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LDS/Mormonism
- Thread starter iolair
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Dang...youd think that other guy would of responded by now, since he said hed be hovering around here nd all
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OK, thanks for holding. It gotlate that evening, and I had to close down the mortuary and go home, but now I'm back.
On with the show...
What I understand is when you say Second Covenant, you are referring to the mission of Jesus Christ.
If that assumption is correct, then by that definition The Book of Mormon is NOT a 3rd covenant, in the same way that the New Testament is NOT the second covenant, it simply talks about it. The Covenant itself is in Christ.
The Book of Mormon contains the history and preachings of a groupof people between approw 600BC and 420+- AD. At it's beginnings, the people lived according to the Law given from God to Moses as this was the standing Law(or First Covenant), with their eyes looking foreward to the coming of Christ. After Christ's ressurection, He Himself came over to this people(the Other Sheep mentioned in John 16:10) to deliver the Message that He had Atoned for our sins and made salvation possible. Thus The BOM is "Another Testament(or witness) of Jesus Christ". It is not "Another Gospel"(as I've explained before a book is not a covenant, it could only talk about one) as some wish us to take it. It is merely another witness.
That brings up a question Ican hear welling up in people's minds, "Why isn't The Bible enough?" To that I say,"Why IS it enough?" "If God had more to say to us that He was saving for the right time, why wouldn't we want to hear it?"
Hope this helps, and sorry about the delay.
On with the show...
What I understand is when you say Second Covenant, you are referring to the mission of Jesus Christ.
If that assumption is correct, then by that definition The Book of Mormon is NOT a 3rd covenant, in the same way that the New Testament is NOT the second covenant, it simply talks about it. The Covenant itself is in Christ.
The Book of Mormon contains the history and preachings of a groupof people between approw 600BC and 420+- AD. At it's beginnings, the people lived according to the Law given from God to Moses as this was the standing Law(or First Covenant), with their eyes looking foreward to the coming of Christ. After Christ's ressurection, He Himself came over to this people(the Other Sheep mentioned in John 16:10) to deliver the Message that He had Atoned for our sins and made salvation possible. Thus The BOM is "Another Testament(or witness) of Jesus Christ". It is not "Another Gospel"(as I've explained before a book is not a covenant, it could only talk about one) as some wish us to take it. It is merely another witness.
That brings up a question Ican hear welling up in people's minds, "Why isn't The Bible enough?" To that I say,"Why IS it enough?" "If God had more to say to us that He was saving for the right time, why wouldn't we want to hear it?"
Hope this helps, and sorry about the delay.
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This new witness is by definition another Gospel,
1) to bring good news, to announce glad tidings
a) used in the OT of any kind of good news
1) of the joyful tidings of God's kindness, in particular,
of the Messianic blessings
b) in the NT used especially of the glad tidings of the coming kingdom of God, and of the salvation to be obtained in it through Christ, and of what relates to this salvation
c) glad tidings are brought to one, one has glad tidings proclaimed to him
d) to proclaim glad tidings
1) instruct (men) concerning the things that pertain to Christian salvation
can you explain how this doesnt conflict with Galatians 1:8? I might as well go out and ask all my questions about Mormonism as of now.
And whats this sheep your talking about?
John 16
10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
I dont see it in there...?
Also, "Why IS it enough?", wouldnt it be enouph since God said he would teach and guide his people by the Holy Spirit?
Thanks for your responses.
1) to bring good news, to announce glad tidings
a) used in the OT of any kind of good news
1) of the joyful tidings of God's kindness, in particular,
of the Messianic blessings
b) in the NT used especially of the glad tidings of the coming kingdom of God, and of the salvation to be obtained in it through Christ, and of what relates to this salvation
c) glad tidings are brought to one, one has glad tidings proclaimed to him
d) to proclaim glad tidings
1) instruct (men) concerning the things that pertain to Christian salvation
can you explain how this doesnt conflict with Galatians 1:8? I might as well go out and ask all my questions about Mormonism as of now.
