LDS/Mormonism

[iolair]

I'm currently setting up a website for online interdominational prayer groups. I've had several LDS express an interest in joining up. Now, I've heard of course that LDS are not "real" Christians in some way, but I'm pretty fuzzy on why. Several web sites turned up in a search have not left me any clearer.

So, why are LDS not considered among mainstream churches? What are their specific doctrinal differences? Should they be considered non-christians or heretical/"wrong" christians?

Thanks!

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

Hello, I am a member of the LDS church. The reasons I have been given for us to not be Christian are debateable. I happen to believe I am a Christian, so take it for what it is worth to you.

The LDS believe in the doctrine of works along with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. We do not believe that we can sit idle with a belief in Christ and be saved. We do believe that man is saved by the grace of God, but that we have to be worthy of that grace by doing good works to glorify God, not ourselves. Many say that we are wrong because of the whole works part, but there are many scriptures that say through grace and many that say faith and works. You decide.

We also, as a core belief, have the doctrine of a Godhead, not a trinity. The Godhead is made up of God the Father, the son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. We believe they are one in purpose and one in unity, not one in personage. It is something that is open for interpretation, because there are many scriptures that can be used to support both.

We believe in the Bible along with the Book of Mormon. We believe them both to be Holy books. Many say that the Bible is the only and final work of God. There are no other scriptures. The Bible says there are sheep that are not of this fold. Also something that is obviously theorized by the Christian community. We believe that refers to the people on the ancient American continent. Thus, the Book of Mormon.

There are many beliefs that differ, but one thing in common. Christ. We believe in Christ. He is our savior. We are a faith centered on the atoning sacrifice of Christ and what he has in store. We believe in a living prophet to guide His church in these days full of turmoil. We believe in Christ, but we are shunned by fellow Christians.

 

[Lifesaver]

As I see it, the biggest thing keeping Mormonis from orthodox Christianity is that they believe in many gods.

Many people living today (God-fearing Mormon men, more precisely) will, according to Mormon theology, become Gods (just like God in everything) with their own universes.
On the top of that, "our" God was once a creature of another God, and so on and so on.

I asked whether this was true to a Mormon friend of mine, and it was one of the things she couldn't answer unless the person was ready (I've found that many things concerning Mormon theology are like that). Of course, not having outright denied the existence of many gods is already an indicative that they might uphold it.

I've seen, though only in the Internet, Mormons openly defend that thesis. Polytheism is contrary to Christianity, however, and thus anyone who believes in it is not a Christian.

There plenty of other very unorthodox beliefs held by them; but if this particular doctrine was left behind, it would be a big advance.

 

[artofwar]

when was the book of mormon written?

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

As far as polytheism is concerned, I have only one God. I have a Father in Heaven who is the father of my spirit and is the being that controls all that we have to do with. I am a monotheist. I personally have only one God.

We believe in eternal progression. That is not to say that one can't have eternal regression also. We have progressed from a spirit being in the spirit world, to a human with flesh and blood and that spirit in this world. It would be ignorant to think that God had nothing greater in mind for us.

You will say that Christ never taught these things. You will say they were made up by Joseph Smith. Maybe Christ was trying to teach people the simple things. Can you imagine Christ trying to teach every principle of the plan of salvation in (according to most scholars) 3 years. He was having a hard enough time getting people to be civil and compassionate. Think about what region of the world this was. They have never had prosperity.

The bottom line is that members are admonished to be Christ-like. Our beliefs on God/Gods is far deeper than "If I am a good boy I can be a God."

Before the earth was created what was God doing? Did he never have any other worlds before this one? Are we the only beings that were created by God? Where did God come from? I don't claim to have all the answers nor do I care for them now. It makes no difference to me in the here and now.

Christ said there was one God. I agree with this. There are no other Gods that I am concerned with. The depth of this concept is hard to understand. But then maybe God was trying to get them to put aside their riches and come unto him. Maybe he was dealing with idol worshiping. Some people would rather spend time watching their television than learn the teachings of Christ.

Christ laid the foundation for his church and suffer and die for the sins of the world. His church was ruined by apostacy. He brought it back to the earth through a living prophet and is bringing the fullness of his gospel to light. I am not the antichrist. I am a man who believes that God has a greater purpose for his children than to send them to earth to sin and then bring them to heaven to be as little children.

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

The Book of Mormon was an ancient record written by prophets on the American continent. The civilization of Christianity was dying off from war and they were burried in the earth. They were manifested to Joseph Smith after an amazing number of visions and visitations by holy messengers. Joseph Smith then translated them. lds.org for a detailed church history.

