LDS/Mormonism

[Jason of Wyoming]

Brigham Young taught that God the Father had a father. He used the term God the "grandfather". I'll give you a taste (comes from the same sermon that he used to preach against black men holding the priesthood):

"That slavery will continue, until there is a people raised up upon the face of the earth who will contend for righteous principles, who will not only beleive in but operate, with every power and faculty given to them to help to establish the kingdom of God, to overcome the devil, and drive him from the earth, then will this curse be removed. This was the starting point of slavery. Again after adam, and Eve had pertook of the curse, we find they had two sons Cain and Able, but which was the oldest I cannot positively say; but this I know, Cain was given more to evil practices than Abel, but whether he was the oldest or not matters not to me. Adam was commanded to sacrifice, and offer up his offerings to God, that placed him into the garden of Eden. Through the faith and obedience of Able to his heavenly father, Cain became jealous of him, and he laid a plan to obtain all his flocks; for through his perfect obedience to father he obtained more blessings than Cain; consequently he took it into his heart to put able able of this mortal existance. After the deed was done, the Lord enquired to able, and made Cain own what he had done with him. Now says the GRAND FATHER I will not distroy the seed of michael and his wife; and cain I will not kill you, nor suffer any one to kill you, but I will put a mark upon you." (Brigham Young, Feb 5, 1852, Speech Before Utah Territorial Legislature. caps mine)

Brigham Young's teaching here makes more sense when you understand that he believed that Adam was God the Father. Of course, that's yet another mormon doctrine buried deep in their history...

 

[happyinhisgrace]

FB: Happy, I don't know where you lived or was raised.

Utah

I do know that if this teaching was given at the pulpit, the bishop would have gotten up and corrected the speaker.

Yet he didn't

I know this happens because I remember one of the few times I ever went to church in my youth, that a person from another ward was giving a talk and not paying attention, I have no idea as to what he was talking about. But the bishop stopped the person and corrected him. From what I understand this went all the way up to the stake president, and the bishop had every right to do what he did. What you are saying is not correct in what we have ever taught or believed.

Bunk! I know what I was taught and I am not a liar, regardless of what you may think or say to the contrary.

By the way I was just about through with college when you were born.

Good for you, I'm glad you went to college.

 

[Rescued One]

what you're dealing with is multiple issues. there is no way God has parents. like i said good mormons become like God. see my above statements. as for being ready, that is for u to decide not anyone else. as for having a physical body- not true. and he dosen't live on another planet. more tomorrow.

What happened to the old hymnal that we used when I was LDS?

O My Father, 292 - Eliza R. Snow

O my Father, thou that dwellest In the high and glorious place,
When shall I regain thy presence And again behold thy face?
In thy holy habitation, Did my spirit once reside?
In my first primeval childhood, Was I nurtured near thy side?

For a wise and glorious purpose Thou hast placed me here on earth
And withheld the recollection Of my former friends and birth;
Yet ofttimes a secret something Whispered,"You're a stranger here,"
And I felt that I had wandered From a more exalted sphere.

I had learned to call thee Father, Thru thy Spirit from on high,
But, until the key of knowledge Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason, truth eternal Tells me I've a mother there.

When I leave this frail existence, When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?
Then, at length, when I've completed All you sent me forth to do,
With your mutual approbation Let me come and dwell with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you go on to be a God, will you have had parents?

 

[Rescued One]

try this on for size: if a person goes around bashing other christian churches, are they christian themselves? the answer is No.

Are you saying that your LDS prophets and apostles weren't Christians?
With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199

What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense. Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work that the Christianity of the nineteenth century. - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 167


Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, that he lived and died a Prophet and that the Book of Mormon is true, is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:287

The gods of Christendom are just as false as the gods of the Assyrians-Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p55

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

Modern day apostle McConkie, "Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177) He goes on to call everything that is not Mormon, "...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

 

[feo]

Are you saying that your LDS prophets and apostles weren't Christians?
With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199

What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense. Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work that the Christianity of the nineteenth century. - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 167


Every spirit that confesses that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, that he lived and died a Prophet and that the Book of Mormon is true, is of God, and every spirit that does not is of anti-Christ. - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:287

The gods of Christendom are just as false as the gods of the Assyrians-Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p55

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

Modern day apostle McConkie, "Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177) He goes on to call everything that is not Mormon, "...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

w0rd.
Thats what I'm talking about.

