Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24

[SabbathBlessings]

For the hundredth time, per Paul, keeping the Sabbath is not required.

Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.​

​

That appears you to be saying it, not Paul. It does not say you do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment; you are adding those words. If you read the whole passage in context you will see its not about the Sabbath commandment. If God was going to "do away" with one of His commandments, He would have spelled that out for us, like He did when He wrote it. Sabbath worship continues as the perpetual promise of God Exodus 31:16 as shown fulfilled for eternity Isaiah 66:23, God will not force anyone to worship Him on the Sabbath in heaven and if we don't want to now, He will not force one in heaven.

 

[John Mullally]

What? Show through the passage of Hebrews 4:1-11 that it is saying that in it’s context.

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Okay so you can’t do it. That’s okay it is a difficult passage most can’t. With that being a fact why are you saying it says something even though you do not understand the passage well enough to explain it?

You presented me a guessing game, where you don’t specify with any clarity what you are asking. Try asking non-vague intelligent questions.

 

[eleos1954]

How does Acts 15:23-29 read to you? Frankly Acts 15:24 is a rebuke!

It's talking about circumcision.

One of the things we know from the history of Israel is as much as God implored them to live in obedience and consecration, they struggled with this often turning away from God’s commands. Part of the reason was they had no ability to change their hearts. However, notice what God told Israel later in the same book of Deuteronomy.

“The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.” – Deuteronomy 30:6

In this instance notice who was doing the circumcision; it was God. This circumcision of the heart was initiated by God, and it was done for one reason, so they could love him. This could be seen as a foreshadowing of the things to come because we like Israel have no ability to change our hearts unless God intervenes.

In Romans 2 Paul lays out an argument against those who are Jews and are holding on to some level of spiritual superiority simply because they were circumcised (physically). Paul is making a clear distinction between religious tradition which doesn’t save, and circumcision of the heart which does. Following religious ceremony and holding up all the outward appearances mean absolutely nothing if there is no change in the heart. Paul then says these words in the same chapter.

“A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.” – Romans 2:28-29

so ... we are being circumcised .... in our hearts.

 

[John Mullally]

That appears you to be saying it, not Pal. It does not say you do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment; you are adding those words. If you read the whole passage in context you will see its not about the Sabbath commandment. If Go was going to "do away" with one of His commandments, He would have spelled that out for us. Sabbath worship continues as the perpetual promise of God Exodus 31:16 as shown fulfilled for eternity Isaiah 66:23

Another guessing game presented to me. Make your point and question clear.

 

[John Mullally]

It's talking about circumcision.

One of the things we know from the history of Israel is as much as God implored them to live in obedience and consecration, they struggled with this often turning away from God’s commands. Part of the reason was they had no ability to change their hearts. However, notice what God told Israel later in the same book of Deuteronomy.

“The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.” – Deuteronomy 30:6

In this instance notice who was doing the circumcision; it was God. This circumcision of the heart was initiated by God, and it was done for one reason, so they could love him. This could be seen as a foreshadowing of the things to come because we like Israel have no ability to change our hearts unless God intervenes.

In Romans 2 Paul lays out an argument against those who are Jews and are holding on to some level of spiritual superiority simply because they were circumcised (physically). Paul is making a clear distinction between religious tradition which doesn’t save, and circumcision of the heart which does. Following religious ceremony and holding up all the outward appearances mean absolutely nothing if there is no change in the heart. Paul then says these words in the same chapter.

“A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.” – Romans 2:28-29

so ... we are being circumcised .... in our hearts.

Acts 15:23-29 includes circumcision. It identifies all the Mosaic Law that Gentiles are required to observe. Keeping the Sabbath is conspicuous by its absence. Paul re-iterates the portions of the Mosaic Law that Gentiles are to observer.

 

[HIM]

You presented me a guessing game, where you don’t specify with any clarity what you are asking. Try asking non-vague intelligent questions.

Explain the context of chapter 4:1-10 in Hebrews in relation to what you believe it teaches. Verse by verse please. Thanks in advance.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus was in Jerusalem and healed a paralytic by a pool at Bethesda. The Jews accused him of working on the Sabbath. Jesus responded

John 5:16-18 (WEB)
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

There are a number of laws that appear to conflict with each other, such as when God commanded priests to rest on the Sabbath, but also commanded priests to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10), however it is not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 12:5-7 that priests who did their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why Jesus defended his disciples as being innocent. This is also why it is lawful to circumcise a baby boy on the 8th day if it happens to fall on the Sabbath or why it is lawful to get an ox or a child out of a ditch on the Sabbath.