 

[artofwar]

do you know what year it was formed?

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

I am not in arms length of one. Written around the time of Christ, Compiled and abridged by Mormon and his son Moroni. First published in or around 1830.

 

[Lifesaver]

I understand that, God's Army.

But according to the Bible and Christianity, there is only one God, period. Not only one God with whom we are concerned with.

If you say our God was once a creature like us, created by another God, then he is not God at all, just an exalted creature. God cannot, by definition, have been created.
It is also useless to think of Him in terms of past and future, like the question "what was He doing before the creation?" There is no past nor future for God; He exists in the eternal present.

In closing, a quote from Isaiah:

Isaiah 43:10 You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servants whom I have chosen To know and believe in me and understand that it is I. Before me no god was formed, and after me there shall be none.

PS: if you could answer me a question: what exactly are God's wives? Goddesses? Angels? His own spirit-children? It would be very helpful if you cleared it for me.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

There are no other Gods that I am concerned with.

No other Gods that you are concerned with, but other Gods existing—that is called henotheism. Henotheism is the exclusive worship of one God without denying the existence of other Gods. Polytheism is the theology, henotheism is a practice within polytheism. Just as I believe in many Gods and Goddesses, but worship only one God and one Goddess—makes me a polytheist by theology and a duolater (practitioner of duolatry) by practice.

Mormonism strikes me as the prophet Elijah’s proverbial “skipping between the two branches” (more commonly translated as “halting between the two opinions” ). Why can’t you people make a decision and become either real Christians or real pagans?

The Book of Mormon was an ancient record written by prophets on the American continent. The civilization of Christianity was dying off from war and they were burried in the earth. They were manifested to Joseph Smith after an amazing number of visions and visitations by holy messengers. Joseph Smith then translated them. lds.org for a detailed church history.

If only there were some archæological evidence for this ... as well as the problem of anachronisms, such as gold coins and horses.

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

Why can't YOU PEOPLE stop judging others beliefs and telling us what we are and are not. I didn't come here to fight with you "TRUE CHRISTIANS" or pagans or prove my faith to people who could never recieve it. I came here for posetive conversation. I am willing to answer questions, but I won't be attacked. I didn't come here to attack you either.

 

[IssaEl36]

