Jesus's resurrection

[BABerean2]

I'm not th e one saying God will not keep his promise to Abraham. You are.

Do you even understand who these people are being cast out of Abrahams inheritance?

Matthew 8:12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Let us examine the choice of inheritance you are giving Abraham...

A. a piece of land on this rotten, sin-cursed earth, where death still remains...

or

B. a piece of land in the New Heavens and the New Earth Peter was looking for in 2 Peter 3:10-13, and the heavenly city which is found in Hebrews 11:14-16...


Those cast into outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, are in a place which is the opposite of what is found in choice B.

If given the choice, which one would you pick, A or B?

.

 

[Zao is life]

There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

Seeing you carefully avoided this post on the last thread, I will re-post it here:

The Christian experiences two resurrections - spiritual and physical.

So if a Christian was spiritually dead before salvation and they are now spiritually alive, by what means does Scripture say we are brought from death into newness of life?

The only way that we can transition from death to life (both spiritually and physically) is by way of resurrection. There is no other way! This is demonstrated many times in Scripture in regard to both spiritual and physical resurrection.

Two resurrections result for the believer from Christ’s one resurrection. Man needs both spiritually redeemed and physically redeemed. When one gets saved they are spiritually redeemed. But they are not physically redeemed until resurrection day. His “first resurrection” secured both resurrections for those who will put their faith in Christ.

Romans 6:3-6 says, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up (or) egeiro (Strong’s 1453) from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection (or) anastasis (Strong’s 386): Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

There are two Greek words used in Romans 6:3-10 that are used to describe the resurrection of Christ, and that are significantly in turn purposely equated to the believer and the new birth experience; they are egeiro (Strong’s 1453) and anastasis (Strong’s 386). Such a correlation between these two diverse types of resurrection (physical and spiritual) is only secured through Christ’s sinless life, atoning death and glorious resurrection, enabling the believer to walk in resurrection power and “newness of life.” The believer here is therefore supernaturally transferred from a condition of death into one of life. This undoubtedly relates (1) to a spiritual state, and, (2), to the here in now. It cannot relate to the physical resurrection which is still future and which occurs at the second coming of Christ.

The first word egeiro (Strong’s 1453) is used many times throughout the New Testament to describe the Lord’s physical resurrection. These references are found in Matthew 14:2, 16:21, 17:9, 23, 20:19, 26:32, 27:63, 64, 28:6, 7, Mark 14:28, 16:6, 14, Luke 1:69, 9:22, 24:6, 34, John 2:19, 20, 22, 21:14, Acts 3:15, 4:10, 5:30, 10:40, 13:30, 37, Romans 4:24, 25, 6:4, 9, 7:4, 8:11, 34, 10:9, 1 Corinthians 6:14, 15:4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 2 Corinthians 4:14, 5:15, Galatians 1:1, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 2:12, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and 1 Peter 1:21.

The above is not true at all. The following proves that everything you have said above is based on your assumption which has caused you to read things into scripture that simply are not there. This is evident from the difference between the Greek words egeiro and anastasis, which can easily be seen below:

1. Egeiro

Firstly, there are quite a few verses containing the Greek word egeiro where the context of the verse is clearly not referring to any resurrection:

Acts 13:21-22 "And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

And when he had removed him, he raised up (Greek egeiro) unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will."

Note: The word egeiro in Acts 13:22 is not speaking of the resurrection. Neither is it referring to the resurrection when used in the verse which follows it, even though it's speaking of Christ:

Acts 13:23 "Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised (egeiro) unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:"

It is clear by the context that the above verse is not referring to the resurrection of Jesus.

Neither is the Greek word egeiro referring to the resurrection when used in the verses below:

Acts 12:7 "And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised (egeiro) him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands."

Acts 3:6-7 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up (egeiro) and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up (egeiro): and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up (egeiro), saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man."

Again, the word egeiro is not referring to the resurrection in any of the above verses.

The context of the verse always shows whether or not egeiro is referring to the resurrection.

2. Anastasis

In contrast to the above, every single time the Greek word anastasis is used in the verses below, it is clear by the context that it's referring specifically and unambiguously to the bodily resurrection of the dead. The verses are:

Matthew 22:31; Luke 20:35-36; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:33; Romans 6:5; Philippians 3:10 .