Except. I didnt bother looking for the quotes.
They'll just fall upon deaf ears.

 

[Der Alte]

w0rd.
Thats what I'm talking about.

Except. I didnt bother looking for the quotes.
They'll just fall upon deaf ears.

O ye of little faith! That is not what will happen. Please observe the LDS apologist.

Amended to add:
If you do not see an image above, click on thumbnail, to see the LDS apologist, explaining LDS history.

 

[feo]

O ye of little faith! That is not what will happen.

Well its true. Any mention of church history causes the mormons to run away...

 

[happyinhisgrace]

What happened to the old hymnal that we used when I was LDS?

O My Father, 292 - Eliza R. Snow

O my Father, thou that dwellest In the high and glorious place,
When shall I regain thy presence And again behold thy face?
In thy holy habitation, Did my spirit once reside?
In my first primeval childhood, Was I nurtured near thy side?

For a wise and glorious purpose Thou hast placed me here on earth
And withheld the recollection Of my former friends and birth;
Yet ofttimes a secret something Whispered,"You're a stranger here,"
And I felt that I had wandered From a more exalted sphere.

I had learned to call thee Father, Thru thy Spirit from on high,
But, until the key of knowledge Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason, truth eternal Tells me I've a mother there.

When I leave this frail existence, When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?
Then, at length, when I've completed All you sent me forth to do,
With your mutual approbation Let me come and dwell with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you go on to be a God, will you have had parents?

Oh, that's just one of the most often songs sung in lds services, it isn't "official doctrine".

 

[disciple00]

mormon doctrine is mucas based substance...
it apppears solid and even somewhat tangable, but when yuo wanna ick it up for a closeer look, ploop! it slips through gras and back to the floor. it's amazing, i must say, to find a church that teaches almost 100% doctrines that aren't it's own official dctrines. it's like one of those tube worms on the bottem f thew ocean, proudly displaying it's colors until somebody swims by to investigate and swish, it's gone.


i too was taught that God had parents, and that we even have a heavenly mother in heaven also..... come one now all you lds folks, why are tyu so ashamed of the stuff ya'll believe yet you are still mormons... come one! just give up this childishness, if you believe that stuff, defend your beliefs! i defend mine, even when i'm the only one in the room and the others laugh, mock, insult, you name it...

sad, closet mormons..

disciple00

 

[happyinhisgrace]

mormon doctrine is mucas based substance...
it apppears solid and even somewhat tangable, but when yuo wanna ick it up for a closeer look, ploop! it slips through gras and back to the floor. it's amazing, i must say, to find a church that teaches almost 100% doctrines that aren't it's own official dctrines. it's like one of those tube worms on the bottem f thew ocean, proudly displaying it's colors until somebody swims by to investigate and swish, it's gone.


i too was taught that God had parents, and that we even have a heavenly mother in heaven also..... come one now all you lds folks, why are tyu so ashamed of the stuff ya'll believe yet you are still mormons... come one! just give up this childishness, if you believe that stuff, defend your beliefs! i defend mine, even when i'm the only one in the room and the others laugh, mock, insult, you name it...

sad, closet mormons..

disciple00

Yes, I agree. I have said this so many times, in different situations that it is like a "broken record" but I KNOW what I was taught in the LDS church and I KNOW FOR A FACT that some of the things that lds have claimed here on CF about their churches teachings are more than just misconceptions, they are BOLD FACED LIES! I especially get disgusted with the deception of a few folks who have been in the lds church for even more years than I was and then they turn around and claim "we don't teach that, we have never taught that, it isn't doctrine". And the entire time, those of use who KNOW better are sitting back just shaking our heads at the legnths that some are willing to go, to "lie for the lord". It is shameful and pathetic.

When I was a true believing lds member, I was proud of their "wierd" beliefs, I didn't lie about them. I didn't try to pretend they were something they really wern't. I did do things when I was lds, that I am now, very ashamed of. A good example would be that I overstepped my boundries with people far to often in efforts to "bring them to the gospel".