Mormons And Going Try To Deny This , Go On Line And Get The Mormon Bible ..Click here: Book of Mormon Bible Also Check This Out Click here: Mormon Endowment and Masonry ..At AnyTime They Use Any Verse Go On Line Look It Up In There Mormons Bible Then See How It Compare To The True Wors Of God / Bible , Or That Of A Man Name joseph fielding smith ...This Spirit Child Elevated To Be Amongst The Deities . A Council Meeting Was Held To Decide About The Destiny Of The Devil And His Evil Advocates . A Plan Was Presented To Go To Earth And Rebuild And Then To Send The Evil Spirit Children To Live And Take On Mortal Bodies And To Learn Good From Bad To Alter Their Nature For Good , The Devil Put In His Bid As Savior Of Earth . The Was One Deity That Stoop Up Against Them And Said , '' Why Not Give Them Freedom Of Choice As Other Beings ? '' The Devil Convinced Many Of The Spirit Children That Were Destined To Go To Earth , To Revolt . Now Those Who Stayed Neutral In Decision , Whether To Go To Revolt With The Devil Or Stay With The Other Deities , Were Cursed With Black Skin . This Is One Of The Ways They They Say Nubians/ Black People Came About . In Their Old Teachings They Say Nubians / Blacks Were From The Cures Of Canaan . In Both Cases There's Obviously Racism And It Is Beyound Me , How Any African American Could Belong To This Organization The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints , As They Presently Call Themselves , Which Was Founded On April 6 , 1830 A.D. By Joseph Fielding Smith . The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints Are Putting Commercials On Television In Order To Deceive People Into Thinking They Are Just An Ordinary Christian Group When They Have Their Own Bible By Their Own Self - Proclaimed Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith Who Was Born December 23 ; 1805 A.D. In Sharon , Vermont . He Was Also A Mason Click here: Mormon Endowment and Masonry
According To Their Book Called The Book Of Mormon . Page 66 , Verse 21 - 25 It
Click here: Book of Mormon 2Nephi 5 ; 21 - 25 <> And He Had Caused The Cursing To Come Upon Them , Yea , Even A Sore Cursing , Because Of Their Iniquity For Behold , They Had Hardened Their Hearts Against Him , That They Had Become Like Unto A Flint ; Wherefore , As They Were White , And Exceeding Fair And Delightsome , That They Might Be Enticing Unto My People The Lord God Did Cause A Skin Of Blackness To Come Upon Them , And Thus Saith The Lord God ; I Will Cause That They Shall Be Loathsome Unto Thy People , Save They Shall Repent Of Their Iniquites , And Cursed Shall Be The Seed Of Him That Mixeth With Their Seed ; For They Shall Be Cursed Even With The Same Cursing . And The Lord Spake It . And It Was Done . And Because Of Their Cursing Which Was Upon Them They Did Become An Idle People . Full Of Mischief And Subtlety . And Did Seek In The Wilderness For Beasts Of Prey . And The Lord God Said Unto Me ; They Shall Be A Scourge Unto Thy Seed . To Stir Them Up In Remember Of Me ; And In As Much As They Will Not Remember Me . And Hearken Unto My Works , They Shall Scourge Them Even Unto Destruction .
In The Same Book It State And I Quote ; And The Skins Of The Lamanites Were Dark , According To The Mark Which Was Set Upon Their Fathers. Which Was A Curse Upon Them Because Of Their Transgression And Their Rebellion Against Their Breathren . Who Consisted Of Nephi , Jacob , And Joseph , And Sam , Who Were Just And Holy Men . And Their Brethren Sought To Destroy Them , Therefore They Were Cursed ; And The Lord God Might Preserve His People . That They Might Not Mix And Believe In Incorrect Tradition Which Would Prove Their Destruction . And It Came To Pass That WhoSoEver Did Mingle His Seed With That Of The Lamanites Did Bring The Same Curse Upon His Seed '' .
This Is Just Two Examples Of The Racism Being Taught By The Mormons . We're Not Supposed To See That The Name That They Are Using For Negros Is Lamanites , Which Is A Phonetic Derivative Of The Word Lamentation Meaning '' Wailing , To Move Slow , Or Elegy - A Poem Recited Over The Dead . '' All This Is In Their Book Entitled The Book Of Mormom . They Are Simply Saying That To Have '' Black '' Skin Is A Curse Placed On Them By The '' Lord God ''. First Of All , If They Are Saying That This Is A Divine Revelation . Then Their God Would Know That Nobody On The Planet Is White And Nobody Is Black . People Are Varying From Pink , To Cream , To Beige , To Yellow , To Red . To Brown , To Olive , And Various Complexions But No One Is Actually Black . Their God Should Have Known That , Thus , It Wouldn't Have Been Inside Their Holy Scripture . They Could Have Said , As The Bible Used , Ham , Cush Or Mizraim Or Phut And A List Of Other Names That Directly Apply To Darker Skinned People Or Simply Kedar . And What Is Sad Is That Negroids From Around The World Everyday Are Joining Them , Not Even Knowing That They Are Considered By Them Filthy , Loathsome Beings .
Their Teaching Are Just Plain Ridiculous And They Have No Proof To Back It Up Other Than A Story Saying That These Teaching Were Given To Their Founder Joseph Fielding Smith By An Angel Name Moroni , The Son Of Mormon . When Doing ReSearch On The Name Mormon Itself . You Will Find That Mormon Is A German Word Mormo Meaning '' Bugbear , A Secptre , A Hobgoblin , A Ghoul . A Gargoyle , A Spook , An Ogre . ''
