Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24

[Lulav]

It is funny that you quote keep my commandments and of course since the subject is ten commandments you use "the commandments of God" as a reference.

Do you believe that Jesus is God? You seem to imply that He is not.

Jesus, on the other hand

There is no other 'hand'.

" I and the Father are one."​

John perfectly explains this:

1 In the beginning (back when God made the heavens and the earth and the days started, including the Seventh day)
was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (This includes the Sabbath, the sign of His creation. )​

tells us He kept His Father's commands, which was Torah

And again,

" I and the Father are one."​

and asks us to keep His command to love others as He loves us.

This is nothing new, but it is an example of how far to go. The Torah is full of ways to show love for God and your neighbor. This he was saying is the ultimate sacrifice, to lay one's life down for another. This was not required before because he hadn't come to earth yet.

He never mentions keeping Torah which contained the ten commandments.

You need to remember who he was talking to. When he said commandments they perfectly understood he was speaking of Torah.

Love is a much greater command. He went on to describe what true love would do. True love would give ones life for others.

Yes, as he demonstrated himself. It is called unselfish love, he was teaching them that is what the Father did for them, just like it was hinted at with Abraham and Issac.

I render "commandments of God: to mean love for God and our fellow man

Yes, as Jesus said the two Greatest commandments are these, but he also said that all the Law and Prophets hang off those two.

and not the keeping of the now defunct

How is it 'defunct' ?
The seventh day still exists, it will until time comes to an end.
Look at a calendar, It starts on 'Sunday' and ends on "Saturday" and is still called the seventh day. If it is now defunct then what does that say about this?

8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”​

If it is 'defunct' as you say then in reality he is the Lord of nothing.

Kinda like the old Honeymooners show, you remember that? Ralph going off on Alice and telling her that he was the Boss, and she was nothing. Pointing at himself he says "Boss" and then pointing at her he says "Nothing". So then in typical Alice style she says
"Then you're the Boss of Nothing."

weekly Sabbath that ended at Calvary where Jesus gave us the new and better covenant, the one with better promises.

No it did not end and still hasn't. How can a day end? We still have seven days in the week do we not?
There is someone who doesn't want us to acknowledge this. The actual commandment is to remember it because our God is the creator who made all things, and there was nothing made that he (Jesus) didn't make.

The covenant ( the marriage contract ) was renewed, with Israel. It was not done away with but improved upon as Jesus was teaching, such as mercy and not sacrifice.

 

[Lulav]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of A Sabbath Day's journey here. (Or maybe there wasn't I missed it?)

It sounds like it's implied in Jesus' instruction to pray that we don't have to flee on the Sabbath.

Probably because it's not a commandment, it is a Rabbi's decree, just like other interpretations on what is 'work'.

 

[Leaf473]

Probably because it's not a commandment, it is a Rabbi's decree, just like other interpretations on what is 'work'.

My impression is that it was based on an interpretation of Exodus 16,
Everyone stay in his place. Let no one go out of his place on the seventh day.

And yes, it talks about gathering manna right before that.

So some people see it as a continuation of that thought, don't leave your place specifically to gather manna.

But it can also be seen as just a general commandment which includes gathering manner. It depends where one breaks the thought imo. Also, Acts 1 implies that the Sabbath Day's journey was something of significance to the apostles.

Anyways, what do you see as the advantage of fleeing on another day as opposed to the Sabbath, especially if travel is unrestricted?

 

[Bob S]

Exod 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Trying to win an argument? That certainly is not a command to love now is it?

 

[HIM]

Trying to win an argument? That certainly is not a command to love now is it?

No it is a prerequisite. We only get mercy if we love God and keep His commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

Trying to win an argument? That certainly is not a command to love now is it?

Back to the thread topic...

Probably because it's not a commandment, it is a Rabbi's decree, just like other interpretations on what is 'work'.

Amen to that!

Yes, as Jesus said the two Greatest commandments are these, but he also said that all the Law and Prophets hang off those two.

Amen to that!

How is it 'defunct' ?
The seventh day still exists, it will until time comes to an end.
Look at a calendar, It starts on 'Sunday' and ends on "Saturday" and is still called the seventh day. If it is now defunct then what does that say about this?

