Justification and Sanctification ?

[Clare73]

Of course... which runs opposite to the will and default ways of mankind

The Bible just calls it sin, deviation from righteousness.

 

[setst777]

My statement was not about you, but about the disobedience person.

No, being cleared of guilt (justification) by faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sin comes before sanctification.

You do not understand that the Greek definition of justification/righteousness (Gr: dikaiosis) is forensic: a declaration of debt paid, guilt removed, in right standing with justice.
Justification is not, nor does it depend on sanctification or holiness. It is by faith only (Ro 3:28), not because of works of sanctification.

Faith in the atoning work (blood) of Christ Jesus saves no one by itself. The blood of Christ cleanse those who walk in God's light.

1 John 5:7 (WEB) 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

The faith by which we sanctify ourselves to God occurs in the mind and heart before one work is ever done.

Faith always includes repentance from dead works serving sin, and a commitment to Christ Jesus as Lord of his life. That is what sanctification means: to be separated (sanctified) onto God from the master of sin we use to serve, and to now follow Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light (repentance), and from the power of Satan unto God (repentance), that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Once we repent and put our faith in Lord Jesus, we have sanctified (set apart) ourselves to God. God then sanctifies this believer onto himself indwelling us by His Spirit. The Spirit leads the believer to a new life (salvation) as the believer continues in the faith manifested by walking in the Spirit - that is sanctification - always by faith.

Galatians 5:24-25 (EWEB) 24 Those who {{{belong to Christ}}} have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we [believers] live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.

A Gospel Faith always includes repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10; Acts 20:20-21; Acts 26:19-20; 2 Peter 3:9), which is a complete change of mind and purpose (sanctification: to be separated onto God) before one work is ever done, and by which we have already:

Died to old master of sin (Romans 6:2),
Put off the old man/Put on the new man” in righteousness (Colossians 3:9-10; Ephesians 4:20-32)
Crucified the flesh (Galatians 5:24)
Put to death the deeds of the body (Romans 8:13)

Instead of serving the old master of sinful passions, we now, by faith, have committed to follow Lord Jesus:

To be his disciple, which is what a Christian is (Acts 11:26)
As His disciple, we obey all things that Lord Jesus commands of us (Matthew 28:19-20)
We listen to and follow Lord Jesus, confirming that we are his sheep (John 10:26-28)
We walk in the light (John 8:12; 1 John 1:6-7)
We walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4)
We live/walk/sow to the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:24-25; Galatians 6:7-9)
We are to be a living Sacrifice to Lord Jesus (set apart: sanctified), which is how we worship him (Romans 12:1-2)
We, as believers will now walk as Jesus walked (1 John 2:4-6)
We follow in the steps of Lord Jesus (1 Peter 2:21)

Isn't that what sanctification means? Isn’t that what faith is – a sanctified life onto God?

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (EWEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you [the believer] abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

Hebrews 12:14-16 (WEB) Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord

Therefore, sanctification can never be separated from a true faith in Lord Jesus by which God sanctifies us onto himself.

 

[setst777]

No, being cleared of guilt (justification) by faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sin comes before sanctification.

In your post that I previously responded to, you detailed what you meant by faith, which includes repentance and obedience. Here is what you wrote:

<<
Clare73 said:
God justifies the person who believes in and trusts on the atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin.

Repentence (turning, change of mind) is the origin of faith.

You don't really believe in Jesus if you do not obey him and give up your life of sin.
"Unbelief" and "disobedience" are the same word in the Greek (apeitheo).
>>

What you expressed about faith in this message is quite different than your present description of faith. You first description of faith describes faith as a commitment to sanctification (setting apart one's self to God) by "(turning, change of mind)" from sin to obedience in Lord Jesus. That is what sanctification means - being set apart onto God.

You do not understand that the Greek definition of justification/righteousness (Gr: dikaiosis) is forensic: a declaration of debt paid, guilt removed, in right standing with justice.
Justification is not, nor does it depend on sanctification or holiness. It is by faith only (Ro 3:28), not because of works of sanctification.

The debt paid and guilt removed is a reality for those who first repent toward God and put their faith in Lord Jesus (sanctification).

1 John 1:7 (WEB) 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin

 

[setst777]

The definition of "repent" is "to turn, to change your mind" to believing the gospel message.
Repentance is the turning to faith.

?? Repentance is used interchangeably with faith in a number of Passages to explain the same thing, even though faith and repentance are not mentioned together.

