Justification and Sanctification ?

[BNR32FAN]

Question to everyone, doesn’t Paul’s words in Romans 7 describe exactly how you feel when you sin?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul didn’t say he was free from sin in Romans 8:2.

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The law of sin & death is the Mosiac law. Christ set us free from the Mosaic law because it could not bring us to salvation it can only condemn us.

“For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

But we also have to keep in mind that certain Moral Laws
that Paul was trying to keep back in Romans 7:14-24 is called,

"the righteousness of the Law" in Romans 8:4.​

Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

What is the righteousness of the Law?

Romans 13:8-10 gives us the answer.

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10).

So yes. Paul was saying he has been freed by this type of sin (that he struggled with back in Romans 7:14-24). Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you not under the Law, but you are under grace.
This does not mean there are no laws under the New Covenant.

There is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2).
There is the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2).

New Testament Commands That Are Called A Command:

1. “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment.” (Mark 12:29-30 gives us the full complete description of the 1st commandment in the Bible).
2. “And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:31).
3. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23).
4. “Repent” (i.e. Seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ) (Acts of the Apostles 17:30 says, “God… now commands all men everywhere to repent”).
5. A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another (John 13:34-35).
6. “Watch” (“For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. Watch you therefore: for you know not when the Master of the house comes,...” - See: Mark 13:33-37).
7. “Honor your father and mother” (God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother - Matthew 15:4, Matthew 19:19, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20) (Ephesians 6:2-3 says “Honour your father and mother (which is the first commandment attached with a promise).
8. Tell the women to keep silent in the churches. For it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law; And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
9. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks disorderly (2 Thessalonians 3:6).
10. Keep the following commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ: Fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life, whereby you are called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses (1 Timothy 6:12-14).

So as we can see the New Covenant is not without Laws or God's commands.
1 John 3:4 says that sin is the breaking of the Law.
Just having a belief alone in Jesus as one's Savior their whole life is not going to help a person enter God's Kingdom if they do not obey the LORD. That would only be the deception that has grabbed hold of most churches today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes but you said that Paul said he didn’t sin in Romans 8:2. That’s not what he actually said.

Yes, he is saying that. See my post #362. To be set free from sin is to not be a slave to sin.
If you are a slave to sin, you will not abide in the house forever (i.e., you will not abide in the house of Christ forever) (John 8:34-35). Meaning, Matthew 13:41-42 will happen. The Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e., the Lake of Fire) (See: Matthew 13:41-42).

 

[timothyu]

To be set free from sin is to not be a slave to sin.

Being set free is the introduction of the resurrection and Kingdom previously unavailable. We've been given an option to the permanent death penalty

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Question to everyone, doesn’t Paul’s words in Romans 7 describe exactly how you feel when you sin?

Again, I have shown eight reasons why Paul is not speaking as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.
Just start off reading the chapter. He tells his readers that he is speaking to them that know the Law.
So the context is the Old Law (under the false Pharisee religion). The Pharisees did not even believe correctly in God's grace as we see in Luke 18:9-14. They made it all about Works ALONE Salvationism. They thought they could be saved solely by Law alone. But they needed God's grace first before they could obey the commands that come from our Lord Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Being set free is the introduction of the resurrection and Kingdom previously unavailable. We've been given an option to the permanent death penalty

I see him being set free as his saying he is no longer a slave to his sin anymore (of which he describes as a part of his old life as a Pharisee who was stuck under the false Pharisee religion that made salvation all about Works and no grace ever). Paul's struggle as a Pharisee (when he was Saul) is described to us in Romans 7:14-24.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But we also have to keep in mind that certain Moral Laws
that Paul was trying to keep back in Romans 7:14-24 is called,

"the righteousness of the Law" in Romans 8:4.​

Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

What is the righteousness of the Law?

Romans 13:8-10 gives us the answer.

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10).

So yes. Paul was saying he has been freed by this type of sin (that he struggled with back in Romans 7:14-24). Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you not under the Law, but you are under grace.
This does not mean there are no laws under the New Covenant.

