LDS/Mormonism

[Jason of Wyoming]

"A prophet is only a prophet when later generations interpret him as such." -Me

 

[fatboys]

Brigham Young taught things "as a prophet", from the pulpit, that lds now try and claim was "nothing more than His personal opinion" so I don't take much stock in your above statement.

FB: Yes he did. And I am not saying anything he taught was false, but he did not teach that God had a grandfather. If he had, and it was suppose to be doctrine, then it would be found in the D&C. It is not. It really is not hard to tell what we believe in. The standard works

 

[Rescued One]

FB: Yes he did. And I am not saying anything he taught was false, but he did not teach that God had a grandfather. If he had, and it was suppose to be doctrine, then it would be found in the D&C. It is not. It really is not hard to tell what we believe in. The standard works

But when I was LDS we also believed what the prophets taught us. Those who are called of God to present His Messages do not teach heresies and speculations from the pulpit.

General Authority Theodore A. Tuttle said, "Our salvation is contingent upon our belief in a living prophet and adherence to his word. He alone has the right to revelation for the whole church... the greatest of all scripture which we have in the world today is current scripture. What the mouthpiece of God says to His children is scripture" (Deseret News, "Church News," April 7, 1973, p. 11).

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

FB: Yes he did. And I am not saying anything he taught was false, but he did not teach that God had a grandfather. If he had, and it was suppose to be doctrine, then it would be found in the D&C. It is not. It really is not hard to tell what we believe in. The standard works

FB,

What about the revelations of John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff that aren't in the D&C? (Im thinking of Taylors 1886 revelation and Woodruff's 1889 revelation.)

 

[Fit4Christ]

FB: Yes he did. And I am not saying anything he taught was false, but he did not teach that God had a grandfather. If he had, and it was suppose to be doctrine, then it would be found in the D&C. It is not. It really is not hard to tell what we believe in. The standard works

You mean there are people in the lds church who teach things other than "official doctrine"?? Oh my goodness!! How dare they teach such blasphamy! They must be apostates. They should be excommunicated!

Face it fatboys, despite your denials, the lds as a religion goes through the same thing that Christianity has. People make claims or teach or do things that are or were not based on the word of God (or considered "doctrine" in your case). The difference is, your religion is based on control and conformity. Everyone must toe the party line and dissension or disagreement is not allowed and/or tolerated.

Our God gave us free will to make these mistakes as well as the ability to "test the spirits" (1 John4:1) on whether these claims/actions are valid. We have freedom in Christ.

 

[prayer soulja]

Well all I know and care is that the LDS Church is a racist and sexist church. How can all "black" people be the descendents of Cain, that God's mark on him is black skin. Also there is something in the Book of Mormon that says something about the Native Americans. Oh yeah so if all Mormons are Christians, arent all Christians Mormons then?

 

[prayer soulja]

About the Native American thing: If the Book of Mormon is true, why do Native American (Indians) fail to turn white when they become Mormons? (2 Nephi 30:6, prior to the 1981 revision).

 

[disciple00]

hey prayer soulja,

you need to take your though a step further, albino's must be the most righteous people on earth, don't you know that skin pigment = sin?

also, if you're going to try to hold the lds church to what any of it's former leaders said, good luck, mormon doctrine is sooo slipery not ever glue sticks to it.

besides, i ws in the sun four like hour last week and i am noticably darker... was i sinning?

lol

disciple00

 

[feo]

Well its true. Any mention of church history causes the mormons to run away...

See?
fled like bats in an opened cave!

Der Alter:
Nice picture he he he

 

[Der Alte]

See?
fled like bats in an opened cave!

Der Alter:
Nice picture he he he

Thanx. "Play it again , Sam." Humphrey Bogart, 1942

 

[pyro457]

Ok..this is a well known belief of Mormons, but I have never heard one iota substiantial objective evidence to back this statement up when I have debated this issue with Mormons. Can you possibly rectify this please?

This is a response to a remark saying to prove the apostasy, so i will.
However I am not condeming any other religion or person. I belive that many non-mormons will still be allowed into heaven. Mormons do not belive that only mormons will be granted into heaven, it is not taught in our church. If anyone from the LDS church says that to you then they are ignorant in some of their views, but it does not mean they are a bad person.

One of the many verses in the bible that tell of the apostasy is Acts 3:19-21. This tells of the times of restitution, and times of refreshing that shall come from the presence of the Lord. And the He shall send Jesus Christ, (hmm.. who was at the first vision of Joseph Smith???).
Another verse that says that the second comming will not happen UNTIL a "falling away" occurs, 2 Thess. 2:1-3. This verse alone should be proof alone that an apostasy has occured. If it is not I recomend that you visit this web site of Jeff Lindsay.(just type his name as the adress) for not only the answer to this in great length but also any other question that you have regarding Mormons and our belifes, history, and evidence supporting the Book of Mormon.