Some of the Pharisees had reasoned that it is unlawful to do work on the Sabbath and that healing is work, therefore it is unlawful to heal on the Sabbath. However, we are also commanded to love our neighbor and no command was intended to be understood as preventing the greatest two commandments from being obeyed, which is why Jesus considered it to be lawful to heal on the Sabbath. It is contradictory to think that Jesus was correct about it being lawful to heal on the Sabbath and that those Pharisees were correct about Jesus breaking the Sabbath by healing on it. It is lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so those Pharisees were incorrect even though John 5:16-18 correctly states the reason that they wanted to kill him. Jesus was sinless and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), which includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so to think that those Pharisees were correct is to suggest that Jesus sinned and therefore to deny that he is our Savior. Rather, there are some forms of work that Jesus did that were never intended to be prohibited by the Sabbath, which does not mean that there aren't other forms of works that are still prohibited by the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Acts 15:23-29 includes circumcision. It identifies all the Mosaic Law that Gentiles are required to observe. Keeping the Sabbath is conspicuous by its absence. Paul re-iterates the portions of the Mosaic Law that Gentiles are to observer.

By this reasoning gentiles can worship other gods since that was conspicuous by its absence. We could really apply this theory to so much wickedness and sin. Sin by the way is defined as breaking the law 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin Romans 7:7 which came in a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28, not nine or eight. Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, spoken and written by God.

 

[John Mullally]

Explain the context of chapter 4:1-10 in Hebrews in relation to what you believe it teaches. Verse by verse please. Thanks in advance.

No.

 

[John Mullally]

By this reasoning gentiles can worship other gods since that was conspicuous by its absence. We could really apply this theory to so much wickedness and sin. Sin by the way is defined as breaking the law 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin Romans 7:7 which came in a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28, not nine or eight. Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, spoken and written by God.

Keeping the Sabbath is a commandment given by God to the Jews. I have made a sound argument per Acts 15:23-29 that it was not given to first century Gentile believers. Paul re-iterated that in Act 21:24-25.

All arguments against sin that list Jewish Law are that given to Jews. Of course, Gentiles had an understanding of right and wrong - but it did not coincide with Jewish Ceremonial Law and per Acts 15:23-29, Gentiles were not required to keep most Jewish Law.

Time for you all to stand down unless you want to fight against God!

Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.​

 

[HIM]

No.

Oh I see. That is what I thought. You should really be careful saying things about scripture that you yourself do not understand or can’t explain.
Take care

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Keeping the Sabbath is a commandment given by God to the Jews. I have made a sound argument per Acts 15:23-29 that it was not given to first century Gentile believers. Paul re-iterated that in Act 21:24-25.

All arguments against sin that list Jewish Law are that given to Jews. Of course, Gentiles had an understanding of right and wrong - but it did not coincide with Jewish Ceremonial Law and per Acts 15:23-29, Gentiles were not required to keep most Jewish Law.

Time for you all to stand down unless you want to fight against God!

Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.​

Already been addressed Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24 so looks like we will have to agree to disagree and this gets sorted out soon enough and I pray we will all be ready when He comes. God bless

 

[John Mullally]

Explain the context of chapter 4:1-10 in Hebrews in relation to what you believe it teaches. Verse by verse please. Thanks in advance.

No.

Oh I see. That is what I thought. You should really be careful saying things about scripture that you yourself do not understand or can’t explain.

What has my refusal to give commentary on 10 verses in Hebrews have to do with anything? Are you unable to parse them on your own?

The one who should "be careful saying things about scripture that you yourself do not understand" is the one taking a stance against Romans 14:5.

Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.​

 

[John Mullally]

Already been addressed Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24 so looks like we will have to agree to disagree and this gets sorted out soon enough and I pray we will all be ready when He comes. God bless

Jesus in Matthew 24 does not instruct anyone to keep the Sabbath. Matthew 24:20 does imply that the people in Judea will be keeping the Sabbath before His coming.

Paul says that keeping days (which includes the Sabbath) is up to the individual believer.

Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.​

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus in Matthew 24 does not instruct anyone to keep the Sabbath. Matthew 24:20 does imply that the people in Judea will be keeping the Sabbath before His coming.