There is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2).
There is the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2).

New Testament Commands That Are Called A Command:

1. “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment.” (Mark 12:29-30 gives us the full complete description of the 1st commandment in the Bible).
2. “And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:31).
3. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23).
4. “Repent” (i.e. Seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ) (Acts of the Apostles 17:30 says, “God… now commands all men everywhere to repent”).
5. A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another (John 13:34-35).
6. “Watch” (“For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. Watch you therefore: for you know not when the Master of the house comes,...” - See: Mark 13:33-37).
7. “Honor your father and mother” (God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother - Matthew 15:4, Matthew 19:19, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20) (Ephesians 6:2-3 says “Honour your father and mother (which is the first commandment attached with a promise).
8. Tell the women to keep silent in the churches. For it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law; And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
9. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks disorderly (2 Thessalonians 3:6).
10. Keep the following commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ: Fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life, whereby you are called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses (1 Timothy 6:12-14).

So as we can see the New Covenant is not without Laws or God's commands.
1 John 3:4 says that sin is the breaking of the Law.
Just having a belief alone in Jesus as one's Savior their whole life is not going to help a person enter God's Kingdom if they do not obey the LORD. That would only be the deception that has grabbed hold of most churches today.

No I completely agree that we are still under the moral laws. Being freed from sin just means that we are no longer a slave to it, it does not have dominion over us but we are still perfectly capable of stumbling in sin and I think that is what Paul was indicating in Romans 7. I just sinned about 30 minutes ago on my lunch break. I went into a store and saw this beautiful woman with a beautiful body and I immediately looked away. 30 seconds later my eyes were drawn to her again for a couple of seconds and again I looked away this time I opened my phone and started reading posts here on CF to keep myself distracted. I didn’t want to look at her but my eyes were surely attracted to her. I wished I had never seen her in the first place but we face these kinds of temptations all the time. I’m sure this won’t be the last time I have this problem even tho I wish to God it was. That’s how I see Paul’s statements in Romans 7. Utter disappointment and disgust for his shortcomings.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Again, I have shown eight reasons why Paul is not speaking as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.
Just start off reading the chapter. He tells his readers that he is speaking to them that know the Law.
So the context is the Old Law (under the false Pharisee religion). The Pharisees did not even believe correctly in God's grace as we see in Luke 18:9-14. They made it all about Works ALONE Salvationism. They thought they could be saved solely by Law alone. But they needed God's grace first before they could obey the commands that come from our Lord Jesus.

Can you just answer my question please? Do Paul’s words in Romans 7 describe how you feel when you sin?

 

[AbbaLove]

No, being cleared of guilt (justification) by faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sin comes before sanctification.

Not according to Paul ... as the remission of your sin was accomplised on the cross being washed and sanctified by His cleansing Blood.

1 Corinthians 6:11 (WEB) ... one defintion of a Born Again Believers life of/in/by faithful obedience ...
Some of you were such, but you were washed. But you were sanctified.
But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God.
​

Hebrews 13:12 (sanctification) .... “So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through His own blood.”
Hebrews 11:13 (the Faith chapter) "All these people were still living by faith when they died" (and so they were justified by GOD).

As a born again Believer you were first washed (cleansed) by His Blood (Hebrews 9:14) being sanctified.. Then it's up to us with faithful obedience by the guidance and empowering of the Holy Spirit to STOP sinning (GO and sin no more).

The following verse is one definition of sanctification (Hebrew s9:14)

How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God,
cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!​

Justification is not, nor does it depend on sanctification or holiness. It is by faith only (Ro 3:28), not because of works of sanctification.

You've still got it in reverse order. Without sanctification/holiness we aren't truly born again as a faithful obedient servant to God.
First comes scantification by His shed Blood as the Lamb of GOD. Then justification - the result of a born again life of faithful obedience.