Your whole argument quoted above this line of this post is based on your false assumption regarding the Greek words egeiro and anastasis.

Similarly, the other Greek word anastasis (Strong’s 386), which is identified several times in Scripture with the new birth spiritual resurrection

"with the new birth spiritual resurrection."

Again, there is absolutely ZERO truth in that statement. As we have seen above, your whole argument is based on reading into scripture what is not there, based on your false assumptions.

There is nowhere that scripture calls the quickening of the human spirit by the Spirit of God (the spiritual new-birth experience), "a or the" (spiritual) resurrection. This belief exists only in your own mind because in order to have developed and maintain your belief in what you say, in your mind you add the word "resurrection" whenever the new birth is spoken of (even though it's not there), and leave out all the New Testament verses which use the Greek word egeiro which are not even talking about any resurrection.

The only way any individual born into the world post-the-fall-of-Adam can be resurrected from the dead spiritually is if the individual was born into this world spiritually alive and then died spiritually - then and only then can an individual post-the-fall-of-Adam be resurrected spiritually. But we are born spiritually dead. When God breathes the Life of the Spirit of Christ in us, we become a new creature ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 ).

 

[BABerean2]

The above is not true at all. The following proves that everything you have said above is based on your assumption which has caused you to read things into scripture that simply are not there. This is evident from the difference between the Greek words egeiro and anastasis, which can easily be seen below:

1. Egeiro

Firstly, there are quite a few verses containing the Greek word egeiro where the context of the verse is clearly not referring to any resurrection:

Acts 13:21-22 "And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

And when he had removed him, he raised up (Greek egeiro) unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will."

Note: The word egeiro in Acts 13:22 is not speaking of the resurrection. Neither is it referring to the resurrection when used in the verse which follows it, even though it's speaking of Christ:

Acts 13:23 "Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised (egeiro) unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:"

It is clear by the context that the above verse is not referring to the resurrection of Jesus.

Neither is the Greek word egeiro referring to the resurrection when used in the verses below:

Acts 12:7 "And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised (egeiro) him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands."

Acts 3:6-7 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up (egeiro) and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up (egeiro): and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up (egeiro), saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man."

Again, the word egeiro is not referring to the resurrection in any of the above verses.

The context of the verse always shows whether or not egeiro is referring to the resurrection.

2. Anastasis

In contrast to the above, every single time the Greek word anastasis is used in the verses below, it is clear by the context that it's referring specifically and unambiguously to the bodily resurrection of the dead. The verses are:

Matthew 22:31; Luke 20:35-36; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:33; Romans 6:5; Philippians 3:10 .

Your whole argument quoted above this line of this post is based on your false assumption regarding the Greek words egeiro and anastasis.



"with the new birth spiritual resurrection."

Again, there is absolutely ZERO truth in that statement. As we have seen above, your whole argument is based on reading into scripture what is not there, based on your false assumptions.

There is nowhere that scripture calls the quickening of the human spirit by the Spirit of God (the spiritual new-birth experience), "a or the" (spiritual) resurrection. This belief exists only in your own mind because in order to have developed and maintain your belief in what you say, in your mind you add the word "resurrection" whenever the new birth is spoken of (even though it's not there), and leave out all the New Testament verses which use the Greek word egeiro which are not even talking about any resurrection.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


What would you call it when a person is passed from death to life?


(CJB) Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the One who sent me has eternal life -- that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life!

(ESV) Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(Geneva) Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(Greek NT TR) αμην αμην λεγω υμιν οτι ο τον λογον μου ακουων και πιστευων τω πεμψαντι με εχει ζωην αιωνιον και εις κρισιν ουκ ερχεται αλλα μεταβεβηκεν εκ του θανατου εις την ζωην

(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+) Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

(NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(NLT) “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

(YLT) 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

.

 

[Zao is life]

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


What would you call it when a person is passed from death to life?


(CJB) Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the One who sent me has eternal life -- that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life!

(ESV) Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(Geneva) Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(Greek NT TR) αμην αμην λεγω υμιν οτι ο τον λογον μου ακουων και πιστευων τω πεμψαντι με εχει ζωην αιωνιον και εις κρισιν ουκ ερχεται αλλα μεταβεβηκεν εκ του θανατου εις την ζωην

(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+) Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

(NKJV) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(NLT) “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

(YLT) 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

It's a new creation.