And whats this sheep your talking about?
John 16
10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
I dont see it in there...?
Also, "Why IS it enough?", wouldnt it be enouph since God said he would teach and guide his people by the Holy Spirit?
Thanks for your responses.
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SOrry, Typo on that reference. Typing at work again and, surprisingly, we've got hymnals all over the place but no Bible anywhere nearby.
Regarding another gospel:
"1) to bring good news, to announce glad tidings
a) used in the OT of any kind of good news
1) of the joyful tidings of God's kindness, in particular,
of the Messianic blessings
b) in the NT used especially of the glad tidings of the coming kingdom of God, and of the salvation to be obtained in it through Christ, and of what relates to this salvation
c) glad tidings are brought to one, one has glad tidings proclaimed to him
d) to proclaim glad tidings
1) instruct (men) concerning the things that pertain to Christian salvation"
The message of The Book of Mormon and the New Testament are the same:
-Men have fallen from God's presence
-We all sin
-Christ has come and given us an opportunity to return to live with Him again because He A)Paid for our sins and B)Made possible the ressurection of the dead
-Our part in all this is to accept Him, love Him, have faith in Him and do the things that He would do in any situation(hence WWJD)
-All will be ressurected, and if we do the above, we will be able to live with Him again
That is the Gospel(good news) of the NT. That is also the gospel(good news) of the Book of Mormon.
Also, "Also, "Why IS it enough?", wouldnt it be enouph(sic) since God said he would teach and guide his people by the Holy Spirit?"
Yup, revelation and prophecy comes by way of the Holy Spirit. Why would God stop sending Apostles and Prophets when it says very clearly that He sent some in the time of the Apostles(again I don't have a Bible handy)? When did He say that we would never again have Prophets? When did He say that the only place He sent Prophets was Europe and Asia? When did He say there wer no other writings done by Prophets?
Regarding another gospel:
"1) to bring good news, to announce glad tidings
a) used in the OT of any kind of good news
1) of the joyful tidings of God's kindness, in particular,
of the Messianic blessings
b) in the NT used especially of the glad tidings of the coming kingdom of God, and of the salvation to be obtained in it through Christ, and of what relates to this salvation
c) glad tidings are brought to one, one has glad tidings proclaimed to him
d) to proclaim glad tidings
1) instruct (men) concerning the things that pertain to Christian salvation"
The message of The Book of Mormon and the New Testament are the same:
-Men have fallen from God's presence
-We all sin
-Christ has come and given us an opportunity to return to live with Him again because He A)Paid for our sins and B)Made possible the ressurection of the dead
-Our part in all this is to accept Him, love Him, have faith in Him and do the things that He would do in any situation(hence WWJD)
-All will be ressurected, and if we do the above, we will be able to live with Him again
That is the Gospel(good news) of the NT. That is also the gospel(good news) of the Book of Mormon.
Also, "Also, "Why IS it enough?", wouldnt it be enouph(sic) since God said he would teach and guide his people by the Holy Spirit?"
Yup, revelation and prophecy comes by way of the Holy Spirit. Why would God stop sending Apostles and Prophets when it says very clearly that He sent some in the time of the Apostles(again I don't have a Bible handy)? When did He say that we would never again have Prophets? When did He say that the only place He sent Prophets was Europe and Asia? When did He say there wer no other writings done by Prophets?
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Question, one mormon told me that its possible to become God like Joseph Smith, is this true?
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to become God is impossible. to become like God is what we strixe for. by that i mean this: made perfect. (or whole, if u will). immortal, and holy. Joseph Smith wasn't a God. he was a normal human being named prophet by God and his only Begotten Son. i hope that answers your question. by the way who told you? (i.e. missionary, bishop, etc.)
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Basically any recource Ive ever read about Mormonism has said that Joseph was divine like Jesus and God...