Amen

 

[BobRyan]

1jn3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Jesus is asked "Which commandments" should be kept in Matt 19 - and as it turns out - He did not limit the list to "believe me" or "believe in my name". He included a few more in the list He gave.

Some will say "yes but Jesus did not list 'Do not take God's name in vain' in his Matt 19" and I will say - yes that is true - His list in Matt 19 was not exhaustive every every text of scripture that still applies.

John says "this IS the LOVE of God that we keep his commandments" all of them.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that "Honor your father and mother" is the "first commandment with a promise" - in that list of God's commandments that we are to keep.

 

[Bob S]

Jesus is asked "Which commandments" should be kept in Matt 19 - and as it turns out - He did not limit the list to "believe me" or "believe in my name". He included a few more in the list He gave.

Some will say "yes but Jesus did not list 'Do not take God's name in vain' in his Matt 19" and I will say - yes that is true - His list in Matt 19 was not exhaustive every every text of scripture that still applies.

John says "this IS the LOVE of God that we keep his commandments" all of them.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that "Honor your father and mother" is the "first commandment with a promise" - in that list of God's commandments that we are to keep.

In all of your posts you imply that keeping the commandments means the ten commandments. The problem is that there is no sound evidence that it implies ten. If it did then we would not have to love our neighbor because nothing in the ten tells us to love. Every one of them implies duty. Every one of those ten could have been accomplished out of obligation or commitment.

As I keep writing concerning 1Jn 3: 4 if you continue reading 1Jn3 you will find in verse 19 a statement that WE BELONG TO THE TRUTH and goes on to explain what the TRUTH is. starting in verse 22 tells us exactly what those commands are. We are of the TRUTH 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

Allow the scripture to speak for itself Bob. It is not sound reasoning to IMPLY. Without verses like 1Jn 3:19-24 we would be in complete darkness as to what keeping the commandments really imply. God has given man hundreds of commandments.

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus is asked "Which commandments" should be kept in Matt 19 - and as it turns out - He did not limit the list to "believe me" or "believe in my name". He included a few more in the list He gave.

Some will say "yes but Jesus did not list 'Do not take God's name in vain' in his Matt 19" and I will say - yes that is true - His list in Matt 19 was not exhaustive every every text of scripture that still applies.

John says "this IS the LOVE of God that we keep his commandments" all of them.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that "Honor your father and mother" is the "first commandment with a promise" - in that list of God's commandments that we are to keep.

_____________________

His list in Matt 19 was not exhaustive every every text of scripture that still applies.

Is there an exhaustive list that you endorse?
Leviticus 19:37
“‘You shall observe all my statutes and all my ordinances, and do them. I am the Lord.’”

 

[eleos1954]

In all of your posts you imply that keeping the commandments means the ten commandments. The problem is that there is no sound evidence that it implies ten. If it did then we would not have to love our neighbor because nothing in the ten tells us to love. Every one of them implies duty. Every one of those ten could have been accomplished out of obligation or commitment.

As I keep writing concerning 1Jn 3: 4 if you continue reading 1Jn3 you will find in verse 19 a statement that WE BELONG TO THE TRUTH and goes on to explain what the TRUTH is. starting in verse 22 tells us exactly what those commands are. We are of the TRUTH 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

Allow the scripture to speak for itself Bob. It is not sound reasoning to IMPLY. Without verses like 1Jn 3:19-24 we would be in complete darkness as to what keeping the commandments really imply. God has given man hundreds of commandments.

If it did then we would not have to love our neighbor because nothing in the ten tells us to love

Looking at the 2nd table of the 10 commandments .... if we treat one another in that same regard .... they express (display or show) our love for one another .... ie if we love one another we will not do these things to one another ..... (key word willingly) ... the 10 are commandments of Love, love towards God and love towards one another.

Love is not a forced action .... one can not "command/force" love ... to love or not to love is a choice.

IF you love me (choice) you will (willingly) keep my commandments an expression of love (display or show).

Love according to the Lord is not just an emotional thought/feeling ..... it is thought that is manifested (becomes visible or obvious)

God's definition of love is putting others before self ... it (love) will be seen ... and we saw love in full display (expressed/visible/obvious) of Jesus on the cross.

