John 14:1-3 "I will com again" - post-trib, pre-mill, full Rapture, visible

[Guojing]

So what was the mystery?

The body of Christ

 

[Spiritual Jew]

God gave up on Israel, that is why the branch was cut off. If you think God is joking when He said they were no longer of Israel, then why was Jeremiah the weeping prophet? He certainly did not see it as a joke.

No, God never gave up on Israel. Read the following carefully:

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

It doesn't say the branch, Israel, was cut off. It says individual branches from Israel were cut off, which were those who didn't believe. But, those who did believe remained.

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

There is no mention of a branch (singular) being broken off here. It talks about branches bring broken off, which refers to individual unbelievers. As Paul indicated in Romans 11:5, there were a remnant from Israel who did believe, so they would not have been broken off.

 

[jgr]

The body of Christ

Note that Ephesians 3:4 identifies the mystery as "the mystery of Christ", not "the mystery of the Body of Christ". Big difference.

In post 590 you said (correctly) "That gentiles and Jews are equal in the Body of Christ".

Who made you change from truth to error?

 

[Timtofly]

No, God never gave up on Israel. Read the following carefully:

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

It doesn't say the branch, Israel, was cut off. It says individual branches from Israel were cut off, which were those who didn't believe. But, those who did believe remained.

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

There is no mention of a branch (singular) being broken off here. It talks about branches bring broken off, which refers to individual unbelievers. As Paul indicated in Romans 11:5, there were a remnant from Israel who did believe, so they would not have been broken off.

Whether as a branch or individual branches does not matter. Only the church remained as the Israel that remained. That is why there are sheep and goats. Not all of the natural branch or branches will be restored. Only some chosen as sheep are restored. The goats are not. Viewing Israel as a whole branch or individual branches does not change the context.

The point is that it is a one time event. Paul was not talking about the last 1991 years, the fulness of the Gentiles, where many of Israel have accepted the Atonement of the Messiah. There still remains the future event where as a whole branch of individual branches they will be grafted back in. This sheep and goat judgment is still not about physically dead people, nor the church. It is only about Israel being grafted back in. Probably still a remnant, but could be a majority. Only God knows whom He has chosen.

 

[keras]

No, God never gave up on Israel.

The mistake you and many make; is to confuse the Jewish people with the House of Israel, who are only of the ten Northern tribes.
They were, both Israelites only up to when they separated under King Rehoboam.

This issue has been very well gone over and people like you, who fail to understand the different destinies of Judah and Israel, will remain in error about our future.

The Lord DID give up on Jewish 'Israel'. He cursed them, the 'fig tree' and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25
Realize that the ONLY true Israel today, is the faithful Christian people. THEY, that is WE Christians, are His people; ALL grafted into the Tree that is Jesus.

 

[DavidPT]

The mistake you and many make; is to confuse the Jewish people with the House of Israel, who are only of the ten Northern tribes.
They were, both Israelites only up to when they separated under King Rehoboam.

This issue has been very well gone over and people like you, who fail to understand the different destinies of Judah and Israel, will remain in error about our future.

The Lord DID give up on Jewish 'Israel'. He cursed them, the 'fig tree' and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25
Realize that the ONLY true Israel today, is the faithful Christian people. THEY, that is WE Christians, are His people; ALL grafted into the Tree that is Jesus.

When Hitler tried to wipe out a good portion of the Jews, do you think Hitler maybe used the same mindset that you used here---The Lord DID give up on Jewish 'Israel'. He cursed them, the 'fig tree' and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25---thus maybe he thought he was doing God a big favor by doing what he did? And since they failed to all get wiped out in 70 AD, maybe Hitler figured he would finish the job by destroying the ones that managed to escape into other nations at the time?

 

[keras]

When Hitler tried to wipe out a good portion of the Jews, do you think Hitler maybe used the same mindset that you used here---The Lord DID give up on Jewish 'Israel'. He cursed them, the 'fig tree' and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25---thus maybe he thought he was doing God a big favor by doing what he did? And since they failed to all get wiped out in 70 AD, maybe Hitler figured he would finish the job by destroying the ones that managed to escape into other nations at the time?