Paul says that keeping days (which includes the Sabbath) is up to the individual believer.

Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.​

If you were to carefully and prayerfully read all of Romans 14 you will notice it never says the Sabbath. This is not a reference to the seventh day Sabbath that God deems above all other days Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13. If you look at the context of Romans 14 it has nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. Plus, if you look at the entire bible context you will see there is no scripture stating the Ten Commandments have ended up to the Second Coming of Jesus and furthermore the Sabbath in particular is still the day of worship in heaven Isaiah 66:23 so obviously you have a great misunderstanding of the holy scriptures. If the goal is to be with Jesus for all eternity, we should carefully follow the scriptures.

The Ten Commandments is God's law. God wrote it with His own finger on stone Exodus 31:18 God spoke it with His own voice Exodus 20 they came in a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and God's law is something that was given before sin Romans 4:15 so God's law is in heaven and from the very beginning because Lucifer sinned and was thrown. We already know God's law is in heaven Revelation 11:19 as it was placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God's Temple under His mercy seat where He dwells. I don't think God is going to be okay with people selecting the commandments they wish to keep in heaven and God will is the same for us on this earth as it is in heaven.

Lets see what the scripture says about God's commandments.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Right in the Ten God sets the precedence that we should keep His commandments through love. Also note, it is those who keep them God shows mercy to.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Paul says something very similar
1 Cor 7:19 keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

There are many places that state similar sentiments throughout the whole bible but lets just skip right before the Second Coming of Jesus to see if keeping the commandment of God is still man's all.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here the scripture shows the devil is enraged that God's people still keep His commandments and why would the devil care if it's just a "Jewish thing" the remnant means the small amount left over of the original, which is easy to identify considering the majority of churches no longer teach we need to keep the commandments of God all because they had to deal with the 4th commandment, the Sabbath so most churches would rather toss out the whole Ten than keep God's holy Sabbath commandment. This to me shows how much power is in God's Sabbath and why God's people who are a remnant keep the Sabbath commandment and it is a sign between God and His people according to God Ezekiel 20:20 and how God sanctifies us Ezekiel 20:12 because we can't sanctify ourselves.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The saints are the saved ones and I pray to be part of God's saints. Keeping the law of God won't save you, but being transformed through our relationship with Jesus will and those who have wants to keep the commandments of God because we love God so much and want to do what He asks of us even if that is denying our wants and desires one day a week to keep the ways of the Lord on His holy day. Isaiah 58:13

So the very last chapter and one of the very last verses in the scripture right before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ says this:

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs (sinners) and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16).

Whoever practices a lie will not enter into the gates of heaven....

This is what is said for those who claim to know God but do not keep His commandments

1 John2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

In regards to Matthew 24:20 that is a prophetic chapter and history repeats itself as we saw with God's people in scripture being persecuted, we see it in history where God's people were persecuted by the millions from the Roman Church during the dark ages and once again before Jesus comes God's people will be persecuted for keeping His commandments, but that's okay, because Jesus is coming!

 

[John Mullally]

Paul says that keeping days (which includes the Sabbath) is up to the individual believer.

Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.​

If you were to carefully and prayerfully read all of Romans 14 you will notice it never says the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is a day. Someone who "esteems every day alike" is one who does not observe the Sabbath. Paul has nothing bad to say to the one who does not observe the Sabbath. However, Romans 14:5 is a rebuke to you!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Sabbath is a day. Someone who "esteems every day alike" is one who does not observe the Sabbath. Paul has nothing bad to say to the one who does not observe the Sabbath. However, Romans 14:5 is a rebuke to you!

God is the CREATOR, not the creation and not a man. Romans 14:5 God esteems the Sabbath day above all other days according to God's own words Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3. Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23 and Romans 14 does not say you do not need to keep the Sabbath commandment. If you want to dig your heals in this one verse and ignore the plethora of scripture showing God's people keep God's commandments which of course that means the Sabbath commandment, which is seen continuing in Heaven for all eternity that is your free will, but I really don't recommend it. Romans 14 is referring to holy feasts day(s) and if one wants to keep them keep them unto the Lord, nothing to do with the day God esteems over all others. It's like talking about Easter and Christmas in our time, if one wants to keep them, keep them unto the Lord. The Ten Commandments are on a whole other foundation as they are God's Will and Testimony to His children that God personally spoke and God personally wrote. You break one you break them all. James 2:10-12, Matthew 5:19 Your disagreement here is not with me, but our Most High. God bless.