The 10 is the (short) list of what love looks like .... Jesus then throughout His ministry showed by the way He lived His life what the depth of love (depth of the 10) looks like (visible).

There is indeed great depth contained in the word Love .... goes far beyond an emotional feeling .... love becomes visible.

 

[Lulav]

This is the Law of Love as Messiah explained it.

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Deut 6:5
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ----Leviticus 19:18
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Bob S]

Looking at the 2nd table of the 10 commandments .... if we treat one another in that same regard .... they express (display or show) our love for one another .... ie if we love one another we will not do these things to one another ..... (key word willingly) ... the 10 are commandments of Love, love towards God and love towards one another.

Love is not a forced action .... one can not "command/force" love ... to love or not to love is a choice.

IF you love me (choice) you will (willingly) keep my commandments an expression of love (display or show).

Love according to the Lord is not just an emotional thought/feeling ..... it is thought that is manifested (becomes visible or obvious)

God's definition of love is putting others before self ... it (love) will be seen ... and we saw love in full display (expressed/visible/obvious) of Jesus on the cross.

The 10 is the (short) list of what love looks like .... Jesus then throughout His ministry showed by the way He lived His life what the depth of love (depth of the 10) looks like (visible).

There is indeed great depth contained in the word Love .... goes far beyond an emotional feeling .... love becomes visible.

This is the Law of Love as Messiah explained it.

View attachment 324319

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Deut 6:5
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ----Leviticus 19:18
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Both of you completely miss my point. Love is not commanded in the ten commandments. Sure, if the Israelites loved God and their fellow man, they would love to do what God instructed them to do out of that love. They could also do them out of fear or obligation. Why is that so hard to see and understand? By the way 2Cor3:6-11 tells us the ten commandments were the ministry of death. The KJV tells us they were done away, other versions tell us they were only temporary. The Holy Spirit has been given to all mankind as our guide. Notice the verses that are in past tense. That should tell us something.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Then there is Eph2:14-15 to be reckoned with. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

The Law was the barrier that kept Jews and Gentiles separated. I thank our Savior for the new command He gave us in Jn15:9-14 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

What were the commands that Jesus kept? Of course they were the commands of the old covenant. Jesus in those verses is telling us in those verses it is not the commands He kept that we are to keep, it is the new and better way we are to live our lives while waiting for eternity. What the World need is Love sweet Love.

 

[Clare73]

This is the Law of Love as Messiah explained it.

View attachment 324319

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Deut 6:5
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ----Leviticus 19:18

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Actually, that is a command, not a prophecy.

And NT apostolic teaching completes that command regarding its NT requirements in Ro 13:8-10:

"The commandments. . .and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' . . Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Love of God and love of neighbor as oneself (committed to their well-being as one is committed to one's own well-being) is the fulfillment of the law, for love requires more than the law ever did.
The law only forbid immoral behavior. . .love of neighbor requires positive action.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Actually, that is a command, not a prophecy.

And NT apostolic teaching completes that command regarding its NT requirements in Ro 13:8-10:

"The commandments. . .and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' . . Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Love of God and love of neighbor as oneself (committed to their well-being as one is committed to one's own well-being) is the fulfillment of the law, for love requires more than the law ever did.
The law only forbid immoral behavior. . .love of neighbor requires positive action.

Love to God is keeping the commandments 1 John 5:3. It is summarized by love, and the positive action is when we keep His commandments because we love God and want to do what He asks. I'm not sure which way you are promoting this, but many think all we need to do is love and are free to break God's commandments, which is not according to the teachings of God's Word.

showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

 

[Clare73]

Love to God is keeping the commandments 1 John 5:3. It is summarized by love, and the positive action is when we keep His commandments because we love God and want to do what He asks. I'm not sure which way you are promoting this, but many think all we need to do is love and are free to break God's commandments, which is not according to the teachings of God's Word.

showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

The four gospels are not the full NT revelation, for there was much Jesus could not reveal before his atoning death.

In the light of full NT revelation, all the commandments are fulfilled by simply loving our neighbor as ourself and loving God more than ourself; i.e., submitting to all the New Covenant commands found throughout the NT writings.