Romans 3:28​

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.​

Yes, it's only as a life-long faithful obedient servant (Hebrews 11 - Faith Chapter) that one is justified before the Lamb.
That is not to say that these stalwarts of Faith weren't sanctifed as a sacred vessel by the Lord God - Adonai.
___________________________________________
​

Apparently you didn't read my previous post and may still mistakenly believe i'm a follower of Messianic Judiasm. And attemping to abide by as many of the 613 Mosaic laws (as still possible). Because you really have no scripture to prove that we are first justified by His blood you decided to quote Rom 3:28. Prehaps mistakenly thinking that i'm of jewish ancestry and holding to the lawful commands of the Torah.

​

 

[AbbaLove]

But few argue with this. Holiness comes from God alone, not from ourselves even if we must continuously submit to it, to Him, in our attaining of that holiness.

"attainiing of" His Justification for our faithful obedience

The initial "Holiness" (sanctification) is when a follower of Jesus was initially cleansed and sanctified by the shedding of His Blood ...​

Hebrews 13:12 (NIV)​

And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through His own blood.​

Hebrews 13:12 (WEB)​

Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside of the gate.​

Can anyone (e.g. Clare73) post a translation at Biblegate, Biblehub, etc where justify is used in place of santify. (Hebrews 13:12)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No I completely agree that we are still under the moral laws. Being freed from sin just means that we are no longer a slave to it, it does not have dominion over us but we are still perfectly capable of stumbling in sin and I think that is what Paul was indicating in Romans 7.

No. If a believer is still struggling with sin, that means that they are still a slave to their sin. It means that sin still has dominion over them. Therefore, they need to be set free from sin by God’s grace and Sanctification.

Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin (See: John 8:34).

Paul is not indicating that he is struggling with sin as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.
That is a misreading of that passage.
That would be reading the passage in the vacuum of space and ignoring the context.
The context is the Law of Moses and his struggle as a Pharisee who was under that Law.
We know that the Jews believed in the false belief of Law Alone Salvationism (Luke 18:9-14).
For Paul says he is set free from sin in Romans 8:2. But you don’t believe that.

I just sinned about 30 minutes ago on my lunch break. I went into a store and saw this beautiful woman with a beautiful body and I immediately looked away. 30 seconds later my eyes were drawn to her again for a couple of seconds and again I looked away this time I opened my phone and started reading posts here on CF to keep myself distracted. I didn’t want to look at her but my eyes were surely attracted to her. I wished I had never seen her in the first place but we face these kinds of temptations all the time. I’m sure this won’t be the last time I have this problem even tho I wish to God it was. That’s how I see Paul’s statements in Romans 7. Utter disappointment and disgust for his shortcomings.

Jesus says,
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

Do you believe these words by Jesus?
I do. I believe that any believer (including myself) is in danger of being cast bodily into hell (Gehenna) if they look upon a woman in lust. That is the most plainest way to read this text above by our Lord. But men do not like these words by Jesus and so they seek to either change them or ignore them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Can you just answer my question please? Do Paul’s words in Romans 7 describe how you feel when you sin?

No, because that is not what the passage is saying. I also know we can overcome sin. There are different ways to overcome sin.

#1. A believer can remove themselves from sinful environments.

A believer should remove themselves from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause them to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin (Genesis 39:11-12). One of the commands in the New Testament is: "Flee fornication." (1 Corinthians 6:18) (Note: Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the commandments of the Lord - 1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). Sometimes this running away is merely a means of escape. God provides a way of escape for us to run to so that we can bear the temptation and get through it. For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

#2. Believers can pray to God so as not to be tempted.

Believers can pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for a believer to pray so as not to be tempted into sin (Matthew 6:12). God will guide and protect a believer if they are serious in praying for this. "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" (Matthew 26:41). In fact, fasting will help a believer with this, as well. I believe that being enslaved to sin is a demonic influence. While being enslaved to sin does not mean a Christian is possessed by a demon, we learn that certain demon possessions could not be driven out only by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:21). So if demon possession at the most intense level can only be healed (by the casting out of the demon) by both prayer and fasting, then it is a sure bet that fasting and praying to overcome sin will also help a believer overcome sin (Which is a demonic influence).