According To The Mormons , Joseph F . Smith , Was Inspired By God , The Father And Jesus Christ Who Appeared To Him Near < Palmyra , New York In 1820 A.D. > They Told Him Not To Join Any Existing Church And To Prepare For An Important Task . Joseph F . Smith Also Said That An Angel By The Name Of '' Moroni '' Who Was Considered The '' Last Nephilian , '' Visited Him Three Years Later On September 21 ; 1823 A.D. And Told Him About [ Golden Plates ] On Which The History Of Early People Of The Western Hemisphere Was Engraved In An Ancient Language . Joseph F . Smith Found Those Plates In 1827 A.D. On A Hill Near Palmyra Called Cumorah . Joseph Smith Was Able To Translate These Plates And He Called It [ The Book Of Mormon Which Was Published In 1830 A.D. Why Isn't The Picture Of The Tablets In Their Book [ The Book Of Mormon ] Instead Of A Cuneiform Tablet From Persia ? Why Haven't The Mormons Been Learning The Ancient Language That Joseph Smith Obviously Knew In Order To Translate These Mystical Tablets ? And Why Do The Mormons Use The King James Version Of The Bible . And Clearly State In [ The Pillars Of Mormonism By Douglas V. Pond On Page 23 And I Quote < '' The Book Of Mormon Is Not The Mormon Bible As Is Sometimes Supposed . It Is One Of The Complimentary Works That . The Mormon Accepts As Scriptures . The Mormons Do Not Believe That The Reavelation Of God Were Confined To Ancient Israel . He Does Not Believe That The Loving Father Would Restrict His Communications To One Part Of His Family To One Time Of History Or To One Land . This Same Man Then Can Turn It Around And Say That This Loving God Does Restreict His Grace To One Race . Namely The Canaanite , This Is Simply A Canaanite Trying To Find A Place In The IsraeliteHistory , Not Satisfied With His Findings Created His Own Interpretation To Give The Anglo Saxon Protestants A Place In The Hebrew Heaven . [ Why Then Do They Use Greek Expressions Like Church , Christ , Christian , God , And Steal Names From The Bible Such As Jacob And Use The Word Jew And Abraham And Isaac And Many More Biblical Names ? Yet They Openly Admit , As You Just Read . That They Don't Accept What The Bible Say About What Yashua Says In Matthew 15 ; 24 , And I
Quote ; '' But He Answered And Said , I Am Not Sent But Unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel , '' Now Look At Matthew 10 ; 5 - 6 And I Quote ; These Twelve Jesus Sent Forth And Commanded Them Saying , Go Not Into The Way Of The Genitles And Into Any City Of The Samaritans Enter Ye Not , But Go Rather To The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel .
Then Again Jesus Makes The Statement In Matthew 15 ; 24 , Above From The Book Pillars Of Mormonism Click here: Mormonism /Click here: Occultic, Magic and Masonic Influence in Early Mormonism/Click here: Q & A: Is Mormonism the same as Christianity? Pillars Of Mormonism About The Book Of The Mormon , He Openly Confesses That He Is Not An Israelite , Making Him According To The Bible , A Gentile . And The Bible Clearly States That Jesus Was Of The Seed Of David . The King Of Israel In John 7 ; 42 And I Quote ; Hath Not The Scripture Said That Christ Cometh Of The Seed Of David And Out Of The Town Of Bethlehem Where David Was ? So He Openly Admits To The Christian World That He Goes Against The Laws And Words And Commandments Of Jesus And Makes His Own Story Up To Try To Justify Gentiles Being Accepted . And They Call Their Book The Book Of Mormon Another Testament Of Jesus Christ . And In The Title Page It Reads '' The Book Of Mormon An Account Written By The Hand Of Mormon Upon Plates Taken From The Plates Of Nephi . ''' Beneath That It '' ... Wherefore It Is An Abridgement Of The Record Of The People Of Nephi '' And Also '' Of The Lamanites - Written To The Lamanites Who Are A Remnant Of The House Of Israel ; And Also The Jews And The Gentiles ... Then On Page 199 Of The Same Book Under Lamanite It Reads '' Descendants Of Laman '' Who They Say Is The Eldest Son Of Lehi . They Later Say '' Laman , Any Person Who Rejects The Gospel ( See Also Ammon , People Of Lamanitish ) On Page 206 Of The Same Book Under Lehi - Hebrew Prophet Who Lead His Followers To The Promise Land In Western Hemisphere . Lehi Son Of Zoram . Then In The Book The Book Of Mormon I Quote '' And Their Brethren Sought To Destroy Them , Therefore They Were Cursed ; And The Lord God Set A Mark Upon Them . Yea , Upon Laman And Lemuel ., And Also The Sons Of Ishmael And Ishmaelitish Women . ''' Now Look .... '' And The Skins Of The Lamanites Were Dark According To The Mark Which Was Set Upon Their Fathers, Which Was A Curse Upon Them Because Of Their Transgression And Rebellion Against Their Brethren , Who Consisted Of Nephi , Jacob , And Joseph And Sam Who Were Just And Holy Men . ( So Here He Tells You That The Darker People Are The Children Of Israel And That Lehi Was A Peophet Of The Hebrews , So He Has The Black As The Original Hebrews , And Himself As Not A Hebrew Or Israelite . He Would Be Classified As A Gentile , And According To Galatians 2 ; 15 And I Quote '' We [ Who Are ] Jews By Nature And Not Sinners Of The Gentiles '' So Of Course He Would [ Claim Anybody Who Is Not A Mormon Is A Gentile ... And Totally Ignoring The Bible And The Teaching Of Christ Jesus Who They Say Imspired Them ] The Contrsdictions And Mistakes Go On And On . Finally We Add From The Book Of Mormon Chapter 3 verse 8 - 9 '' O My Brethren , I Fear That Unless Ye Shall Repent Of Your Sins That Their Skins Will Be Whiter That Yours , When Ye Shall Be Brought With Them Before The Throne Of God . Wherefore , A Commandment I Give Unto You , Which Is The Wor Of God . That Ye Revile No More Against The Because Of The Darkness Of Their Skins ; Neither Shall Ye Revile Against Them Because Of Their Filthiness . And Remember That Their Filthiness Came Because Of Their Fathers '' ( This Is Sheer Racism , Not To Mention What Would Would Be Called Anti - Semetism . HowEver , When It Comes Down To Women Joseph Smith And His Bother , Hyurm Accept The Muslem Concept Of Polygany . That Is They Believe They Can Have More Than One Wife . And In Fact , Both He And His Brother , Hyrum , Was Arrested And Taken To Carthage , The County Seat For Engaging In Polygamy . And Eventually Joseph Smith And His Brother Were Shot To Death June 27 , 1844 A.D. By His Own Followers , The Mormoms After He Attempted To Run For President . ) Now After His Death , In The Year 1978 A.D. In Order To Attract Blacks , The Mormons Claim They Got A New Revelation From God Telling Them To Include Blacks Saying That They Had Been Instructed By Revelation To Strike Down The Churches Former Policy Of Excluding Black Men From The Priesthood . Thus Ends The Story Of This Ridiculous Cult And Their Ridiculous Belief ,