Anyway, I agree. Why lie about what the lds church teaches? Why not just be honest and upfront about the beliefs, why try to put the lds church in light of "mainstream" Christianity? The Mormon church (and yes, it used to be that lds didn't mind being called Mormon, we were proud of the fact that we were different) never used to try to hide their "odd" or "unusual" beliefs. They didn't used to try to "sugarcoat" them or "change" them.

If the LDS church, really is the "One true Church", surely they can stand the scrutiny, surely they don't need to "comform" to man's views of things. Be upfront, be honest about your beliefs. If people hear them and run screaming for the hills, then so be it, at least you will be viewed as open and honest even if they feel your beliefs are totally "off-base".

 

[disciple00]

Yes, I agree. I have said this so many times, in different situations that it is like a "broken record" but I KNOW what I was taught in the LDS church and I KNOW FOR A FACT that some of the things that lds have claimed here on CF about their churches teachings are more than just misconceptions, they are BOLD FACED LIES! I especially get disgusted with the deception of a few folks who have been in the lds church for even more years than I was and then they turn around and claim "we don't teach that, we have never taught that, it isn't doctrine". And the entire time, those of use who KNOW better are sitting back just shaking our heads at the legnths that some are willing to go, to "lie for the lord". It is shameful and pathetic.

When I was a true believing lds member, I was proud of their "wierd" beliefs, I didn't lie about them. I didn't try to pretend they were something they really wern't. I did do things when I was lds, that I am now, very ashamed of. A good example would be that I overstepped my boundries with people far to often in efforts to "bring them to the gospel".

Anyway, I agree. Why lie about what the lds church teaches? Why not just be honest and upfront about the beliefs, why try to put the lds church in light of "mainstream" Christianity? The Mormon church (and yes, it used to be that lds didn't mind being called Mormon, we were proud of the fact that we were different) never used to try to hide their "odd" or "unusual" beliefs. They didn't used to try to "sugarcoat" them or "change" them.

If the LDS church, really is the "One true Church", surely they can stand the scrutiny, surely they don't need to "comform" to man's views of things. Be upfront, be honest about your beliefs. If people hear them and run screaming for the hills, then so be it, at least you will be viewed as open and honest even if they feel your beliefs are totally "off-base".

yeah, i know what you mean, amen sister,
i have seen them dodge soooo many questions, i have pinned them down a few times where they must either refute very easy to understand verses, or admit that the lds church is false, they just go away and refuse to answer any questions. i have been reading a few threads tday and it makes me sick to read their lies. i'll send ytuo one that will really get your goooat so to seak

disciple00

 

[disciple00]

check out post #110
i just had t pick aart ne f army's posts, it's the best example i can easily find
00

 

[fatboys]

Yes, I agree. I have said this so many times, in different situations that it is like a "broken record" but I KNOW what I was taught in the LDS church and I KNOW FOR A FACT that some of the things that lds have claimed here on CF about their churches teachings are more than just misconceptions, they are BOLD FACED LIES! I especially get disgusted with the deception of a few folks who have been in the lds church for even more years than I was and then they turn around and claim "we don't teach that, we have never taught that, it isn't doctrine". And the entire time, those of use who KNOW better are sitting back just shaking our heads at the legnths that some are willing to go, to "lie for the lord". It is shameful and pathetic.

When I was a true believing lds member, I was proud of their "wierd" beliefs, I didn't lie about them. I didn't try to pretend they were something they really wern't. I did do things when I was lds, that I am now, very ashamed of. A good example would be that I overstepped my boundries with people far to often in efforts to "bring them to the gospel".

Anyway, I agree. Why lie about what the lds church teaches? Why not just be honest and upfront about the beliefs, why try to put the lds church in light of "mainstream" Christianity? The Mormon church (and yes, it used to be that lds didn't mind being called Mormon, we were proud of the fact that we were different) never used to try to hide their "odd" or "unusual" beliefs. They didn't used to try to "sugarcoat" them or "change" them.

If the LDS church, really is the "One true Church", surely they can stand the scrutiny, surely they don't need to "comform" to man's views of things. Be upfront, be honest about your beliefs. If people hear them and run screaming for the hills, then so be it, at least you will be viewed as open and honest even if they feel your beliefs are totally "off-base".