 

[eleos1954]

Acts 15:23-29 includes circumcision. It identifies all the Mosaic Law that Gentiles are required to observe. Keeping the Sabbath is conspicuous by its absence. Paul re-iterates the portions of the Mosaic Law that Gentiles are to observer.

we look at what His Word says ... not speculate on what it does not say.

Thous shalt not murder, covet, steal, bear false witness etc. are absent as well ... does that mean they are conspicuous by their absence?

Another example ...

James 2:10-20
10 Whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking them all.
11 For the same one who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not commit murder." Even if you do not commit adultery, you have become a lawbreaker if you commit murder.
12 Speak and act as people who will be judged by the law that sets us free.
13 For God will not show mercy when he judges the person who has not been merciful; but mercy triumphs over judgment.
14 My friends, what good is it for one of you to say that you have faith if your actions do not prove it? Can that faith save you?
15 Suppose there are brothers or sisters who need clothes and don't have enough to eat.
16 What good is there in your saying to them, "God bless you! Keep warm and eat well!" - if you don't give them the necessities of life?
17 So it is with faith: if it is alone and includes no actions, then it is dead.
18 But someone will say, "One person has faith, another has actions." My answer is, "Show me how anyone can have faith without actions. I will show you my faith by my actions."
19 Do you believe that there is only one God? Good! The demons also believe - and tremble with fear.
20 You fool! Do you want to be shown that faith without actions is useless?

Are we to think because not all of the 10 are not listed specifically they are not applicable? Of course not.

The Jews were in error thinking that physical circumcision was required for salvation.

Acts 15

1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

The question being addressed was about required to be physically circumcised as the Jews claimed.

IF ... as you are suggesting ... the 10 commandments are part of the Mosaic Law and therefore do not apply to gentiles ... then they are not required to keep any of them.

IF .... Jesus had not kept the 10 would have He sinned?

 

[John Mullally]

God is the CREATOR, not the creation and not a man. Romans 14:5 God esteems the Sabbath day above all other days according to God's own words Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3. Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23 and Romans 14 does not say you do not need to keep the Sabbath commandment. If you want to dig your heals in this one verse and ignore the plethora of scripture showing God's people keep God's commandments which of course that means the Sabbath commandment, which is seen continuing in Heaven for all eternity that is your free will, but I really don't recommend it. Romans 14 is referring to holy feasts day(s) and if one wants to keep them keep them unto the Lord, nothing to do with the day God esteems over all others. It's like talking about Easter and Christmas in our time, if one wants to keep them, keep them unto the Lord. The Ten Commandments are on a whole other foundation as they are God's Will and Testimony to His children that God personally spoke and God personally wrote. You break one you break them all. James 2:10-12, Matthew 5:19 Your disagreement here is not with me, but our Most High. God bless.

Romans 14:5 is referring to "day", not "feast day". Nice try.

The marching orders Jesus gave to His disciples in the Matthew 28 Great Commission includes the phrase "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you" - there is no mention of the 10 commandments. Although Jesus perfectly kept the Mosaic Law, He never commanded His disciples to "Keep the Sabbath" and He never rebuked anyone for not observing it. Likewise, the Apostles never commanded anyone to "Keep the Sabbath" and He never rebuked anyone for not observing it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Romans 14:5 is referring to "day", not "feast day". Nice try.

The marching orders Jesus gave to His disciples in the Matthew 28 Great Commission includes the phrase "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you" - there is no mention of the 10 commandments. Although Jesus perfectly kept the Mosaic Law, He never commanded His disciples to "Keep the Sabbath" and He never rebuked anyone for not observing it. Likewise, the Apostles never commanded anyone to "Keep the Sabbath" and He never rebuked anyone for not observing it.

Which is why you have to read it in context. It is referring to food and judging, not the holy day of the Lord thy God.

Romans 14:3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

There is no food references in the Sabbath commandment and you are reading that into Romans 14 which it clearly is not talking about.


Yes, lets look at the Great Commission....
Great Commission includes the phrase "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you"

What did the apostles observe.....the Sabbath- why because it is what Jesus commanded them! Which is why Paul preaches what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 and that includes the Sabbath that he and the apostles observed long after Jesus ascended back to heaven.


But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
- Acts 13:14

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4