KJV Alone?

[tall73]

The Godhead is in reference to the Trinity or triune nature of God. Father, Son and Spirit.

I think it is fair to say in Christian circles the word has that connotation. However, the word is a holdover from middle English that originally meant Godhood. The question to be examined is if the Greek word that is translated as Goodhead in the KJV has these Trinitarian connotations.

And here is where we hit a bit of a snag with the usage you posted. The KJV translators did not make any attempt to translate a given Greek word with only one English word. In other words, they may render the same Greek word by three different English words in different contexts if it suited them. And in the same way they might use the same English word to translate multiple Greek words. This is outlined and defended in the "Translators to the Reader", and if you like I can post the text of this discussion.

Now the reason that comes into play here is that the texts you quote which use the word "Godhead" in the KJV are not all actually containing the same Greek word used in Acts 17. And there are other texts that do use the same Greek word, but the KJV translators did not render them as "Godhead"

You can verify this if you like either by looking up the Greek or just by using a text keyed to Strongs.

Here is the word:

Strongs
G2304
θεῖος
theios
thi'-os
From G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

And here are the three occurrences of this word in the KJV.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Notice in the other two instances the emphasis is not on the Trinity. It is simply rendered "divine" by the KJV.

In the same way the text in Acts is speaking to the Greeks about the nature of the divine. They saw the divine in hosts of beings, and made idols to it. He says, you shouldn't think the divine is like gold, etc.

In other words, he is starting where they are at with their notions for the divine, and that even they should recognize that the divine is not like physical things. But then he goes on to speak of Christ and God's raising Him from the dead and makes an appeal on the basis of the gospel.

So we see from the other renderings of this word in the KJV that it is not at all beyond bounds to translate it this way in Acts 17.

Now in Col 2:9 where a different word is used the same sense is retained in the NKJV as in the KJV:

9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Becoming a believer in Jesus Christ causes divisions and it may cost some friendships. Does that mean that I wouldn't want to follow Jesus? I do not care what the world thinks, I do not care what is popular. I do not care what anyone thinks about my decision to follow Jesus Christ nor do I care what anyone thinks about my decision to choose the KJB as the preserved word of God. My beliefs are not swayed by popular opinion. My beliefs come from God's word. I believe I have God's word as He has preserved it for me and do not feel the need to study from any other bible. I know the agenda of the other "Modern" versions and I want no part of it.

I have edited this post to say that I agree with what you have said here and just wanted to clarify my position. It is sad that you are all too correct in what you have shown as a popular view among many people today, including a number of Christians.

Many claim to be following Jesus when most of the time they are doing everything they can to go with the flow and not ruffle any feathers (except for the politically correct attacks against godly Christians). Standing for truth will bring hatred because sinners love lies until they get sick of them and are ready to seek God's mercy

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I have looked in to what texts have been used and although they did use the TR they also used the corrupted Alexandrian texts. I prefer to read a bible that throws away all corrupted text and contradictory text. Just the word of God and not the philosophy of the Greeks.

The scribes who made copies had rules of perfection so meticulous and demanding that the laziness of internet intellectualism and spell check typing will cause a person to pass out if they even think about being so disciplined in making perfect copies. The people entrusted with those copies defended them with their lives, burying them if they had to and leaving them in God's hands. God himself protected His word from corruption. There have always been many corrupters and there has always been one line kept free of corruption and William Tyndale committed his life to God knowing he would probably be killed for holding to that line in obedience to God, and they burned him at the stake. They failed to get their hands on Tyndale's God blessed and protected word, Rogers stole it away before the wicked anti-Bible forces found it, and he too was later killed for his determination to serve God by protecting God's word. As Tyndale was being burned at the stake, He prayed loudly "Lord, open the King's eyes", and against the counsel and advice of the majority of regional and religious rulers, King James commanded one more perfect translation. The heart of the King is in God's hands and He turns it whichever way He pleases, and in answer to Tyndales prayer which was in agreement with God's will to bring His word into English, God answered Tyndales prayer and Tydale's heroism earned him the well deserved title of being the hero of the reformation and he was heralded throughout Europe.