 

[Romans5:1]

I'm currently setting up a website for online interdominational prayer groups. I've had several LDS express an interest in joining up. Now, I've heard of course that LDS are not "real" Christians in some way, but I'm pretty fuzzy on why. Several web sites turned up in a search have not left me any clearer.

So, why are LDS not considered among mainstream churches? What are their specific doctrinal differences? Should they be considered non-christians or heretical/"wrong" christians?

Thanks!

Actually, this has been answered before, but I shall summarize.

1. Mormons worship a different "god" than Christians. A "god" which is infinitely contingent upon others for its existence. A "god" which became, meaning that it is neither immutable, nor possessive of the absolute character of eternality, since it potentially could go into non-existence at anytime. A "god" that is limited by his physical body. A "god" who breaks his own laws with impugnity, yet holds others eternally accountable.

2. Mormons recognize a different Jesus than Christians. The Mormon Jesus was also, like their "god," a contingent thing ("intelligence") that god brought into being through a sexual liaison with his wife, spiritually, and then later with his daughter (Mary), physically. Hence, the Mormon Jesus is a created being. Furthermore, the Mormon Jesus has created brothers and sisters, one of them being Satan, was allegedly polygamously married according to some Mormons, had children, and suffered for the sins of humanity in Gethsemane.

3. Mormons recognize a different Holy Spirit than Christians. The Holy Spirit was also an "intelligence" at one time, but was not a person. Instead, prior to becoming a person (meaning once again, he has the potential to be a non-person), it was the "mind" of God and Jesus, and then later became a man without a body. It is not omnipresent, nor omniscient as Christians believe that He is, but is fixed in space and time like the rest of the characters in the Mormon godhood, and is at the mercy of humans to decide what their fate is going be, rather than instrumental in drawing sinners to God, according to His will and purpose.

4. Mormons believe that men and women are gods and goddesses "in embryo," meaning that they have the potential to become just like God in essence. Of course most Mormons will mince words on just what it means to become a "god," stating that they could never become like God himself, but this is usually due to an absence of considering just how their "god" became what he is, his origination, and qualifications that it passed to become what it supposedly is.

5. Mormons embrace a totally different salvific structure than Christians. Mormonism is predicated upon a two-tier system whereby at the lowest level everyone is supposedly redeemed (minus the apostate Mormon who becomes a Christian and openly opposes Mormonism), and at the upper level, godhood is attained. The former level is supposedly based on grace, while the latter is based on works.

6. Mormons have a totally different concept of sin than do Christians, advocating that "in the beginning" sin was a good and courageous act leading to the obedience of the first command to have children. And if you'll simply follow the thread The Mormon Doctrine of Sin, you'll plainly see just how ridiculous the whole Mormon explanation is regarding sin, and how it helped mankind to fall upwards.

7. Mormonism asserts a different concept of the Church than does Christianity, with membership in the Mormon Church being integral to the salvation of any human being. In fact, Mormonism teaches that its church is the "only true church," and all other churches are churches of the devil. Supposedly the Mormon Church has "restored" the primitive church practices and government that the early Christian church had, yet when one considers that there were no presidents, that the apostles main activities were the founding of new churches in areas where a church did not exist, as well as the writing of inspired documents for Christian edification, there was no such thing a Quorum of Twelve or Seventy, there was no Aaronic, nor Melchizedek Priesthoods, and so on, and so forth, one can clearly conclude that whatever the Mormon Church has done, it certainly has not restored the primitive Christian church, nor its practices.

I could go on, but I think just those few things ought to make it quite clear why Mormonism is not considered "mainstream" Christianity, and never will be. Only those too spiritually blind to see would disagree.

 

[Rescued One]

This is a response to a remark saying to prove the apostasy, so i will.
However I am not condeming any other religion or person. I belive that many non-mormons will still be allowed into heaven. Mormons do not belive that only mormons will be granted into heaven, it is not taught in our church. If anyone from the LDS church says that to you then they are ignorant in some of their views, but it does not mean they are a bad person.

So you know more about your beliefs that your Apostle Bruce R. McConkie did? He was ignorant in some of his views? Oh, my. He should have been removed from office!

Bruce R. McConkie (1915-1985) made this statement: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Mormon Doctrine, p.670)

The Bible, on the other hand, teaches salvation is in Jesus alone; "Neither is there salvation in any other [Jesus]: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

 

[Fit4Christ]

This is a response to a remark saying to prove the apostasy, so i will.

Sorry. This doesn't prove much of anything.

However I am not condeming any other religion or person. I belive that many non-mormons will still be allowed into heaven. Mormons do not belive that only mormons will be granted into heaven, it is not taught in our church. If anyone from the LDS church says that to you then they are ignorant in some of their views, but it does not mean they are a bad person.