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that is an extreme extereme. perhaps this will help-
Received the First Vision in answer to his prayer concerning which church to join. Joseph was visited by the Father and the Son in the Sacred Grove in upstate New York. (1820)
Visited five times by the resurrected Moroni who revealed to Joseph the existence of ancient gold plates (from which the Book of Mormon was translated) and instructed him on his role in restoring the gospel. (1823)
Received the gold plates from the angel Moroni at the Hill Cumorah in upstate New York. Also received the Urim and Thummim, which was used in translating the Book of Mormon. (1827)
Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple. Moses, Elias, and Elijah appeared and conveyed priesthood keys.(1836)
Name of the Church-The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saintsgiven by revelation. (1838)
Revelation to build Nauvoo Temple received. Baptism for the dead was introduced as a temple ordinance. (1841)
Joseph and Hyrum Smith martyred at Carthage Jail in Carthage, Illinois. (1844)
Well, there it is. hopefully that will answer your question.
if not: www.lds.org
Received the First Vision in answer to his prayer concerning which church to join. Joseph was visited by the Father and the Son in the Sacred Grove in upstate New York. (1820)
Visited five times by the resurrected Moroni who revealed to Joseph the existence of ancient gold plates (from which the Book of Mormon was translated) and instructed him on his role in restoring the gospel. (1823)
Received the gold plates from the angel Moroni at the Hill Cumorah in upstate New York. Also received the Urim and Thummim, which was used in translating the Book of Mormon. (1827)
Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple. Moses, Elias, and Elijah appeared and conveyed priesthood keys.(1836)
Name of the Church-The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saintsgiven by revelation. (1838)
Revelation to build Nauvoo Temple received. Baptism for the dead was introduced as a temple ordinance. (1841)
Joseph and Hyrum Smith martyred at Carthage Jail in Carthage, Illinois. (1844)
Well, there it is. hopefully that will answer your question.
if not: www.lds.org
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Lifesaver
Fides et Ratio
What I really have trouble with when dealing with Mormonism is how even members of the group themselves cannot say precisely what is doctrine and what isn't.
Some openly defend that God Himself has parents, who were Gods, who have parents and so on, and that the good married Mormons can become Gods when they die.
Others say this is not a doctrine, just a speculation, and that they don't believe in it.
And yet others tell me they can't tell me that because "I'm not ready for it".
The same with God having a physical body or living in a distant planet.
Afterall, is there any official teaching regarding the fates of souls?
Some openly defend that God Himself has parents, who were Gods, who have parents and so on, and that the good married Mormons can become Gods when they die.
Others say this is not a doctrine, just a speculation, and that they don't believe in it.
And yet others tell me they can't tell me that because "I'm not ready for it".
The same with God having a physical body or living in a distant planet.
Afterall, is there any official teaching regarding the fates of souls?
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what you're dealing with is multiple issues. there is no way God has parents. like i said good mormons become like God. see my above statements. as for being ready, that is for u to decide not anyone else. as for having a physical body- not true. and he dosen't live on another planet. more tomorrow.
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Lifesaver
Fides et Ratio
You say that. But other Mormons, either in this forums or in real life, say different things.
For example, when I asked my friend about people becoming Gods, instead of denying it like you have, she said "I can't tell you this; you are not ready" or something to that effect. That already indicates her belief is not "no".
Afterall, if I asked something which she outright disblieved in, like "Was Jesus a woman?", she would have no problem in denying it. Since she didn't deny, there's something there.
For example, when I asked my friend about people becoming Gods, instead of denying it like you have, she said "I can't tell you this; you are not ready" or something to that effect. That already indicates her belief is not "no".
Afterall, if I asked something which she outright disblieved in, like "Was Jesus a woman?", she would have no problem in denying it. Since she didn't deny, there's something there.
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Talking about an old Mormon thread where this Mormon girl was talking about the possiblity of becoming God.
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