Law of sin and death?

[Tone]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
What exactly does this mean?

The "letter of the law" was the ordinances (the dos and don'ts) of Torah without a relationship with the Father. This one-dimensional view could only lead to increasing rebellion.

The "Spirit of the law" is having a relationship with the Father and seeing that He is good and that He has ordered everything for our well-being. This is an holistic understanding of Torah, which bears the fruit of willful obedience.

Ephesians 3
"17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Then you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to comprehend the length and width and height and depth of His love, 19and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Then you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to comprehend the length and width and height and depth of His love, 19and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God"

 

[FireDragon76]

That verse I gave shows how to sin not here and now. This is by abiding in Christ . If we abide not we are in the flesh then and sin and not in the spirit.

I'm not arguing against abiding in Christ. But I don't think I understand the implications of that in the way you do. And given this is the Messianic part of the forum, I don't think it would be friendly to turn this into a lengthy debate about my religion.

 

[LoveofTruth]

A

Proof texting is not really sound biblical theology.

And I did not proof text , Johns whole discussion is about sinning not and abiding in Christ. The context is exactly right and I rightly divided the word.

Many writers take text from all over the bible to speak of truths. This is allowed biblically.

 

[visionary]

So if someone has an emotional affair, but does not have sex, they are liable for the death penalty?

Emotions do riots with the body, cancer is one event that can happen because of the stress. Sin is invasive, and if it is a mental/emotional state, then whether it is in the heart, liver or stomach, the stress of this sin will reveal itself. Not all death penalties are the same.

 

[Dave-W]

Not all death penalties are the same.

Hmmmm. Good point.

 

[FireDragon76]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.​

What exactly does this mean? According to Torah:

Leviticus 20:10
‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.​

Does this mean the death penalty is off the table? I know our Lord let a woman caught "in the very act" off the death penalty hook on 2 grounds: 1 - no one would testify against her and 2 - no one grabbed the man.

Jesus honored the law without insisting that the death penalty was necessarily appropriate. I doubt whether another man being present would have changed anything about his actions. Jesus elevated discourse about the Law by insisting that true judgement in matters of life and death belongs to the one without sin.

So how does that relate to this?

Matthew 5:28
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

Is that person liable to the death penalty?

Not necessarily from secular authorities... but from God. Jesus is warning people about hypocrisy and people that insist that only the surface meaning of the Law has any application to their lives.

Our historic position was that the death penalty was acceptable if it is proportional to the crime, it's simply a means to restrain and discourage civil evil. Now days many of us are concerned with the fairness aspects in a country where racism is alive and well, and where poverty influences who ends up living an dying when they face the court system.

 

[visionary]

Jesus honored the law without insisting that the death penalty was necessarily appropriate. I doubt whether another man being present would have changed anything about his actions. Jesus elevated discourse about the Law by insisting that true judgement in matters of life and death belongs to the one without sin.



Not necessarily from secular authorities... but from God. Jesus is warning people about hypocrisy and people that insist that only the surface meaning of the Law has any application to their lives.

Our historic position was that the death penalty was acceptable if it is proportional to the crime, it's simply a means to restrain and discourage civil evil. Now days many of us are concerned with the fairness aspects in a country where racism is alive and well, and where poverty influences who ends up living an dying when they face the court system.

"weightier matters of the law".. yeah you will be measured... Yes the penalty will match the crime. Millstone around your neck indicate which crime you committed. Not all crimes are committed to hanging, nor are all crimes committed to stoning. Fire burns up sin, and the body with the most sin last the longest in the eternal flames. Sodom and Gomorrah got fire and brimstone.

Last chance is like the plagues.
Ezekiel 38:22
And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.​

What exactly does this mean? According to Torah:

Leviticus 20:10
‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.​

Does this mean the death penalty is off the table? I know our Lord let a woman caught "in the very act" off the death penalty hook on 2 grounds: 1 - no one would testify against her and 2 - no one grabbed the man.

So how does that relate to this?

Matthew 5:28
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

Is that person liable to the death penalty?

What did Jesus say when they caught the woman in adultery? Who is allowed to cast the first stone? The answer is in John 8:7

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

OK then the death penalty stands in adultery cases.

You who make yourself the Judge, have you looked at a woman with lust?

 

[klutedavid]

1 John 3:6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

I will raise you on that hand.

1 John 1:8-10
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

 

[Dave-W]

What did Jesus say when they caught the woman in adultery? Who is allowed to cast the first stone? The answer is in John 8:7

“Without sin” in that context (read the legal rulings of Judea in that day) meant not complicit in that sin.

 

[Dave-W]

You who make yourself the Judge, have you looked at a woman with lust?

That is where it gets dicey. Both man and woman are to be killed. SO if only one of them is lusting?

 

[FireDragon76]

“Without sin” in that context (read the legal rulings of Judea in that day) meant not complicit in that sin.

James 2:10 comes to mind, though. I don't think its merely about adultery.

 

[visionary]

What did Jesus say when they caught the woman in adultery? Who is allowed to cast the first stone? The answer is in John 8:7

When Judgment day comes, we will all stand before God and He will judge. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[visionary]

That is where it gets dicey. Both man and woman are to be killed. SO if only one of them is lusting?

In this case, it is far beyond thinking and it is the actual act itself and both parties involved are included.

 

[Dave-W]

In this case, it is far beyond thinking and it is the actual act itself and both parties involved are included.

But that flies in the common understanding of “lust” in Matt 5 as being any sexual feeling or desire outside of marriage.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

“Without sin” in that context (read the legal rulings of Judea in that day) meant not complicit in that sin.

So everyone there had committed adultery, because everyone dropped their rocks. LOL

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

That is where it gets dicey. Both man and woman are to be killed. SO if only one of them is lusting?

No. I'm asking YOU. Have YOU ever looked at a woman with lust?

 

[Dave-W]

No. I'm asking YOU. Have YOU ever looked at a woman with lust?

I think everyone has done that. Yes.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

I think everyone has done that. Yes.

So you're guilty of adultery. According to your own judgment, you should be stoned. Now who should stone you?