Law of sin and death?

[Maria Billingsley]

I am talking purely physical matters.

We are now under the New Covenant so most of what is written in the 613 Mitzvot can not be exercised or practiced as Jesus Christ of Nazareth fulfilled the OT Law with His New Law and New Creation. But lets not get into a debate about it, we do not and have not agreed on this.
Blessings

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Dave-W]

That was the instruction given by Moses but not the instruction of the Lord.

Be careful of that.
What was written by Moses was/is the instruction of the Lord.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Leviticus 20:10
‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.​

Does this mean the death penalty is off the table? I know our Lord let a woman caught "in the very act" off the death penalty hook on 2 grounds: 1 - no one would testify against her and 2 - no one grabbed the man.

So how does that relate to this?

Matthew 5:28
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.​

What exactly does this mean? According to Torah:

Hi I think the laws of sin and death are established in the Garden with the fall of Adam as in the day you eat from the tree of knowledge you will surely die. This is the death that Paul is talking about in Romans 8. The Levitical Laws on stoning to death for moral offenses was installed as a deterrent from the whole society from being perverted and corrupted and we see their history of allowing moral sin to run amok was always parallel to forsaking the LORD their God and going after false Gods.
When Jesus confronted this woman she was by law deemed guilty of a stoning worthy offense. This is similar to David being exposed by Nathan the prophet of murder and adultery. Psalm 51 is the amazing prayer of David's repentance. The LORD forgave David. Now this woman was similarly exposed and Jesus was tested as to what He would do. He stooped down to write in the dirt and scripture does not record what he wrote but he challenged them as to who could throw the 1st stone would be the one without no sin. they all left as jesus wrote but no doubt what he wrote was bringing their own guilt to the forefront and one by one beginning with the older they left. Jesus asked where were her accusers and he told her he did not condemn her but to go and sin no more. Jesus was brought the paralyzed man and said that his sins were forgiven. Then he said which is easier to say your sins are forgiven or to say rise up and walk; so you know the son of man has authority to forgive sins I say rise up and walk. This is the authority over the laws of sin and death that Jesus holds. he did not come to condemn the world but to save it.

 

[Dave-W]

Brian - that is the most sensible answer I have heard so far. Thanks.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

cool Ive seen several of your posts on personal situations that I did answer because you had said exactly what I would have said so I moved on. I have often strayed from the idea that the measure you judge is the measure you will be judged under. We all can identify with this woman and our very souls depend on Him saying I do not condemn you. Oh the greatness of the mercy we all have access to. Forgive us as we forgive others, Amen.

 

[ralliann]

So if someone has an emotional affair, but does not have sex, they are liable for the death penalty?

This seems to me, to speak to carrying out the desire, is sin to death?

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: {evil: or, evils }
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Dave-W]

This seems to me, to speak to carrying out the desire, is sin to death?

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: {evil: or, evils }
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I do not believe James was talking about capital punishment there.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Does this mean the death penalty is off the table?

Immediate stoning fell off when Christ came to us. However, for the non christian, yes it does hold the death penalty, nothing new there. But for the Christian who is truly repentant, and asks forgiveness, no, there is no death penalty for that particular sin at that particular time.

We must try not to sin but if we do, we all know Christ came to take care of that for us, as long as we are sincerely trying.

 

[FireDragon76]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.​

What exactly does this mean? According to Torah:

Leviticus 20:10
‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.​

Does this mean the death penalty is off the table? I know our Lord let a woman caught "in the very act" off the death penalty hook on 2 grounds: 1 - no one would testify against her and 2 - no one grabbed the man.

So how does that relate to this?

Matthew 5:28
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

Is that person liable to the death penalty?

The "law of sin and death" should be understood in its immediate context within Romans, since Paul is trying to explain the significance of the Gospel within the pastoral context of a community very much divided by culture and religious traditions. It has more to do with Paul's own argument about it all starting in the Garden, with God's promise that the day that Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would die. In Paul's mind, sin and death are a law unto themselves that follows from the universal disobedience of humanity, and something that is a plight for both Jew and gentile.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.​

What exactly does this mean? According to Torah:

Leviticus 20:10
‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.​

Does this mean the death penalty is off the table? I know our Lord let a woman caught "in the very act" off the death penalty hook on 2 grounds: 1 - no one would testify against her and 2 - no one grabbed the man.

So how does that relate to this?

Matthew 5:28
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

Is that person liable to the death penalty?

I understand that expression “the law of sin and death” referring to the old covenant of the law of Moses. We read how we are dead through the law and how the law condemns and is a ministration of death.

Consider,

2 Corinthians 3:7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:..9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.”

Galatians 2:19. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.”