#3. Believers can obey God’s righteous ways.

Believers can obey God’s righteous ways. The more a believer loves God and loves others and obeys His Word and they stay in His Word and pray, the more they will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. For the more a believer walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16). "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14). "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).

#4. When a believer is tempted, they can quote Scripture.

When a believer is tempted, they can quote Scripture to defeat the devil's temptation. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil (Matthew 4:4) (Matthew 4:7) (Matthew 4:10). So when some specific sin is bothering a believer, a believer can do research and find all the verses they can that are victory verses that they can speak when tempted to overcome that particular sin. A good general verse (Especially if a believer is tempted to look at women in lust if they find themselves in public around a lot of people) is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” (Psalms 23:1). A believer can say these verses to themselves silently under their breath (with nobody hearing).

#5. Believers can ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians.

A believer can ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help them to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, "bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ." So a believer should seek true fellowship (even if it is just 2 or 3 faithful believers to meet up every week so as to worship God) and they should ask these faithful Christians for help to overcome their sin. In 1 John 5, we see Christians praying for a believer who is struggling to overcome a sin (that they are confessing). "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16). A faithful Christian shall ask God to give their fellow Christian life (victory) in overcoming their sin that they are confessing (i.e. sin that is confessed is not a sin that leads unto death).

#6. A believer can hide God’s Word in their heart.

A believer can hide God’s Word in their heart to overcome grievous sin. Meaning, a believer should memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalms 119:11).

#7. A believer can confess of their sins.

A believer can confess of their sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No. If a believer is still struggling with sin, that means that they are still a slave to their sin. It means that sin still has dominion over them. Therefore, they need to be set free from sin by God’s grace and Sanctification.

Paul is not indicating that he is struggling with sin as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.
That is a misreading of that passage.
That would be reading the passage in the vacuum of space and ignoring the context.
The context is the Law of Moses and his struggle as a Pharisee who was under that Law.
For Paul says he is set free from sin in Romans 8:2. But you don’t believe that.



Jesus says,
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

Ok so Peter was not set free by God’s sanctification in Galatians 2 when Paul rebuked him for hypocrisy.

Your saying that Christians don’t sin?

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, because that is not what the passage is saying. I also know we can overcome sin. There are different ways to overcome sin.

#1. A believer can remove themselves from sinful environments.

A believer should remove themselves from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause them to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin (Genesis 39:11-12). One of the commands in the New Testament is: "Flee fornication." (1 Corinthians 6:18) (Note: Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the commandments of the Lord - 1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). Sometimes this running away is merely a means of escape. God provides a way of escape for us to run to so that we can bear the temptation and get through it. For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

#2. Believers can pray to God so as not to be tempted.

Believers can pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for a believer to pray so as not to be tempted into sin (Matthew 6:12). God will guide and protect a believer if they are serious in praying for this. "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" (Matthew 26:41). In fact, fasting will help a believer with this, as well. I believe that being enslaved to sin is a demonic influence. While being enslaved to sin does not mean a Christian is possessed by a demon, we learn that certain demon possessions could not be driven out only by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:21). So if demon possession at the most intense level can only be healed (by the casting out of the demon) by both prayer and fasting, then it is a sure bet that fasting and praying to overcome sin will also help a believer overcome sin (Which is a demonic influence).

#3. Believers can obey God’s righteous ways.

Believers can obey God’s righteous ways. The more a believer loves God and loves others and obeys His Word and they stay in His Word and pray, the more they will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. For the more a believer walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16). "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14). "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).

#4. When a believer is tempted, they can quote Scripture.