What Hitler did was just another persecution of the Jews, albeit the worst one. Their denigration and troubles, as was prophesied.
But the final and virtually complete punishment of the House of Judah, will come on the soon to happen; Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal event. Only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

 

[Timtofly]

When Hitler tried to wipe out a good portion of the Jews, do you think Hitler maybe used the same mindset that you used here---The Lord DID give up on Jewish 'Israel'. He cursed them, the 'fig tree' and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25---thus maybe he thought he was doing God a big favor by doing what he did? And since they failed to all get wiped out in 70 AD, maybe Hitler figured he would finish the job by destroying the ones that managed to escape into other nations at the time?

Hitler had nothing to do with the events between 800BC and 500BC. 70AD was not even the deciding factor. The Cross and the Atonement of the Messiah gave us the physical change, that was already planned before Creation. God knew all about Israel before Creation. Even if all of Israel remained faithful, the Cross would have happened and the Gentiles still brought into the Atonement.

If the Cross and the Romans were the result of unfaithful Israel, why is the coming tribulation worse, and the result of an unfaithful church? Israel only had about 4 different major sects. Look how many today's church has. The church itself sent more martyrs to Paradise than the Pharisees.

I do not think the emphasis should be on the "punishment". The loss of reward should make us shudder. The ability to return the blessings back to God for all of His goodness towards us. God sustains us, and to be able to give back anything should be our hope. Just to avoid the penalty of sin, or maintain a status quo is rather pointless.

 

[Guojing]

Note that Ephesians 3:4 identifies the mystery as "the mystery of Christ", not "the mystery of the Body of Christ". Big difference.

In post 590 you said (correctly) "That gentiles and Jews are equal in the Body of Christ".

Who made you change from truth to error?

If you are only relying on one verse in Ephesians 3 to form your doctrine about the Body of Christ, that is your choice.

 

[jgr]

If you are only relying on one verse in Ephesians 3 to form your doctrine about the Body of Christ, that is your choice.

I'm relying on Ephesians 3:4-6 to reveal the solution to the mystery of Christ.

Which verses are you relying on to reveal the solution to the mystery of Christ?

 

[Guojing]

I'm relying on Ephesians 3:4-6 to reveal the solution to the mystery of Christ.

Which verses are you relying on to reveal the solution to the mystery of Christ?

Jews and gentiles are equal in the Body of Christ, that is the mystery that was revealed to Paul.

That is Christ according to the mystery (Romans 16:25), as contrast to Christ according to prophecy. (Acts 3:21)

 

[jgr]

Jews and gentiles are equal in the Body of Christ, that is the mystery that was revealed to Paul.

Which verses do you rely on to tell you that?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The mistake you and many make; is to confuse the Jewish people with the House of Israel, who are only of the ten Northern tribes.
They were, both Israelites only up to when they separated under King Rehoboam.

This issue has been very well gone over and people like you, who fail to understand the different destinies of Judah and Israel, will remain in error about our future.

The Lord DID give up on Jewish 'Israel'. He cursed them, the 'fig tree' and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

He did not give up on the Israel that Paul referred to in Romans 11:1-5 as a remnant of them were saved. If He gave up on them then none of them would have been saved back then and none since, but that is not the case. No amount of rhetoric from you can change that. How do you interpret Romans 11:1-5?

Realize that the ONLY true Israel today, is the faithful Christian people. THEY, that is WE Christians, are His people; ALL grafted into the Tree that is Jesus.

You don't need to tell me this. Have you not read my posts where I emphasize spiritual Israel as the true Israel of God over the nation of Israel because it includes both Jew and Gentile believers together as one.

 

[keras]

He did not give up on the Israel that Paul referred to in Romans 11:1-5 as a remnant of them were saved.

Paul was referring to Jewish Israel there.
They now face the third swing of the Sword, Ezekiel 21:14-16 and just the Christian Jews will be saved.

We are in agreement that the true Israelites are the Christian peoples, from every tribe [of Israel], every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10