No such evidence of God's hand exists in even the smallest of matters, let alone the life or death dedication of martyrs who got the death they did not fear when they were obeying God to bring His word to the English speaking world authorized by God.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Dude... What don't you understand about the following :

The ESV denies the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ in Philippians 2:6!

Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" KJV
King James Bible says that Jesus did not think it robbery to be equal with God.

Philippians 2:6 "who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped," ESV
Modern versions say that Jesus didn't think being equal with God was a thing to be grasped.

Seriously, I'm getting bored of you people.

They become boring because they repeatedly say the same worn out things as they try to lead you down never-ending rabbit trails running away from the simple common sense logic and facts you are presenting. That's why they love "textual criticism", because it ignores the facts which prove modern versions are from evil sources and by their own words in black and white English they prove themselves as being devilishly deviant imposter Bibles

 

[Goodbook]

Its not so much trinity with the empahis on three or trio..its the divinity of God..Jesus is divine. Holy Spirit is divine. God our heavenly father is divine. In their natures.

 

[Goodbook]

Also they are one. Holy means whole or one..you cant divide them. One cant truly function without the other. You see this in the Bible. That when all together, things happen. Jesus could not do anything without praying to father, without the holy spirit working in him, he was only a man.
Many People thought he was only a man touched by God rather than actually really The SON of God.

This realisation we can catch a glimpse of in the transfiguration.

Well i dont want to say too much else you can all read your bibles (hoping you got real ones) and figure out for yourselves.

 

[John Robie]

They become boring because they repeatedly say the same worn out things as they try to lead you down never-ending rabbit trails running away from the simple common sense logic and facts you are presenting. That's why they love "textual criticism", because it ignores the facts which prove modern versions are from evil sources and by their own words in black and white English they prove themselves as being devilishly deviant imposter Bibles

He was responding to me. I did not bring up anything related to textual criticism. All I am asking is that someone showcase doctrine that is in the KJV that cannot be found in the modern translations.

 

[John Robie]

Its not so much trinity with the empahis on three or trio..its the divinity of God..Jesus is divine. Holy Spirit is divine. God our heavenly father is divine. In their natures.

All of that can be shown in the more modern translations.

 

[kiwimac]

It really is an agenda from the Father of all Lies:


The NIV perverts the deity of Jesus Christ!

I TIMOTHY 3:16: The clearest verse in the Bible proclaiming that Jesus Christ was God. The King James Bible (KJB) reads, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH. . ." The King James says, plainly, "GOD was manifest in the flesh". The NIV reads, "HE appeared in a body". The NIV "twists" "GOD" to "HE". "HE appeared in a body"? So What? Everyone has "appeared in a body"! "He" is a pronoun that refers to a noun or antecedent. There is no antecedent in the context! The statement does NOT make sense! The NIV subtilty (see Genesis 3:1) perverts I Timothy 3:16 into utter nonsense!

PHILIPPIANS 2:6: The KJB again, clearly declares the deity of Jesus Christ: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD" The NIV reads, "Who, being in very nature God, DID NOT CONSIDER EQUALITY WITH GOD something to be grasped,". The NIV again subtitly perverts the deity of Jesus Christ!

The NIV perverts the virgin birth!

LUKE 2:33: The King James Bible reads, "And JOSEPH and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him." The NIV reads, "The CHILD'S FATHER and mother marveled at what was said about him." The "CHILD'S FATHER"? Was Joseph Jesus's father? Not if you believe the virgin birth! Not if you believe John 3:16, that Jesus Christ was the Son of God! A subtil, "perversion" of the virgin birth. See also Luke 2:43.

The NIV removes the blood of Jesus Christ!

COLOSSIANS 1:14: The KJB reads, "In whom we have redemption THROUGH HIS BLOOD, even the forgiveness of sins:" The NIV reads, "In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." The NIV rips out the precious words "THROUGH HIS BLOOD"! Friend, redemption is ONLY "THROUGH HIS BLOOD".Hebrews 9:22, reads, ". . . without shedding of BLOOD is no remission." That old song says, "What can wash away my sins, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS!"