However, what you described is sanctification (separating ourselves to God by a repentant faith). That is sanctification. You can ignore this fact, but that is what a Gospel Faith is - a sanctification (separating ourselves) onto God by faith in Jesus as our Lord (Romans 10:9).

 

[BNR32FAN]

To covet is to do. Else it would not be prohibited. And no, he is not talking about sin in general, as if to say he is stealing or committing adultery. He speaks directly to that very thing to the Corinthians:

1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Yeah he disciplined his body that doesn’t mean that he didn’t sin, it means that he struggled to resist sin. He specifically said that he sinned in Romans 7. You said he sinned in his mind but that’s not what he said. He didn’t say that anywhere in the entire chapter. Just because he used coveting as one example does not mean that he only coveted. Coveting is the only sin he mentioned as an example of how coveting was revealed as being a sin by the law. All sins were revealed as being a sin by the law. I don’t understand why you think that Paul didn’t struggle with sin just like every other Christian out there. Do we not all possess the same Holy Spirit? Are we not all capable of grieving the Holy Spirit? Why would Paul be any different?

 

[timothyu]

The Bible just calls it sin, deviation from righteousness.

Which is what I said but I left no room for misinterpretation. Sin is putting the will of man before God's will. Righteousness is following His will before man's.

 

[setst777]

Yeah he disciplined his body that doesn’t mean that he didn’t sin, it means that he struggled to resist sin. He specifically said that he sinned in Romans 7. You said he sinned in his mind but that’s not what he said. He didn’t say that anywhere in the entire chapter. Just because he used coveting as one example does not mean that he only coveted. Coveting is the only sin he mentioned as an example of how coveting was revealed as being a sin by the law. All sins were revealed as being a sin by the law. I don’t understand why you think that Paul didn’t struggle with sin just like every other Christian out there. Do we not all possess the same Holy Spirit? Are we not all capable of grieving the Holy Spirit? Why would Paul be any different?

Throughout history, we see how people will idolize their heroes, making them appear more than human. This is common.

Why do we need a High Priest to intercede for us? If the Apostle Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews, which the earliest Church fathers feel he did, then Paul also includes himself with those he wrote to that need a High Priest to intercede for them and to receive grace and mercy offered by the sacrifice of Lord Jesus for our sins.

Hebrews 4:14-16 (WEB) 14 Having then a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let’s hold tightly to our confession. 15 For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace for help in time of need.

Hebrews 7:25 (WEB) 25 Therefore he is also able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, seeing that he lives forever to make intercession for them. 26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

As for the mention of 1 Timothy 1:15:

When Paul said he is the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:15, he was referring to his old life before he became a Christian.

Context:

”And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did itignorantly in unbelief.” (1 Timothy 1:12-13).

So as we can see in this above passage in context, Paul was BEFORE a blasphemer. BEFORE is referring to his old life before he became a Christian. Paul is not the chief of sinners in regards to describing his life as a Christian. A person who is out to defend their sin on some level with the thinking they are still magically saved will only twist the context and meaning of what Paul said here. In fact, this reminds me of the time I have talked with Christians who admitted to me that they could mow down a crowd of people with a sub machine gun and they still would be saved while doing so because they have a belief alone in Jesus Christ as their Savior. Clearly this is not what Paul was talking about. Jude 1:4 warns us about those believers who turn God’s grace into lasciviousness (i.e., a license to sin or immorality).

As for the mention of 1 John 1:8:

1 John 1:8 is one of the most misused verses to justify some level of sin today.

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level.

“If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8).​

Note: The words in brackets in blue is my commentary to the text above.

Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for the mention of Romans 7:14-24:

In Romans 7:14-24: Paul was not speaking as a Christian in this passage but he was relaying his past experience as a Pharisee who was under the false Pharisee religion (under the 613 Laws of Moses) that made salvation all about Works and no grace.

In linguistics: Paul was employing what is called, “Historical Present.”

Historical present - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Eight Reasons Why Paul Spoke as a Pharisee in Romans 7:14-24:

There are 8 reasons in Scripture that show us that Paul is indeed talking as a Pharisee (recounting his past experience) and he is not talking in the present tense as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.