When a believer is tempted, they can quote Scripture to defeat the devil's temptation. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil (Matthew 4:4) (Matthew 4:7) (Matthew 4:10). So when some specific sin is bothering a believer, a believer can do research and find all the verses they can that are victory verses that they can speak when tempted to overcome that particular sin. A good general verse (Especially if a believer is tempted to look at women in lust if they find themselves in public around a lot of people) is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” (Psalms 23:1). A believer can say these verses to themselves silently under their breath (with nobody hearing).

#5. Believers can ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians.

A believer can ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help them to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, "bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ." So a believer should seek true fellowship (even if it is just 2 or 3 faithful believers to meet up every week so as to worship God) and they should ask these faithful Christians for help to overcome their sin. In 1 John 5, we see Christians praying for a believer who is struggling to overcome a sin (that they are confessing). "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16). A faithful Christian shall ask God to give their fellow Christian life (victory) in overcoming their sin that they are confessing (i.e. sin that is confessed is not a sin that leads unto death).

#6. A believer can hide God’s Word in their heart.

A believer can hide God’s Word in their heart to overcome grievous sin. Meaning, a believer should memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalms 119:11).

#7. A believer can confess of their sins.

A believer can confess of their sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

A believer can do all of this and still sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A believer can do all of this and still sin.

If they don’t have faith in those verses while doing them, and or don’t trust God, then… yes.
They can fail. But if they have faith and obey, they cannot fail.
A person just running through the motions and not believing is not going to help them.
They have to be fully committed and serious about these things in Scripture.
If not, they merely do not believe God’s Word.
In other words, why would God help the faithless?

Note: Belief sometimes is not just believing a certain set of facts, but it is truly employing those things in God’s Word as a part of it.
In other words, a Christian may say that they believe in loving their neighbor according to the Bible, but if they are not actually doing that, then they really don’t believe it. One’s actions truly shows whether they believe or not.

For example: If Rick said that his old rocking chair on his porch was able to hold his weight, and he said he believed that with all his heart, would he truly be showing forth that his statement of faith was true if he never sat in the chair? Especially if he was asked to sit in it and yet he refused to do so? In other words, if Rick believed that his porch chair would hold his weight (and he told others this), he would no doubt take the action necessary by sitting in that chair to prove that such a statement was true. Otherwise it would just be an empty profession of faith. In other words, if a person says they love God, and they have no visible good fruit to show that such a thing is true, then it would be just an empty profession of faith that they love God. Meaning, they really do not love God. It would just be a paying of lip service. I mean, a man can say he loves his wife, but if he does nothing to please her in any way, then he really does not love her. Action shows forth whether one's faith is the genuine and the real article vs. it being fake.

Besides, have you tried obeying the list of things on my list with no doubts?
My guess is you did not do so.
So how would you really know?
In other words, I believe you are speaking from a sin and still be saved perspective, and you are simply unable to see what God’s Word is saying here. That is why you said a believer can still sin even after doing all the things on my list of Scripture verses to overcome sin.
You are basically saying that God is not going to be faithful to you, if you are not faithful to His Word.
But most often, Christians are lazy and they will not employ ALL of those things I mentioned In His Word.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The context is the Law of Moses and his struggle as a Pharisee who was under that Law.
For Paul says he is set free from sin in Romans 8:2. But you don’t believe that.

I don’t believe that because that’s not what Paul says in Romans 8:2. I already explained what being set free from the LAW OF SIN & DEATH means and you even agreed with me that the LAW OF SIN & DEATH is referring to the Mosaic law. So stop saying that he said he was freed from sin in Romans 8:2 because that’s not what he said.

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The law of the Spirit set us free from the Mosiac law.

Have you managed to stop sinning?

 

[BNR32FAN]

If they don’t have faith in those verses while doing them, and or don’t trust God, then… yes.
They can fail. But if they have faith and obey, they cannot fail.
A person just running through the motions and not believing is not going to help them.
They have to be fully committed and serious about these things in Scripture.
If not, they merely do not believe God’s Word.
In other words, why would God help the faithless?