The only way any individual born into the world post-the-fall-of-Adam can be resurrected from the dead spiritually is if the individual was born into this world spiritually alive and then died spiritually - then and only then can an individual post-the-fall-of-Adam be resurrected spiritually. But we are born spiritually dead.

When God breathes the Life of the Spirit of Christ into us, we become a new creature ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 ).

 

[BABerean2]

The only way any individual born into the world post-the-fall-of-Adam can be resurrected from the dead spiritually is if the individual was born into this world spiritually alive and then died spiritually -

I am glad you agree that John 5:24 is about a spiritual resurrection from the dead.
I agree 100%.

.

 

[Zao is life]

I am glad you agree that John 5:24 is about a spiritual resurrection from the dead.
I agree 100%.
.

I'm glad you agree 100% that the word resurrection and the concept of resurrection from the dead refers only to someone who was alive, died and was raised again. So you agree that because no one except Christ was born alive spiritually following the fall of Adam. the spiritual new-birth experience is not a "resurrection from the dead".

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

New creation is not the same as resurrection from death after having lived and died.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Abraham and the old testiment saints never recieved the land promised to Abraham.
The city which comes down out of heaven does not come down out of heaven till AFTER the 1000 year reign with Christ on the property promised to Abraham and his seed.
Abraham will receive a city built by God but all in due time. Revelation shows when that city shall come down to earth where the saints live.

You don't get it! The saints never die. Jesus said in Matthew 22:32, “I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Jesus said in Mark 12:27 records, “He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.”

Jesus said in Luke 20:38 records, “For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”

 

[sovereigngrace]

The above is not true at all. The following proves that everything you have said above is based on your assumption which has caused you to read things into scripture that simply are not there. This is evident from the difference between the Greek words egeiro and anastasis, which can easily be seen below:

1. Egeiro

Firstly, there are quite a few verses containing the Greek word egeiro where the context of the verse is clearly not referring to any resurrection:

Acts 13:21-22 "And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

And when he had removed him, he raised up (Greek egeiro) unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will."

Note: The word egeiro in Acts 13:22 is not speaking of the resurrection. Neither is it referring to the resurrection when used in the verse which follows it, even though it's speaking of Christ:

Acts 13:23 "Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised (egeiro) unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:"

It is clear by the context that the above verse is not referring to the resurrection of Jesus.

Neither is the Greek word egeiro referring to the resurrection when used in the verses below:

Acts 12:7 "And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised (egeiro) him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands."

Acts 3:6-7 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up (egeiro) and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up (egeiro): and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up (egeiro), saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man."

Again, the word egeiro is not referring to the resurrection in any of the above verses.

The context of the verse always shows whether or not egeiro is referring to the resurrection.

2. Anastasis

In contrast to the above, every single time the Greek word anastasis is used in the verses below, it is clear by the context that it's referring specifically and unambiguously to the bodily resurrection of the dead. The verses are:

Matthew 22:31; Luke 20:35-36; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:33; Romans 6:5; Philippians 3:10 .

Your whole argument quoted above this line of this post is based on your false assumption regarding the Greek words egeiro and anastasis.



"with the new birth spiritual resurrection."

Again, there is absolutely ZERO truth in that statement. As we have seen above, your whole argument is based on reading into scripture what is not there, based on your false assumptions.

There is nowhere that scripture calls the quickening of the human spirit by the Spirit of God (the spiritual new-birth experience), "a or the" (spiritual) resurrection. This belief exists only in your own mind because in order to have developed and maintain your belief in what you say, in your mind you add the word "resurrection" whenever the new birth is spoken of (even though it's not there), and leave out all the New Testament verses which use the Greek word egeiro which are not even talking about any resurrection.

The only way any individual born into the world post-the-fall-of-Adam can be resurrected from the dead spiritually is if the individual was born into this world spiritually alive and then died spiritually - then and only then can an individual post-the-fall-of-Adam be resurrected spiritually. But we are born spiritually dead. When God breathes the Life of the Spirit of Christ in us, we become a new creature ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 ).

You are ducking around the issue. We are talking about passages that are talking about bringing a person from death into life. How does God bring a man from death unto life - spiritually and physically?

 

[Zao is life]

You are ducking around the issue. We are talking about passages that are talking about bringing a person from death into life. How does God bring a man from death unto life - spiritually and physically?