The NIV perverts John 3:16 into a LIE!

JOHN 3:16: The NIV reads, "For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE AND ONLY SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" Jesus was NOT "the one and only son" - Adam is called the "son of God" in Luke 3:38, there are "sons of God" in Job 1:6 and Christians are called "sons of God" in Phil 2:15, I John 3:2- but Jesus was the "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON"! By removing the critical word "BEGOTTEN" - The NIV perverts John 3:16 into a LIE! The NIV does the same in John 1:14, 1:18, and 3:18.

The NIV perverts TRUTH into LIES!

The NIV perverts Mark 1:2,3 into a LIE! The NIV reads "It is written in Isaiah the prophet: I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way-a voice of one calling in the desert, Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him." It is NOT written in Isaiah! "I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way" - is found in Malachi 3:1! The King James correctly reads: "As it is written in the PROPHETS, . . ." A better translation! Easier to read - BY A LIE!

Psalms 119:160 says, "Thy word is TRUE. . ." John 17:17 says, ". . . thy word is TRUTH." Titus 1:2 clearly says, ". . . God that CANNOT LIE" How could the God of Titus 1:2 be the God of Mark 1:2,3 in the NIV!? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! For Hebrews 6:18 clearly declares, ". . . it was IMPOSSIBLE for God to LIE" It is impossible for the LIES in the NIV to be the words of GOD! Whose words are they? I'll give you a hint - Jesus Christ calls him "A LIAR, and the father of it" in John 8:44!

The NIV again openly LIES in 2 Samuel 21:19, ". . . Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod." What 8-year-old doesn't know that David killed Goliath?

Romans 1:18-32 describes the "path to perversion" and verse 25, describes their decline, "Who changed the TRUTH of God into a LIE. . ."! Not surprisingly, The NIV perverts Romans 1:25 from "CHANGED the truth of God INTO a lie" to "EXCHANGED the truth of God FOR a lie"!

The NIV and sexual perversion!

Romans 1:26-32 also shows the "fruits" of "sowing" ". . . the TRUTH of God into a LIE. . ." Verses 26-27 says "FOR THIS CAUSE(vs 25 for "changing the TRUTH of God into a LIE") God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, . . ."

The last few years homosexuality and sexual perversion have "exploded" into the mainstream. Legislation is now pending making same-sex marriages legal. Books such as Heather Has Two Mommies and Daddy's Roommate, promoting homosexuality, are in our schools. According to The Washington Post, bisexuality and homosexuality, are the "in thing" in our public schools. And even churches are now welcoming homosexuals and are even ordaining them in the ministry!

A literary critic on the NIV translation was homosexual author Dr. Virginia Mollenkott. In Episcopal, Witness (June 1991, pp. 20-23), she admits, "My lesbianism has ALWAYS been a part of me. . ." To no surprise, "sodomite" is completely removed from the NIV. (Deut. 23:17, I Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:46, II Kings 23:7) And of course, I Cor. 6:9, ". . . effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. . ." is replaced with the non-offensive ". . . nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders. . ." Notice the NIV in I Cor. 6:9 does NOT condemn "homosexuals" or the "act of homosexuality" - but ONLY "homosexual OFFENDERS".

The Devil is subtil:

Ge:3:1: Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

He has fooled many that follow God and continues his assault this very day. He knows the word of God and continues to subtilly change it to cause confusion and doubt. God's words are pure words. What man can believe that they have a "better" word than God has said?

When did the KJV become that standard against which other English translations are judged? It is the Greek and Hebrew MSS which should be the standard not another, now archaic, translation.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I tend to use at least 2, sometimes more, translations at once, to get a fuller idea of what might be intended. Because they are all translations I think any one version will always lose something; hopefully using more than one will show where that might happen.

KJV is my fav, but I like others too. RSV particularly, then NIV.

Check out these NIV links and then see if you still like the NIV.....
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NIV/why.htm
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NIV/not_gods_word.htm

A lot of Christians today don't want the truth about modern versions. The truth about the NIV and it's creators is so easy to show, so easy to see....it baffles me why Christians don't want to hear about it....and the same goes for all other modern versions, all of them made claiming to be better than the King James Bible for whatever reason they could use to sell the modern version.