Note: Belief sometimes is not just believing a certain set of facts, but it is truly employing those things in God’s Word as a part of it.
In other words, a Christian may say that they believe in loving their neighbor according to the Bible, but if they are not actually doing that, then they really don’t believe it. One’s actions truly shows whether they believe or not.

For example: If Rick said that his old rocking chair on his porch was able to hold his weight, and he said he believed that with all his heart, would he truly be showing forth that his statement of faith was true if he never sat in the chair? Especially if he was asked to sit in it and yet he refused to do so? In other words, if Rick believed that his porch chair would hold his weight (and he told others this), he would no doubt take the action necessary by sitting in that chair to prove that such a statement was true. Otherwise it would just be an empty profession of faith. In other words, if a person says they love God, and they have no visible good fruit to show that such a thing is true, then it would be just an empty profession of faith that they love God. Meaning, they really do not love God. It would just be a paying of lip service. I mean, a man can say he loves his wife, but if he does nothing to please her in any way, then he really does not love her. Action shows forth whether one's faith is the genuine and the real article vs. it being fake.

Besides, have you tried obeying the list of things on my list with no doubts?
My guess is you did not do so.
So how would you really know?
In other words, I believe you are speaking from a sin and still be saved perspective, and you are simply unable to see what God’s Word is saying here. That is why you said a believer can still sin even after doing all the things on my list of Scripture verses to overcome sin.
You are basically saying that God is not going to be faithful to you, if you are not faithful to His Word.
But most often, Christians are lazy and they will not employ ALL of those things I mentioned In His Word.

Ok so you have successfully stopped sinning? Is that correct?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ok so Peter was not set free by God’s sanctification in Galatians 2 when Paul rebuked him for hypocrisy.

You’re saying that Christians don’t sin?

I believe in Progressive Sanctification. But the goal of Sanctification is to bring believers into a state of obedience or overcoming sin at some point in their life. If you see a drunk who joins a drug program and he becomes alcohol free one day that does not mean he is a slave to his drunkenness if he stumbled once or twice on his road to recovery. It’s like Rick saying to Bob, “Ah, ha. See. I know you cannot overcome your sin.” “Go back to your demon in the bottle.” “There is no hope for you.” “Nobody has ever become alcohol free.” “So why try?” ”We all stumble into sin”. “They are all lying to you.” “Get back to stumbling on occasion into your booze.”

 

[BNR32FAN]

I believe in Progressive Sanctification. But the goal of Sanctification is to bring believers into a state of obedience or overcoming sin at some point in their life. If you see a drunk who joins a drug program and he becomes alcohol free one day that does not mean he is a slave to his drunkenness if he stumbled once or twice on his road to recovery. It’s like Rick saying to Bob, “Ah, ha. See. I know you cannot overcome your sin.” “Go back to your demon in the bottle.” “There is no hope for you.” “Nobody has ever become alcohol free.” “So why try?” ”Why all stumble into sin”. “They are all lying to you.” “Get back to stumbling on occasion into your booze.”

I don’t actually see drinking as a sin. I see drunkardness as being a sin but not the occasional drink. My wife & I have a drink on special occasions but we never get drunk. We might go thru two or three bottles of champagne a year and we never finish a bottle in one day.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I believe in Progressive Sanctification. But the goal of Sanctification is to bring believers into a state of obedience or overcoming sin at some point in their life. If you see a drunk who joins a drug program and he becomes alcohol free one day that does not mean he is a slave to his drunkenness if he stumbled once or twice on his road to recovery. It’s like Rick saying to Bob, “Ah, ha. See. I know you cannot overcome your sin.” “Go back to your demon in the bottle.” “There is no hope for you.” “Nobody has ever become alcohol free.” “So why try?” ”Why all stumble into sin”. “They are all lying to you.” “Get back to stumbling on occasion into your booze.”

Well I certainly see your concern in saying “why try”. Anyone saying that is not experiencing conviction of sin from the Holy Spirit and if that’s the case then they’re still lost to begin with. If they can’t see any reason not to sin then they’re not guided by the Spirit.