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

Wow, did you write that? I would try to read through it before posting next time. That was some of the most difficult reading I have seen in a while. I find it hard to comment on a post like this because it is so messy and false. Sorry you hate my religion so much. I guess I can only hope that hate doesn't keep you from growing closer to Christ. No, I'm sure in your eyes Christ would condone hate against those hellish mormons. Good luck with all that. If you don't believe in Christ, good luck with that too.

 

[Zeddicus]

Christ laid the foundation for his church and suffer and die for the sins of the world. His church was ruined by apostacy. He brought it back to the earth through a living prophet and is bringing the fullness of his gospel to light. I am not the antichrist. I am a man who believes that God has a greater purpose for his children than to send them to earth to sin and then bring them to heaven to be as little children.

Ok..this is a well known belief of Mormons, but I have never heard one iota substiantial objective evidence to back this statement up when I have debated this issue with Mormons. Can you possibly rectify this please?

 

[I Robby...]

Gods army...I too am a fellow LDS member. I know that this is the true church of Jesus Christ and we only want the "True Christians"(who might I say cant agree on anything) to open there eyes. I know all our doctrines and the "true christian" doctrines as well. We are the only one that can be right. I love them as much as anybody else but they are going to hammer you and I. I leave you with this......Luke 6:22-23..."Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast our your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven; for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets."

This is not a Bash. If I throw Poo back I still get it on my hands.
GOD BLESS (yeah, same God...Big G and all.)

 

[Zeddicus]

Gods army...I too am a fellow LDS member. I know that this is the true church of Jesus Christ and we only want the "True Christians"(who might I say cant agree on anything) to open there eyes. I know all our doctrines and the "true christian" doctrines as well. We are the only one that can be right.

If so, then prove it...show, for a fact with scripture, that you are the only ones that can be right. Your statement is no better than a person just simply stating you are wrong and are not Christian.

This is not a Bash. If I throw Poo back I still get it on my hands.

You better wash your hands then, because merely stating it is not a bash does not make it so and saying equitable sorts of things about other religions that you feel would be bashing your religion but in a nice cleaned up way does not make it any less of a bash.

GOD BLESS (yeah, same God...Big G and all.)

No very different Gods..

One has only been one for a certain amount of time and is the offspring of other "Gods", the other is an eternal God.

One includes Jesus in His essence, the other Jesus is merely the offspring of Him.

One has a Heavenly Mother at His side, the other has no other beings that can even stand on the same level as Him.

Among many others...

Mormons, even if they have the same names for their deities, do not worship the same God as mainstream Christianity in any way, shape, form or fashion.

 

[Dark_Lite]

For some reason I just get all giddy inside when people have an explanation for everything that doesn't agree with their views.

 

[I Robby...]

I have the Gold plates. Wanna see them?

 

[I Robby...]

All you need to do is bring the 10 commandments.....or the ark of the covenant and well swap out for a week or two.

 

[I Robby...]

what does the bible say about asking for signs? Hmmm.....