#1. In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

#2. We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#3. Paul says, "For without the law sin was dead." (Romans 7:8). He also says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9). This type of saying is nonsensical from a present tense reading as an adult Christian. The only way it sort of works is if Paul is referring to himself as a baby who had no knowledge of God's laws yet. But there are two problem with even that interpretation. One, this view does not seem as consistent with the phrase, "For without the law sin was dead" because even though Paul as a baby did not have any knowledge of the Law yet, the rest of the adult world would have the Law and sin would still be alive to them. Second, Paul says, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." (Romans 7:10-11). Okay, so if Paul grew up and became aware of the Law one day, how could the commandment be ordained to life at this point in his life? The commandment was ordained for life back in the time of the Law of Moses. Also, Paul found that "the commandment" was death unto him and that it slew him. There are no death penalties attached to the commands given to us under the New Testament. Death penalties are only associated with the Laws given to us in the Old Covenant. This is how the Law slew him. For breaking the Old Law could be a loss of his own physical life. So this is talking about the Old Law (and not all Law). So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#4. Paul says, "But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). Okay. Let's break this down. Paul says, "But sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR SIN, works death in me." (Romans 7:13). Now, how can sin make it appear like it may not be sin? Well, if Jesus was raised and Saul (Paul) was still a Pharisee striving to obey the Old Law when the New Covenant Law was still in effect, the sin that Saul (Paul) was struggling with as a pharisee during that time would not really technically be sin in every case. For if Paul disobeyed certain Old Covenant laws while the New Covenant and it's laws were in effect, then Saul (Paul) is not really breaking any real commandments from God in every case. Hence, why Paul said, "...sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR (as) SIN." (Romans 7:13). The beginning of verse 13 is a foreshadow of what is to come in verses 14-24. Paul is stepping out for a brief moment as speaking as an Israelite living throughout history to speak of his condition as a Pharisee when he says, "...sin, that it might appear sin." In the second half of verse 13, Paul says, that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). This is saying that when God provided the written Law of Moses to his people, there would be a double accountability to keeping God's laws because they are written for all to see now. So an Old Testament saint would feel exceedingly sinful or guilty for breaking God's law back in the Old Testament times because he had in his possession a written down visual law clearly telling him what is right and wrong. So again, Paul is referring to the Old Law here and not all law. This talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin; And yet in Romans 8:2, Pauls says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

#6. In Romans 7:25, Paul asks the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Asking this kind of question as a Christian does not seem consistent with Paul's following statement if he is already delivered thru Jesus Christ as a Christian. If a believer is delivered by Jesus, and is thankful of that fact, there would be no cry to ask any question that says, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

#7. Here is the final nail in the coffin for this argument. Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,
8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

(Romans 13:8-10).

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).

#8. In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.​

This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?​

It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).​

​

Law #2. Sin and Death.​

This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.​

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law. For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).


Source used for a small paragraph within this post: Paul is not Talking about Himself: Why I take the "pre-Christian" Reading of Romans 7:14-25

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for the mention of Justification:

Justification means to be declared righteous or just.

Believers are justified by both faith and works of faith.

James 2:24 says,
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

So while we are justified by faith, we are also justified by works and not by faith alone.

But what about Romans 3:28?

Romans 3:28 says,
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

The word “law” here is in reference to the 613 laws of Moses. Believers are not obligated to keep the Saturday Sabbath, holy days, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, circumcision, etcetera. Granted, the Moral Law has been repeated in the New Testament (New Covenant). So things like: Do not kill, do not steal, do not covet, love God, and your neighbor etcetera have carried over into the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. But it is important to understand that the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12).

Also, the context here in Romans is referring also to Initial Salvation and not the Secondary Aspect of Salvation (Which is the next step or stage in God’s plan of salvation) (Note: I will explain more about this in an upcoming post).

We are also justified by God’s grace (See: Romans 3:24) (Titus 3:7).
However, I do not see this as a license to sin (or a safety net to sin) as most Christians today teach.
God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for the mention of Sanctification:

I see Sanctification as a cleansing or washing (that has the after-effect of being set apart from other things that are dirty or unclean).

However, it is important to understand that there are two different types of Sanctification mentioned in the Bible:

Sanctification Type #1. This is the type of Sanctification or washing when God’s grace first saves us through faith or when you are forgiven of sin by confessing it to the Lord Jesus Christ. David confessed his sin to the Lord and asked God to create a clean heart and renew a right spirit within him (Psalms 51:10). God’s grace washes and sanctifies us of our past sins.​

​

Sanctification Type #2. This is the type of Sanctification or washing when a believer begins to live a holy life by the Spirit and or working of God (After being saved by God’s grace). Sanctification to live a holy life takes place over the course of the believer’s whole life. It is progressive Sanctification because you can always love more than you are loving right now. Do you love "the lost" like you should today? Are you totally sold out to the Lord Jesus Christ in everything helping the poor and the widows, etcetera? So it takes time to reach that state of loving on that high level that God desires of us.​

Purifying oneself is obviously a progressive thing.

