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Law of sin and death?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Dave-W, May 6, 2019.

  1. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Does God give everyone the convictions via Holy Spirit even without knowledge?
     
  2. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Have I or any man on this MJ forum constrained you to be circumcised? You do understand that we honor Torah here? In other words this is a "Torah friendly" forum. If you are opposed to observing "circumcision on the 8th day" you may need increase you faith; faith is based on the law.
     
  3. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    Very false theology.

    This is why it is very important not to form a doctrine without taking the whole of scripture into account. You can not understand Romans 2 apart from Romans 3. Which is what you just did.

    It could not have been more clear. First to the Jew while not essential or even connected to salvation it was very much a part of their Hebraic calling. Second, even in her unbelief God will honor his promise to Israel. God actually set up the covenant that way in Genesis 15.

    God alone made covenant with Abraham without requiring him to do the same. Instead he put him in a deep sleep. This covenant of grace enables God to bless Israel even if she is in unbelief. Unlike the new covenant the covenant of circumcision was not a covenant that promised eternal life.

    It was specifically between Abraham and his natural seed. And to this day God honors his promise to Israel through circumcision. The Jewish people are blessed despite their rejection of Yeshua, there has always been a faithful remnant, of Jews.
     
  4. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    When I break a contract with google who has millions of contracts on every individual who wished to operate under google laws, I am the one that will be outside of the world of google. So it is with God's covenant, those who break the covenant by breaking the laws of the covenant are outside of God's chosen people. God's chosen people are those who abide by His laws.
     
  5. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Yet everyone has broken God’s law and all the Men under the covenant broke the covenant

    And we read ,

    Hebrews 8:7. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:9. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord...13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”
     
  6. Mercy74

    Mercy74 Mercy Messianic Judaism

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    Google may even allow you to "renew" or make new your contract if you agree to abide by the law.
     
  7. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    I understand Romans 2,3

    But you need to understand this

    Romans 9:30. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.32. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;”

    My theology is so far very sound It has not been corrected in here yet. Stick with Paul’s words from Galatians and other parts about the law and hopefully it will be seen what he is really talking about

    Also consider this

    2 Corinthians 3:6. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
     
  8. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    You seem to think that the big difference between the old and new, I will tell you it is Sunday.... While the difference in priesthood, high priest, temple services, etc are what is stated in Hebrews that have changed. The covenant is now not of stone but of the heart. Sunday is not biblical. It is the only law that has the seal of God in it. Sabbath has the territory, the owner, and the authority written into it. It is the only law the law breakers really work hard of breaking while teaching the value of the other ten have not changed. No Jew wants a gentile to keep the Sabbath. they will out and out say that gentiles should not even try. If they try, they will say the failed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  9. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Exactly...
     
  10. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    You have not proven you understand Romans at all.

    Jeremiah 31
    “Behold, days are coming” —it is a declaration of Adonai—
    “when I will make a new covenant[d]
    with the house of Israel
    and with the house of Judah—
    31
    not like the covenant
    I made with their fathers
    in the day I took them by the hand
    to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they broke My covenant, though I was a husband to them.”
    it is a declaration of Adonai. 32
    “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days” —it is a declaration of Adonai—
    “I will put My Torah within them. Yes, I will write it on their heart.[e]
    I will be their God
    and they will be My people. 33
    No longer will each teach his neighbor
    or each his brother, saying: ‘Know Adonai,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest.”
    it is a declaration of Adonai. “For I will forgive their iniquity, their sin I will remember no more.”[f]


    Acts 21:20
    Not only did a large number of Jews believe in Yeshua they never stopped honoring the Torah. They never thought of themselves as any less Jewish or that they were in anyway part of a new religion. Which is what your false theology does.
     
  11. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    .
     
  12. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    Even more so that covenant is not the covenant of circumcision. You conflate the two and call God a liar by teaching it's not everlasting.
     
  13. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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    Binyamin hadnt even been born yet,

    The midrash ole shaul is speaking of here concerns more than mere personal interpretation.

    Two swords youngin
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  14. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    It was only everlasting if they kept it perfectly but only Christ Jesus brought everlasting life for he is eternal life.
     
  15. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Hebrews 8:6-13. And 2 Cor 3:6-15

    Consider with prayer
     
  16. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    And yet that is not what God said is it?

     
  17. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Galatians 5:3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.4. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
     
  18. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    Stop teaching your false theology. You have proven you do not consider the word of God given Abraham.
     
  19. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 17:7 Yes, I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your seed after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, in order to be your God and your seed’s God after you.

    9 God also said to Abraham, “As for you, My covenant you must keep, you and your seed after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant that you must keep between Me and you and your seed after you: all your males must be circumcised. 11 You must be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and this will become a sign of the covenant between Me and you.
     
  20. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    I am speaking of the covenant with Moses and the people.

    The Seed of Abraham is promised life for that Seed is Christ in him and in all who come by faith as Scripture shows

    “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.He saith not, And to seeds,as of many; but as of one,And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say,that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot dis annul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, itis no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise...29 Andif ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

    Romans 4:13. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.14. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:”


    The promise is of faith not the law
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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