Why do you resist this new revelation of the New Covenant (Ro 13:8-10),
where the law of God is written on our hearts, not in a written code (Heb 8:10)
and where the law written on our hearts requires every so much more than simply doing no harm to our neighbor?

Why do you resist the NT revelation of the obsoleteness of the Old Covenant (Heb 8:13)?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The four gospels are not the full NT revelation, for there was much Jesus could not reveal before his atoning death.

In the light of full NT revelation, all the commandments are fulfilled by simply loving our neighbor as ourself and loving God more than ourself; i.e., submitting to all the New Covenant commands found throughout the NT writings.

Why do you resist this new revelation of the New Covenant (Ro 13:8-10),
where the law of God is written on our hearts, not in a written code (Heb 8:10)
and where the law written on our hearts requires every so much more than simply doing no harm to our neighbor?

Why do you resist the NT revelation of the obsoleteness of the Old Covenant (Heb 8:13)?

So what you seem to be saying is that love does not summarize the commandments is deletes them.

This is not a teaching of the NT scriptures.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

God does not delete His laws in the New Covenant, He writes them in the hearts and minds of His New Covenant people. Hebrews 8:10 so I am not resisting the New Covenant, but embracing what God wrote for us to keep through faith and love.

 

[Clare73]

The four gospels are not the full NT revelation, for there was much Jesus could not reveal before his atoning death.
In the light of full NT revelation, all the commandments are fulfilled by simply loving our neighbor as ourself and loving God more than ourself; i.e., submitting to all the New Covenant commands found throughout the NT writings.

So what you seem to be saying is that love does not summarize the commandments is deletes them.

However, I am saying what the NT states in Ro 13:8-10.
Why do you challenge NT revelation?

Nor did you answer my questions.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

However, I am saying what the NT states in Ro 13:8-10.
Why do you challenge NT revelation?

Nor did you answer my questions.

You seem to be misapplying what Paul is teaching. Summary does not meaning we no longer need to keep. Paul is not contradicting himself, God or Jesus when he says what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19. Love to God is not worshipping other gods or breaking any of His commandments, it really is just common sense.

I’m not challenging NT revelation, I disagree with the way you are applying it , obeying God is an important theme throughout all of scripture. All of God’s Word is found in both Old Testament and New Testament.

God’s commandments certainly did not end in the New Testament. Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14 James 2:10-12, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 15:3-9 to name just a very few scriptures that clearly indicates otherwise.

 

[Clare73]

You seem to be misapplying what Paul is teaching. Summary does not meaning we no longer need to keep. Paul is not contradicting himself, God or Jesus when he says what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19. Love to God is not worshipping other gods or breaking any of His commandments, it really is just common sense.

I’m not challenging NT revelation, I am challenge the way you are applying it ,

Ro 13:9 applies itself.

obeying God is an important theme throughout all of scripture. All of God’s Word is found in both Old Testament and New Testament.

God’s commandments certainly did not end in the New Testament. Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14

Revelation is the NT.

I don't know what could be more clear than the summation given in Ro 13:9.

The issue here is not lack of understanding of Ro 13:9, the issue here is lack of belief of Ro 13:9. . .and that is above my pay grade.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Revelation is the NT.

Agree, and as presented it certainly does not say we are free to break God’s commandments as long as we love each other. Love is keeping the commandments of God 1 John 5:3 which is why the commandments are summarized by love. Love is the motivating factor for obedience to God and faith to do what He commands of us is because it is for our own good.

Here are the patients of the saints, here are those who keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus. Revelation 14:12

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14

I don't know what could be more clear than the summation given in Ro 13:9.

Summary does not mean deletion as Paul reminds us in 1 Cor 7:19 and Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:19-30 John 15:10, John 14:15

The issue here is not lack of understanding of Ro 13:9, the issue here is lack of belief of Ro 13:9. . .and that is above my pay grade.

Who said anything about not believing Paul, unless your are referring to someone else. I just don’t believe Paul contradicts himself or Jesus and Romans 13:9 works in harmony with 1 Cor 7:19 and the other scriptures posted not against.