The Bible also uses other words to refer to the Sanctification Process or in purifying oneself so as to Live Holy:

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

"Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you." (1 Timothy 4:15-16).

"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; " (Hebrews 12:14-15).

"let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. " (Titus 2:11-14).

"And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. " (1 John 3:3).

When I refer to Sanctification, I generally indicate this as meaning: "Sanctification Type #2" (Whereby the Spirit is sanctifying a person to live a holy life). It's kind of obvious that we are cleansed or washed (i.e., sanctified) when we are forgiven of sins by the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Believers must confess and forsake sins in order to have mercy (salvation) (See: Proverbs 28:13).

Just one sin can keep a believer a believer out of God’s Kingdom.

Serious Sin Can Separate Us From GOD Verses:

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” (Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

"But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul." (Proverbs 6:32).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.” (Ezekiel 18:24).

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

 

[Clare73]

The entire Bible starting with Eve is a matter of wrongly putting one's own will ahead of the will of God and we are told these stories so we may understand that we are backwards thinkers when we do so.

Previously addressed. . .

 

[Clare73]

Faith in the atoning work (blood) of Christ Jesus saves no one by itself.

Nor did I say it did. . .it saves by faith, which salvation is followed by an obedient life of faith

 

[Clare73]

In your post that I previously responded to, you detailed what you meant by faith, which includes repentance and obedience. Here is what you wrote:
<<
Clare73 said:
God justifies the person who believes in and trusts on the atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin.
Repentence (turning, change of mind) is the origin of faith.
You don't really believe in Jesus if you do not obey him and give up your life of sin.
"Unbelief" and "disobedience" are the same word in the Greek (apeitheo).
>>

What you expressed about faith in this message is quite different than your present description of faith. You first description of faith describes faith as a commitment to sanctification (setting apart one's self to God) by "(turning, change of mind)" from sin to obedience in Lord Jesus. That is what sanctification means - being set apart onto God.

Repentance, obedience and commitment to sanctification are the result of the faith which saves.

If one does not have those results, one did not have true faith which saves, one had counterfeit faith which does not save.

The debt paid and guilt removed is a reality for those who first repent toward God and put their faith in Lord Jesus (sanctification).

Previously addressed. . .this is assertion, not Biblical demonstration.

Debt paid, guilt removed is salvation from the wrath of God, which is by faith only, justification is by faith only, both not by works, but apart from works (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28), which follow salvation.

The faith in Christ which saved is not sanctification, which is the life of faith after salvation.

1 John 1:7 (WEB) 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin

That is written to the already saved about the life of faith after salvation.

 

[Clare73]

?? Repentance is used interchangeably with faith in a number of Passages to explain the same thing, even though faith and repentance are not mentioned together.

However, what you described is sanctification (separating ourselves to God by a repentant faith). That is sanctification.

Not according to the meaning of the words "holy" and "sanctify," which is "to set apart."

You can ignore this fact, but that is what a Gospel Faith is - a sanctification (separating ourselves) onto God by faith in Jesus as our Lord (Romans 10:9).

Gospel faith is believing in the gospel.

Saving faith is believing in and trusting on the person and atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin, which is salvation from the wrath of God on one's sin.

Sanctification is the obedient life of faith after salvation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin; And yet in Romans 8:2, Pauls says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

Paul didn’t say he was free from sin in Romans 8:2.

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The law of sin & death is the Mosiac law. Christ set us free from the Mosaic law because it could not bring us to salvation it can only condemn us.

“For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul didn’t say he was free from sin in Romans 8:2.

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The law of sin & death is the Mosiac law. Christ set us free from the Mosaic law because it could not bring us to salvation it can only condemn us.

“For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

If you were to read my eight points involving my explanation of Romans 7:14-24,
you would have seen this:

In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e., to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law. For there is no condemnation to those, who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why is it that Peter could sin in hypocrisy (Galatians2) after receiving the Holy Spirit but for some reason people believe that Paul was unable to sin?

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you were to read my eight points involving my explanation of Romans 7:14-24,
you would have seen this:

In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e., to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law. For there is no condemnation to those, who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).

Yes but you said that Paul said he didn’t sin in Romans 8:2. That’s not what he actually said.