No you are ducking the issue. Does resurrection from death not refer to an individual who was alive, died and was raised again?

Hope you will answer the question.

 

[Zao is life]

Show us in ANY translation of the New Testament into English where the translator has used the word "resurrection" in reference to being born again. Find just one and I will forever hold my peace on this.

If you don't at least try to find such a use, then it will be you in denial of our point of view. There MUST BE some English translation that uses "resurrection" for being born again.

The arguments they put forward for this erroneous belief are based on false assumptions leading to them reading things into the text that are not there. See my post #42

 

[sovereigngrace]

No you are ducking the issue. Does resurrection from death not refer to an individual who was alive, died and was raised again?

Hope you will answer the question.

No. You really don't get it. We are born spiritually dead. You Do not seem to get the doctrine of total depravity. Man is born totally depraved. He is born in sin and iniquity.

The Bible teaches that unsaved man is not able to save himself, nor to initiate it, nor to help it along, nor even to desire it: The unregenerate do not seek God (Romans 3:10); they are unable to hear Jesus' words (Jn.8:43,44); not able to accept nor to understand the things of the Spirit of God (1Cor.2:14); are not able to submit to God's law (Rom.8:7); not able to please God (v.8); not able to see the light of the gospel, because they are spiritually blind (2Cor.4:4); they are not able to come to Christ (Jn.6:44). The Bible says they are dead in sin (Eph.2:1, 5). Unsaved man is a prisoner of sin (Gal. 3:22).

Psalm 14:3 declares, speaking of man, “there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”

Ecclesiastes 3:12 says, “I know that there is no good in them.”

Isaiah 64:6 declares, “We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.”

Man is fallen. Being outside of Christ he is a rebel.

1 Cor 15:22: "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Rom 5:18-19: "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (the righteousness of how man?) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (the obedience of how man?) shall many be made righteous."

 

[Zao is life]

I will resubmit this, as it was carefully avoided by you and other Premils on another thread. This is further supporting evidence to support my above contention.

See my post #42 in this thread. What you say about the Greek word egeiro is false.

It is a scriptural fact, for someone to move from death and the grave (in the natural or the spiritual) to life (of either type) requires of necessity resurrection.

It's a scriptural fact that for someone to be raised again he had to be have been alive. died and raised again.

Of all those born into the world after the fall of Adam, only Christ was born spiritually alive.

You conflate (new) birth and the new creation in Christ with being raised again from the dead after having died. You had to be alive physically to have died physically. You had to have died physically in order to be raised again (resurrected from the dead) physically.

But we were never alive spiritually so we never died spiritually so we were not raised again from death spiritually. We were born again:

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If you claim that you were resurrected spiritually when you were born of the Spirit of God spiritually, it means you were spiritually alive, then you died spiritually, then you were raised again.

Everything you have been saying are expressions of the theological castles of sand you have built upon the foundation of false assumptions and reading into scripture what is not there (eisegesis). Those castles of sand you have built on top of those foundations are on the sea's side of the high tide mark. They will be washed away when Jesus returns and then you will see this fallacy clearly - but if your faith is in Christ and not in yourself you will nevertheless be in the millennium.

 

[Zao is life]

No. You really don't get it. We are born spiritually dead.

Thank you. You've just admitted that spiritual rebirth is not resurrection from spiritual death - because in order to be resurrected spiritually you had to have been alive spiritually and then died spiritually.

You've been conflating new birth with resurrection from death.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The arguments they put forward for this erroneous belief are based on false assumptions leading to them reading things into the text that are not there. See my post #42

That is all you have - personal opinion. There are multiple Scripture that supports the Amil opposition, but Premillennialism has no corroboration for its opinion of "the first resurrection." No Premillennialist can bring anything evidential to the table aprat from dismissing repeated Scripture.

Acts 17:30-31 says, “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”

1 Peter 3:21 witnesses: “baptism (talking about being baptized into Christ’s death upon salvation) doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

We were legally represented “in Christ” in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented “in Adam” when he fell, we were justified in the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured. The Lord’s resurrection spelt defeat for all unrighteousness. Every enemy of God was defeated in the glorious resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:14 & 17 makes clear: “if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain ... if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.”