Romans 7:9. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.10. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.12. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.13. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.”

 

[FireDragon76]

I understand that expression “the law of sin and death” referring to the old covenant of the law of Moses. We read how we are death through the law and how the law condemns and is a ministration of death.

Paul is not speaking of the Mosaic covenant. Torah is holy and good for Paul, but it is insufficient to justify a person before God. What is unholy is when people use it to exclude people from the New Covenant. That's why he was so bitterly divided with Peter, for Paul the secetarianism Peter demonstrated was a denial of the significance of Christ.

This is one frequent misunderstanding of my own religious tradition, and one that many evangelicals simply misunderstand in a desire to reduce the Christian life to something shallowly preachable, a bumper sticker type theology.

 

[FireDragon76]

The Law ministering death is not a bad thing, though... death is our due as sinners and just punishment for Adam's transgression. So the "old man" dies through the ministration of God's holy law, and a new man is raised with Christ.

Again, this is one thing many American evangelicals simply do not understand. They want to pretend God's law does not reflect something eternal about God's will for humanity, and this is simply a mistake. Jesus summarizes the law with the two great commandments, and that law will never pass away. It is part of Christ's own character, he fulfilled it, he did not abolish it.

 

[Tone]

This seems to me, to speak to carrying out the desire, is sin to death?

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: {evil: or, evils }
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Same verse I was going to use. Adultery and every other sin still does lead to death...whether it is the ultimate death that unrepentant man is under even now, or whether we live in a society that punishes those who commit sin by the death penalty. Either way, sinful man will reap what he sows.

 

[Tone]

Immediate stoning fell off when Christ came to us. However, for the non christian, yes it does hold the death penalty, nothing new there. But for the Christian who is truly repentant, and asks forgiveness, no, there is no death penalty for that particular sin at that particular time.

We must try not to sin but if we do, we all know Christ came to take care of that for us, as long as we are sincerely trying.

But a believer may commit adultery and if he/she lives in a society where it is punishable by death, they may receive that death penalty.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The Law ministering death is not a bad thing, though... death is our due as sinners and just punishment for Adam's transgression. So the "old man" dies through the ministration of God's holy law, and a new man is raised with Christ.

Again, this is one thing many American evangelicals simply do not understand. They want to pretend God's law does not reflect something eternal about God's will for humanity, and this is simply a mistake. Jesus summarizes the law with the two great commandments, and that law will never pass away. It is part of Christ's own character, he fulfilled it, he did not abolish it.

..Is abolished. Scripture corrects you here

2 Corinthians 3:13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:”

Also

We read the proper use of the law and it is not made fora righteous man

1 Timothy 1:5. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:6. From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;7. Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,10. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.”

 

[GodsGrace101]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.​

What exactly does this mean? According to Torah:

Leviticus 20:10
‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.​

Does this mean the death penalty is off the table? I know our Lord let a woman caught "in the very act" off the death penalty hook on 2 grounds: 1 - no one would testify against her and 2 - no one grabbed the man.

So how does that relate to this?

Matthew 5:28
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

Is that person liable to the death penalty?

I learned that the law kills,
but the spirit gives life.

Jesus said we are to do MORE than the pharisees.
They did their acts outwardly...ringing the bell when making a donation...praying out loud, etc.

Jesus said it's our heart condition that counts,
Death came through Adam (he was supposed to live forever)...
Spirit came through Jesus (He who believe in Him will never die). Spirit is life.

 

[FireDragon76]

..Is abolished. Scripture corrects you here

2 Corinthians 3:13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:”

Also

We read the proper use of the law and it is not made fora righteous man

1 Timothy 1:5. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:6. From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;7. Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,10. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.”

But we are not by nature righteous people, we are sinners that have our righteousness reckoned to us. It is an alien righteousness, and not properly our own. You cannot neatly resolve the tensions in the Christian life between sin and grace, since they are a dialectic that will not be resolved in the manner you suggest until we are in the presence of God and have died to the flesh once and for all, quite literally.

Therefore, the Law still has a place in the Christian life, to remind us of what sin is, and our continued need for a Savior.

 

[LoveofTruth]

But we are not by nature righteous people, we are sinners that have our righteousness reckoned to us. It is an alien righteousness, and not properly our own. You cannot neatly resolve the tensions in the Christian life between sin and grace, since they are a dialectic that will not be resolved until we are in the presence of God and have died to the flesh once and for all, quite literally.

1 John 3:6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

 

[FireDragon76]

1 John 3:6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

Proof texting is not really sound biblical theology.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Proof texting is not really sound biblical theology.

That verse I gave shows how to sin not here and now. This is by abiding in Christ . If we abide not we are in the flesh then and sin and not in the spirit.