See GWIT's post on McConkie's quote about people outside the lds church. Are you calling him ignorant? Or because he's now a dead prophet, his words don't mean that much anymore?

One of the many verses in the bible that tell of the apostasy is Acts 3:19-21. This tells of the times of restitution, and times of refreshing that shall come from the presence of the Lord. And the He shall send Jesus Christ, (hmm.. who was at the first vision of Joseph Smith???).

Which version are you talking about? The "official" version, watered down and vastly different than other accounts he gave to other people, 18 years after the fact?

Another verse that says that the second comming will not happen UNTIL a "falling away" occurs, 2 Thess. 2:1-3. This verse alone should be proof alone that an apostasy has occured. If it is not I recomend that you visit this web site of Jeff Lindsay.(just type his name as the adress) for not only the answer to this in great length but also any other question that you have regarding Mormons and our belifes, history, and evidence supporting the Book of Mormon.

Are you saying that Jeff Lindsay is the "official spokesman" for the lds church?

C'mon, I'm sure you can do better.

 

[ST:DS9]

Sorry.
See GWIT's post on McConkie's quote about people outside the lds church. Are you calling him ignorant? Or because he's now a dead prophet, his words don't mean that much anymore?

Which kingdom of heaven are we talking about here?

I don't know what quote you are talking about, but given what has been said in this thread, I 'm going to assume that McConkie said something about non-LDS people would not be going to the Celestial kingdom of heaven, but they would go to the one of the other kingdoms of Heaven that are lower then the Celestial Kingdom.

 

[Tawhano]

pyro457 said:
Another verse that says that the second comming will not happen UNTIL a "falling away" occurs, 2 Thess. 2:1-3. This verse alone should be proof alone that an apostasy has occured.

I realize most of the Mormons who posted here are simply trolls but I feel compelled to add my two cents about the Church falling away. Nowhere does it say the Church will fall away, either in the Bible or the BoM. The falling away is the people falling away not the Church. The Church never went any where. God still had people who were filled with the Holy Spirit (Christians) while a large number of people flocked to religion instead of Christ. They were falling away from the truth. Christians didn’t fall away at all. They were still there. They simply were not seen by the religious groups as being part of the ‘church’ that they created.

 

[Fit4Christ]

Which kingdom of heaven are we talking about here?

I don't know what quote you are talking about, but given what has been said in this thread, I 'm going to assume that McConkie said something about non-LDS people would not be going to the Celestial kingdom of heaven, but they would go to the one of the other kingdoms of Heaven that are lower then the Celestial Kingdom.

See Post #153. This quote in particular:

Bruce R. McConkie (1915-1985) made this statement: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Mormon Doctrine, p.670)

When one says "no salvation" that is taken to mean that we will not be with God, our Father, who art in heaven. Not the MLM version of heaven that the lds church teaches.

 

[disciple00]

pointing out mormon theoligy is like trying to nail down water.... they mince so may words they completely loose their meaning..... all lds please, if you wish to have at least some of my respect, make a stand on something, don't just twist and bend words until you can wiggle out of a theological pinch. all the pointsmade by the christians on this page, were very good and deserve a dirrect answer. man, ya'll sound like a pack of lawyers, contorting words to confuse and beguile people.... shae on you all....

disciple00

 

[Croesus]

Sure, the mormons will stop squirming as soon as the christian churches unite. Why are there baptists, methodists, catholics, unitarians, and so forth? Don't you all believe the same doctrine? You all pull your answers from the bible, so shouldn't you all be in accordance with everything important?

The fact is, there is quite alot of hearsay and incongruence among the LDS. If I were to ask christians a few questions, would I get different answers?

As for the quotes, I don't know where they are from. Who wrote down this quote? When? In what book/magazine/publication was it published? or was it taken from an anti-mormon site? As Al Franken said "Its all in the footnotes". The only one I can look up is the one in "The History of the Church."

I can answer the one from "Mormon Doctrine". Bruce R McConkie was never a prophet of the LDS church. I've heard a rumor that once (jokingly) the prophet of McConkie's time said "There are some things that God has 'revealed' to Elder McConkie that he hasn't to us." Yes this is rumor, but more importantly, apostles do not establish new doctrine. McConkie is often over quoted in my church to back up 'doctrine' and it bothers me. The book "Mormon Doctrine" is infact not doctrine.

 

[feo]

Sure, the mormons will stop squirming as soon as the christian churches unite. Why are there baptists, methodists, catholics, unitarians, and so forth? Don't you all believe the same doctrine? You all pull your answers from the bible, so shouldn't you all be in accordance with everything important?

If you mean "united", as in "in acceptance of each other" then they ARE united. Baptists recognize Catholics as Christians... a Methodist would recognize a Nazarene as a Christian, and so on. But these churches all agree that mormon teaching is NOT Christian.

I dont even see why this bothers the current mormons on this board; their church leaders wanted nothing to do with the "regular" Christians anyways.