Why? Christ’s resurrection secured our salvation. In fact, there is no eternal life apart from resurrection. If Christ had simply died and remained in the grave then there would be no victory over sin, death and the grave. Christ took upon Himself our sin (being made sin for us). He was punished for our sin. He conquered our sin by paying the full penalty for it on Calvary’s tree. Christ then defeating sin, death and the grave through His victorious resurrection from the dead.

Ephesians 2:5: “Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ (aorist active indicative) with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).”

When it comes to salvation, John often presents an absolute truth embodying a condition immediately followed by a promise. The promise either refers to experiencing eternal bliss or victory over eternal punishment. Please look at the following evidence from the same author (John) in John's Gospel and 1 John. See his repeated emphasis on only one single means of overcoming (or escaping) “the second death” (eternal punishment).

Jesus said in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (present active particle) in him should not perish, but have (present active subjunctive) everlasting life.”

Currently believing carefully corresponds with currently experiencing “everlasting life." It is a present reality for the elect, not merely a future hope. That is so because God lives within us now.

John 3:36 says, “He that believeth on the Son hath (present active indicative) everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God (the second death) abideth on him.”

If you don't possess eternal life now you will not possess it in the life to come. Only those who possess it now will never die.

Jesus said in John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath (present active indicative) everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death (or experience the second death) unto life.”

He continues in the next verse (John 5:25): “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

The transition from death to life both spiritually and physically occurs by way of resurrection. There is no other way. This is demonstrated many times in Scripture in regard to both spiritual and physical resurrection.

Jesus said in John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath (present active indicative) everlasting life.”

The word “hath” here is a present tense word which means now or at this present time.

Jesus said in John 6:50-51, 54&58: “This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world … Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life … he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”

John 8:51-52 Christ said to the Pharisees, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death (or experience the second death) … If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.”

Jesus said in John 10:27-28: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give (present active indicative) unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish (or experience the second death), neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Jesus says, in John 11:25, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth (present active particle) and believeth (present active particle) in me shall never die (or experience the second death)."

These bodies are not eternal or immortal. Our spirits are. That is 101 Christianity. These bodies die. What is more we experience eternal life upon salvation. The Christian will live for and never die because the Spirit of God within.

John 17:3: “And this is (present, active, indicative) life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

I John 5:11-13 says, “God hath given (aorist active indicative) to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath (present active particle) the Son hath (present active particle) life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have (present active indicative) eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

To have Christ is to have eternal life. That simple! Not to have Christ is not to have eternal life. That simple!

John is describing a current reality in Revelation 20:6. It says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

 

[ViaCrucis]

So if someone asks a question as to what someone believe they are actually misrepresenting what that person believes?

You know very well that you are being disingenuous here.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zao is life]

That is all you have - personal opinion. There are multiple Scripture that supports the Amil opposition, but Premillennialism has no corroboration for its opinion of "the first resurrection." No Premillennialist can bring anything evidential to the table aprat from dismissing repeated Scripture.

Acts 17:30-31 says, “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”

1 Peter 3:21 witnesses: “baptism (talking about being baptized into Christ’s death upon salvation) doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

We were legally represented “in Christ” in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented “in Adam” when He fell, we were justified in the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured. The Lord’s resurrection spelt defeat for all unrighteousness. Every enemy of God was defeated in the glorious resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:14 & 17 makes clear: “if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain ... if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.”

Why? Christ’s resurrection secured our salvation. In fact, there is no eternal life apart from resurrection. If Christ had simply died and remained in the grave then there would be no victory over sin, death and the grave. Christ took upon Himself our sin (being made sin for us). He was punished for our sin. He conquered our sin by paying the full penalty for it on Calvary’s tree. Christ then defeating sin, death and the grave through His victorious resurrection from the dead.

Ephesians 2:5: “Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ (aorist active indicative) with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).”

When it comes to salvation, John often presents an absolute truth embodying a condition immediately followed by a promise. The promise either refers to experiencing eternal bliss or victory over eternal punishment. Please look at the following evidence from the same author (John) in John's Gospel and 1 John. See his repeated emphasis on only one single means of overcoming (or escaping) “the second death” (eternal punishment).

Jesus said in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (present active particle) in him should not perish, but have (present active subjunctive) everlasting life.”

Currently believing carefully corresponds with currently experiencing “everlasting life." It is a present reality for the elect, not merely a future hope. That is so because God lives within us now.

John 3:36 says, “He that believeth on the Son hath (present active indicative) everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God (the second death) abideth on him.”