 

[Boidae]

Check out these NIV links and then see if you still like the NIV.....
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NIV/why.htm
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NIV/not_gods_word.htm

How about a non-KJV biased source? Do you have one of those?

 

[kiwimac]

How about a non-KJV biased source? Do you have one of those?

Wouldn't hold your breath!

 

[kiwimac]

How about a non-KJV biased source? Do you have one of those?

Try here :
and here:

 

[Catherineanne]

Check out these NIV links and then see if you still like the NIV.....
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NIV/why.htm
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NIV/not_gods_word.htm

Look again. I did not say I rely on the NIV alone. I don't rely on any version on its own.

But I am also not interested in any site which sets out to disrespect any version of the Bible. That kind of Christianity does not interest me in the slightest.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

edited, no offense intended

 

[SaintJoeNow]

The general criticism against those who believe God preserved His word for the English speaking world in the King James Bible is the following kind of false-accusations, often opening with the prejudicial insult of " You KVJ Onlyists" (twisting belief in God's word being preserved in English into a religion separate from Jesus Christ as all "isms" are religions, and the "ists" in the "isms" are practitioners of that religion) and then following with a number of points building a case for character assassination of those who believe God's word cannot be changed by varying versions, and cannot be discovered by comparing varying versions, but rather must be believed and accepted as God's word. The points often used are "uneducated" "judgmental" "self-righteous" "holier than thou" and such things. These kind of insults and proclamations of belief in a higher form of Christianity which does not pretend, as KJV onlyists are said to pretend, that they have God's word in English but rather that they claim humility in resigning the total failure of people who love God's word to preserve it, and they claim humility in accepting that God did not care enough to make sure His word would be preserved in English, and they claim humility in not judging right or wrong in modern versions (except of course judging that the King James Bible is not God's preserved word, otherwise they could not claim humility in rejecting it as God's preserved word).

The whole appeal of multiple versions is to inner pride, pride of intellect, pride of moral superiority for being Non-judgmental, pride of having the Holy Spirit to guide into truth combined with intellect to determine what God's word is with no solid standard outside of personal intellect by which to judge the veracity of one's impressions of what they think God's word is....no solid standard because the originals are lost and the multi-version embracer believes errors have been inserted in the copies and things have been lost or added so the whole choice of what is said to be God's word is arbitrary subject to human reasoning and not objective from God who cannot lie or change His word.

Many Christians who are not actually KJV only have said on this site in threads like these that the animosity against the King James Bible and KJV only believers is obvious. The highest standard is always the one most hated in the world. Christians and Jews have always been the most hated, and the most conservative in those groups are at the top of the list for being attacked.

They hated Jesus because He told them nothing but the truth, and he named their sins and called them names accordingly directly to their faces as well as preaching about those sins and those sinners loudly to the whole crowd. Jesus said if we follow Him, the world would hate us the same as they hated Him. It's easy to avoid ruffling feathers and focus on being comfortable and getting along with everybody. Following Jesus costs our lives, as He paid the price to own our lives. This is why I did not become a Christian when I first heard the gospel as a teenager. I clearly understood that if I believed on Jesus He was going to change my life and I would have had to stand against the self-indulgent pleasures I was enjoying with my friends. I knew that if I received Him in reality as He is, it would cost me my life because I would have to lose my life for Him who paid for it. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and the way we must follow Him is to die to ourselves and yield our lives to Him and He will separate us from the world and most people are afraid to forsake the comforts and pleasures of this world.

 

[High Fidelity]

The general criticism against those who believe God preserved His word for the English speaking world in the King James Bible is the following kind of false-accusations, often opening with the insult of " You KVJ Onlyists" (twisting belief in God's word being preserved in English into a religion separate from Jesus Christ as all "isms" are religions, and the "ists" in the "isms" are practitioners of that religion) and then following with a number of points building a case for character assassination of those who believe God's word cannot be changed by varying versions, and cannot be discovered by comparing varying versions, but rather must be believed and accepted as God's word. The points often used are "uneducated" "judgmental" "self-righteous" "holier than thou" and such things. These kind of insults and proclamations of belief in a higher form of Christianity which does not pretend, as KJV onlyists are said to pretend, that they have God's word in English but rather that they claim humility in resigning the total failure of people who love God's word to preserve it, and they claim humility in accepting that God did not care enough to make sure His word would be preserved in English.