FB: Happy I am twenty years older than you. I was never taught, nor did I ever teach that God had parents. Jason said that we taught that God had grandparents which is just plain false. Again you may have been in a ward that was the upper intellectual area, where there is probably more speculation going on, but whether or not you were taught this, it is wrong. Sorry you had to experience this. And perhaps had you stuck with the basic truths of the church, you would still be a member. What I am in amazement is that you are calling me a liar and dishonest. I did not call you a liar, just said that it was a false teaching, and no one had the right to teach it to you. And rarely do I lie.

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

"Jason said that we taught that God had grandparents which is just plain false."

Um, I believe you meant to say that "Brigham Young taught..." It's not my teaching. I gave you the reference. If you don't like it, leave the Church.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

FB: Happy I am twenty years older than you. I was never taught, nor did I ever teach that God had parents. Jason said that we taught that God had grandparents which is just plain false. Again you may have been in a ward that was the upper intellectual area, where there is probably more speculation going on, but whether or not you were taught this, it is wrong. Sorry you had to experience this. And perhaps had you stuck with the basic truths of the church, you would still be a member. What I am in amazement is that you are calling me a liar and dishonest. I did not call you a liar, just said that it was a false teaching, and no one had the right to teach it to you. And rarely do I lie.

I have been in several different wards, in several different states and it was something that was taught in all the wards I was in. It was not an "isolated" incodent".

No, I would not still be a member regardless of what I had "stuck" with. Jesus came calling and I answered His call. That would have happened no matter what "teachings" in the lds church I had "stuck" too. Once you come to know the real, one true Jesus, there is not staying with a belief system that doesn't teach His truth.

 

[skylark1]

Happy, was it always taught that God the Father has grandparents, or only that he has parents? I am just curious.

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

I have been in several different wards, in several different states and it was something that was taught in all the wards I was in. It was not an "isolated" incodent".

No, I would not still be a member regardless of what I had "stuck" with. Jesus came calling and I answered His call. That would have happened no matter what "teachings" in the lds church I had "stuck" too. Once you come to know the real, one true Jesus, there is not staying with a belief system that doesn't teach His truth.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[fatboys]

I have been in several different wards, in several different states and it was something that was taught in all the wards I was in. It was not an "isolated" incodent".

No, I would not still be a member regardless of what I had "stuck" with. Jesus came calling and I answered His call. That would have happened no matter what "teachings" in the lds church I had "stuck" too. Once you come to know the real, one true Jesus, there is not staying with a belief system that doesn't teach His truth.

FB: Was it taught at general conference, or stake conference, or ward conference? Really Happy, if it was taught it was wrong. It is a false teaching. It is only a speculation to understand things we have no idea about.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Happy, was it always taught that God the Father has grandparents, or only that he has parents? I am just curious.

It was seldom taught in my experience that He had grandparents but it was often taught that He had parents. I personally paid more attention to the teaching that He had parents, than I did to the one that He had grandparents, simply because it was discussed more.

I remember one time in seminary that we had a special speaker. He even went so far as to make the comparison that God could have been nothing more than a garbage man when He was human on the earth that he grew up on before He progressed to being a God himself. The speaker talked about how God has gone through everything we have and that He was put on an earth and tried and "tested" just like we are right now and He proved Himself worthy and progressed to "godhood", where He went on to have a world of His own with spirit children of His own, just like His "heavenly parents" before Him.

Anyway, I didn't just "learn" it in seminary but like I said before, it was taught at church also. Until becoming a Christian, I didn't even think it was a "wierd" or "unbiblical" teachings. I just assumed that it was true because that is what I was taught in the lds church. Of course when I came to Jesus and got to know the Word of God, I started to see things in an entirely different light.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

FB: Was it taught at general conference, or stake conference, or ward conference? Really Happy, if it was taught it was wrong. It is a false teaching. It is only a speculation to understand things we have no idea about.

Brigham Young taught things "as a prophet", from the pulpit, that lds now try and claim was "nothing more than His personal opinion" so I don't take much stock in your above statement.