I pray that you will find peace to cure your angry/ bitter heart towards myself and others who choose to keep God's Instructions and I hope someday you will find a love for the truth.
Shalom my friend

 

[bloodygrace]

All I can say is I will pray for you brother, I guess our conversation ends here. I pray that you will find peace to cure your angry/ bitter heart towards myself and others who choose to keep God's Instructions and I hope someday you will find a love for the truth.
Shalom my friend

And I pray that you will one day find the gospel. The real gospel which is by faith in the finished work of Christ. It's not possible to get works-righteousness out of a finished gospel - this is why so many hate and oppose it.

 

[Dave-W]

He just did that to appease the Jews and get into their synagogues so he could preach the gospel. He was just playin' the game playa, playa. Do you have any game?

You will owe Paul a HUGE apology. And Timothy.

Why would he put his #1 disciple "under the Law" just to scam a few synagogues? Circumcision is not some "game."

Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

Does that sound like a game?

 

[bloodygrace]

You will owe Paul a HUGE apology. And Timothy.

Why would he put his #1 disciple "under the Law" just to scam a few synagogues? Circumcision is not some "game."

Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

Does that sound like a game?

That you could even quote that verse the way you did shows you have never read or understood Galatians. Circumcision pointed forward to the circumcision of Christ. The Sabbath pointed forward to the rest of Christ. And the entire law itself pointed forward to the love of Christ. All you have are the shadows of Christianity and we have the reality.

 

[Dave-W]

That you could even quote that verse the way you did shows you have never read or understood Galatians. Circumcision pointed forward to the circumcision of Christ. The Sabbath pointed forward to the rest of Christ. And the entire law itself pointed forward to the love of Christ. All you have are the shadows of Christianity and we have the reality.

You have the dynamic of "point to" stuck in your mind and you see everything that way. It means you ignore all the other things it does. (do you think God is so inefficient that He cannot cover 2 or 10 bases with one act?)

Paul wrote that verse AFTER the "circumcised" Messiah died, resurrected, and ascended. For it to ONLY point to Him years after the fact would have been a waste of paper and ink. There must be more, an on-going truth there.

And yes - Paul DID obligate Timothy to the whole Torah. He was Jewish by way of his mother.

BTW - "law" is not a good translation of Torah which actually means teaching.

 

[bloodygrace]

You have the dynamic of "point to" stuck in your mind and you see everything that way. It means you ignore all the other things it does. (do you think God is so inefficient that He cannot cover 2 or 10 bases with one act?)

Paul wrote that verse AFTER the "circumcised" Messiah died, resurrected, and ascended. For it to ONLY point to Him years after the fact would have been a waste of paper and ink. There must be more, an on-going truth there.

And yes - Paul DID obligate Timothy to the whole Torah. He was Jewish by way of his mother.

BTW - "law" is not a good translation of Torah which actually means teaching.

Paul lived in a time when the Jewish synagogues ruled the religious landscape so he often had to play by their rules and receive beatings at their hands. There was no organized church structure at that time with most churches being house churches. Paul presents Abraham in Romans 4 as being justified by faith prior to being circumcised showing that the ritual was wholly unnecessary for those who were justified by faith in Christ. Just like Sabbath keeping and food restrictions are wholly unnecessary as well. Your arguments fall flat and are only accepted by the weak in faith.

 

[Dave-W]

Bloody - what do you do with Acts 15 and 21?

Do you give a close reading of the text; or gloss over it as "mere history" that is meaningless?

 

[Dave-W]

If you really consider yourself to be "the smartest guy in the room," why do you ignore or sidestep the questions asked of you?

 

[bloodygrace]

If you really consider yourself to be "the smartest guy in the room," why do you ignore or sidestep the questions asked of you?

Acts 15 says the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised or keep the law. Come on, man!

 

[Dave-W]

Acts 15 says the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised or keep the law. Come on, man!

Exactly. Not REQUIRED.
(but free to participate and encouraged to do so)

But what does it say about believing JEWS? (why Acts 21 has to be included in that discussion)

 

[bloodygrace]

Exactly. Not REQUIRED.
(but free to participate and encouraged to do so)

But what does it say about believing JEWS? (why Acts 21 has to be included in that discussion)

You may have an argument if there was a functioning earthly temple and priesthood today. You are aware that 95% of the Torah cannot be obeyed without this? All those like yourself who boastfully claim to keep the law are like children playing in the sand box.

 

[Dave-W]

We know who the priests are. (I knw a few myself) And the preps are underway for a 3rd temple.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Many Sabbath/law proponents are very vocal in their belief that Sunday keeping is the mark of the beast.

While most mainline Christians who have no set teaching on this see legalism or a fall from grace as the worst sin a Christian can commit.

So please vote and share your thoughts.

Sunday has traditionally been a literal worship day for sun gods.

When the entity known as Antichrist is revealed, it will likely recreate some form of Hebrew system of worship and sacrifice - like the FAKE Christ that it is.

Just like REAL Hebrew traditions celebrating a weekly holy day on the seventh day, this entity is believed to create the same fake system - except use the day of sun worship as the holy day.

The JULIAN day is unimportant; Exodus 1w explains what the new year and a month is, and Genesis 1 describes what a day is. You count from these sources.

Sunday worship, or whatever day it may be or be called, is a part of the mark. Why? Because your mind follows this entity''s fake system (beast system,) and your right/dominant hand does the work of the faith you have in your mind (celebrations, sacrifices, etc.)

Faith without works is dead goes BOTH ways. Fruits of the spirit, confession of Christ, and repentance are a mark of a Christian - s/he trusts God in their mind, and substantiates their faith by their works.

Those who follow the beast system, and trust in it sew the mark in their head, and forehead.

The tapestry is being woven for both sides now.

I don't think anyone who advocates keeping the SEVENTH DAY Sabbath is saying that one's salvation depends on following this COMMANDMENT (because, it is a commandment.)

 

[bloodygrace]

We know who the priests are. (I knw a few myself) And the preps are underway for a 3rd temple.

Jesus is our great high priest. Do you know him?

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus is our great high priest. Do you know him?

Indeed I do. AKA Yeshua - the most Torah-observant Jew to ever live.

 

[bloodygrace]

Sunday has traditionally been a literal worship day for sun gods.

When the entity known as Antichrist is revealed, it will likely recreate some form of Hebrew system of worship and sacrifice - like the FAKE Christ that it is.

Just like REAL Hebrew traditions celebrating a weekly holy day on the seventh day, this entity is believed to create the same fake system - except use the day of sun worship as the holy day.

The JULIAN day is unimportant; Exodus 1w explains what the new year and a month is, and Genesis 1 describes what a day is. You count from these sources.

Sunday worship, or whatever day it may be or be called, is a part of the mark. Why? Because your mind follows this entity''s fake system (beast system,) and your right/dominant hand does the work of the faith you have in your mind (celebrations, sacrifices, etc.)

Faith without works is dead goes BOTH ways. Fruits of the spirit, confession of Christ, and repentance are a mark of a Christian - s/he trusts God in their mind, and substantiates their faith by their works.

Those who follow the beast system, and trust in it sew the mark in their head, and forehead.

The tapestry is being woven for both sides now.

I don't think anyone who advocates keeping the SEVENTH DAY Sabbath is saying that one's salvation depends on following this COMMANDMENT (because, it is a commandment.)

For all those who live outside the very small world of Messianics, Hebrew roots and SDA - Sunday is known as the day Christ rose from the grave on. The fact that sun worship took place historically on that day does not diminish the fact that Christ chose that day to rise from the grave in victory over sin and death. Sabbath or Saturn-day also has a pagan history but we never hear about that.