The whole appeal of multiple versions is to inner pride, pride of intellect, pride of moral superiority for being Non-judgmental, pride of having the Holy Spirit to guide into truth combined with intellect to determine what God's word is with no solid standard outside of personal intellect by which to judge the veracity of one's impressions of what they think God's word is....no solid standard because the originals are lost and the multi-version embracer believes errors have been inserted in the copies and things have been lost or added so the whole choice of what is said to be God's word is arbitrary subject to human reasoning and not objective from God who cannot lie or change His word.

How is the NIV any different to the KJV in that it was written by people that felt compelled to write it?

You're using the KJV as a standard for other versions when the KJV is just another version held to a higher standard itself, original texts.

The KJV is no more Holy than the NASB, ESV, etc. Certainly not as a accurate.

 

[twin1954]

How is the NIV any different to the KJV in that it was written by people that felt compelled to write it?

You're using the KJV as a standard for other versions when the KJV is just another version held to a higher standard itself, original texts.

The KJV is no more Holy than the NASB, ESV, etc. Certainly not as a accurate.

I would agree with everything you said except that the KJV is as accurate a translation as any. Yes there are some places that could have been better translated but overall it is as good as any.

 

[Boidae]

The general criticism against those who believe God preserved His word for the English speaking world in the King James Bible is the following kind of false-accusations, often opening with the insult of " You KVJ Onlyists" (twisting belief in God's word being preserved in English into a religion separate from Jesus Christ as all "isms" are religions, and the "ists" in the "isms" are practitioners of that religion) and then following with a number of points building a case for character assassination of those who believe God's word cannot be changed by varying versions, and cannot be discovered by comparing varying versions, but rather must be believed and accepted as God's word. The points often used are "uneducated" "judgmental" "self-righteous" "holier than thou" and such things. These kind of insults and proclamations of belief in a higher form of Christianity which does not pretend, as KJV onlyists are said to pretend, that they have God's word in English but rather that they claim humility in resigning the total failure of people who love God's word to preserve it, and they claim humility in accepting that God did not care enough to make sure His word would be preserved in English.

The whole appeal of multiple versions is to inner pride, pride of intellect, pride of moral superiority for being Non-judgmental, pride of having the Holy Spirit to guide into truth combined with intellect to determine what God's word is with no solid standard outside of personal intellect by which to judge the veracity of one's impressions of what they think God's word is....no solid standard because the originals are lost and the multi-version embracer believes errors have been inserted in the copies and things have been lost or added so the whole choice of what is said to be God's word is arbitrary subject to human reasoning and not objective from God who cannot lie or change His word.

Many Christians who are not actually KJV only have said on this site in threads like these that the animosity against the King James Bible and KJV only believers is obvious. The highest standard is always the one most hated in the world. Christians and Jews have always been the most hated, and the most conservative in those groups are at the top of the list for being attacked.

I call you a KJVO because that is what you claim to be a King James Version Only person. I am not doing it to offend you, I am doing it because it is what you claim to be.

The KJV is not the standard by which all Bibles should be held to. That is a false dichotomy. It is not the KJV in one group and all other translations in another. The KJV belongs in the group with all other translations and the originals which are the standard that all Bibles including the KJV must go by is in the other group.

As I said in my other post. You have elevated the KJV into a place that it does not belong. That is above God. It is an idol in your life that you must repent of. What I am saying is not an attack, but said out of concern for you.

 

[High Fidelity]

I would agree with everything you said except that the KJV is as accurate a translation as any. Yes there are some places that could have been better translated but overall it is as good as any.

As good as? I think that's a risky thing to say.

Is the Living Bible as good as the KJV or more accurate versions like the NASB?