If you don't possess eternal life now you will not possess it in the life to come. Only those who possess it now will never die.

Jesus said in John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath (present active indicative) everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death (or experience the second death) unto life.”

He continues in the next verse (John 5:25): “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

The transition from death to life both spiritually and physically occurs by way of resurrection. There is no other way. This is demonstrated many times in Scripture in regard to both spiritual and physical resurrection.

Jesus said in John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath (present active indicative) everlasting life.”

The word “hath” here is a present tense word which means now or at this present time.

Jesus said in John 6:50-51, 54&58: “This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world … Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life … he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”

John 8:51-52 Christ said to the Pharisees, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death (or experience the second death) … If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.”

Jesus said in John 10:27-28: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give (present active indicative) unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish (or experience the second death), neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Jesus says, in John 11:25, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth (present active particle) and believeth (present active particle) in me shall never die (or experience the second death)."

These bodies are not eternal or immortal. Our spirits are. That is 101 Christianity. These bodies die. What is more we experience eternal life upon salvation. The Christian will live for and never die because the Spirit of God within.

John 17:3: “And this is (present, active, indicative) life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

I John 5:11-13 says, “God hath given (aorist active indicative) to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath (present active particle) the Son hath (present active particle) life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have (present active indicative) eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

To have Christ is to have eternal life. That simple! Not to have Christ is not to have eternal life. That simple!


John is describing a current reality in Revelation 20:6. It says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

It's a scriptural fact that for someone to be raised again he had to be have been alive. died and raised again.

Of all those born into the world after the fall of Adam, only Christ was born spiritually alive.

You conflate (new) birth and the new creation in Christ with being raised again from the dead after having died. You had to be alive physically to have died physically. You had to have died physically in order to be raised again (resurrected from the dead) physically.

But we were never alive spiritually so we never died spiritually so we were not raised again from death spiritually. We were born again:

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If you claim that you were resurrected spiritually when you were born of the Spirit of God spiritually, it means you were spiritually alive, then you died spiritually, then you were raised again.

Everything you have been saying are expressions of the theological castles of sand you have built upon the foundation of false assumptions and reading into scripture what is not there (eisegesis). Those castles of sand you have built on top of those foundations are on the sea's side of the high tide mark. They will be washed away when Jesus returns and then you will see this fallacy clearly - but if your faith is in Christ and not in yourself you will nevertheless be in the millennium.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Thank you. You've just admitted that spiritual rebirth is not resurrection from spiritual death - because in order to be resurrected spiritually you had to have been alive spiritually and then died spiritually.

You've been conflating new birth with resurrection from death.

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." - Ephesians 2:1-7

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His. We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we should no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we also live with Him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death He died He died to sin, once for all, but the life He lives He lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus." - Romans 6:1-11

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zao is life]

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." - Ephesians 2:1-7

-CryptoLutheran

The key words are "together with Christ".

Christ is alive. He was raised,. You were born again.

Were you alive spiritually before you died spiritually? How then can you have been raised again (resurrected) from spiritual death?

 

[DavidPT]

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Most, including Amils, don't dispute that these martyrs were physically alive initially, then they physically died at some point. What begs the question, then. When are they martyred? Are they martyred before they live again and are reigning with Christ a thousand years? Or are they martyred while they are living again and reigning with Christ a thousand years?

Speaking for myself, I see zero logic in the latter. To be resurrected means to live again. These that are martyred in verse 4, when would they have a need to live again? Before they are martyred, or after they have been martyred? Let's use Christ as an example. Clearly, He was martyred. Did He have a need to live again before He was martyred, or after He had been martyred? How ever one answers that should be the exact same way they should answer the same question in regards to the martyrs in verse 4.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The key words are "together with Christ".

Christ is alive. He was raised,. You were born again.

Were you alive spiritually before you died spiritually? How then can you have been raised again (resurrected) from spiritual death?

I died with Christ in my baptism, having been buried with Him, and then raised with Him to newness of life. And so now in Jesus Christ I am alive to God, made alive by the Holy Spirit who lives in me, who is also the promise and guarantee that I will be raised up on the last day when Christ returns in glory.

So I have died spiritually and raised spiritually in Christ to life and reconciliation to God, with the promise that I shall be raised bodily from the dead on the last day.

-CryptoLutheran