Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24

SabbathBlessings

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What I hear you saying is Jesus' statement in John 14:15 "IF you LOVE Me - Keep My Commandments" - the born again in-Christ experience comes first and it creates that perfect Love for Jesus that then leads to acts of obeying His Word.
The experience is what causes you to want to keep the commandments through faith and love, which is I believe what I said- do you not agree with this:
We must follow God's Word and be obedient to God to receive His rest, not to be saved but because we have a changed heart though being born again though faith and love which goes hand in hand with obedience to God.

Hebrews 4:6 makes it clear we do not enter His rest through disobedience.

God calls on everyone, gives everyone faith and love. God writes His laws in everyone's hearts and minds, but we have to cooperate with God. If we change our mind which is rebellion against God, we are in disobedience to Him and will not enter His rest.

Are you saying something different?
 
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Bob S

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What I hear you saying is Jesus' statement in John 14:15 "IF you LOVE Me - Keep My Commandments" - the born again in-Christ experience comes first and it creates that perfect Love for Jesus that then leads to acts of obeying His Word.
1jn3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
 
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BobRyan

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For those entering into the SDA church, before they can be baptized one must have stopped smoking, drinking strong beverages, stopped eating pig meat, ....

SDAs do not believe in eating rats, cats, dogs or bats because of Lev 11 regarding what animals are "for food" according to the chapter. Why switch to that off-topic on a thread which is titled "keeping Sabbath until Christ returns in"??

Did you lose focus on our topic?
 
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Bob S

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Until you read His actual teaching in Matt 19 where He is specifically asked "WHICH ONES" and His answer is from that very unit of ten you are rejecting above.



I "pay attention to details". Are you not in favor of that??



And so it does but if one pays attention to the details in my post above - they don't see me saying anything against "the book of the Law".

what I said is that in Matt 19 Jesus is quoting from the TEN -- the very thing you claimed He was not doing.



You mean "do not take God's name in vain"?? Ex 20:7 -- true He did not mention that one. Do you suppose He was trying to delete it??

Or do you mean "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" -- true He did not mention that one. Do you suppose He was trying to delete it and all of the TEN That relate to it?

What exactly is your point??
Did you even bother to read post#356???
 
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BobRyan

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1jn3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands

1 John 5:3-4 "THIS IS the LOVE of GOD what we KEEP His Commandments"

Where "the FIRST commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit-of-ten is "Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2

Bible details that so obviously include all TEN of the Ten commandments that Bible scholars in all major denominations (on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate) affirm them.
 
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eleos1954

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If the law is the ten commandments and all the teachings of Jesus,

And if Jesus taught that we are to listen to the scribes and the Pharisees,

And if the scribes and the Pharisees limited the amount of travel on the Sabbath,

Then a limited amount of travel on the Sabbath is the law.

Do you believe you have found some other passages that say something different? Jesus said it was the scribes and the Pharisees that sat in the seat of Moses.

My point is that not everything that Jesus said applies to us today.

Great discussion, by the way!

The seat of Moses involved judgement ...

18“You shall appoint judges and officers in all your gates that YHWH your Elohim is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment." – Deut. 16:18

13The next day, Moses took his seat to hear the people’s disputes against each other. They waited before him from morning till evening. – Ex. 18:13

One of the issues Jesus had with the clergy of those days was their hypocrisy .... teaching and not doing themselves. Another issue He had was them adding their own rules and teaching them (commandments of men) and then also mis-teachings regarding His word ... ie teaching one could keep the commandments themselves (by their own works) and not relying on the power of God.

The purpose of the earthly sanctuary system

The result of sin is death (Romans 6:23), but God intended to teach that the sinner’s death sentence could be pardoned, and the death penalty could revert back upon the sin’s instigator.

The purpose of the sanctuary was to teach that salvation centered in Christ’s sacrifice as well as by His ministration in the heavenly sanctuary. Confession of sin (transgression of the law) and faith (that God would sanctify them) were required in this sole provision by God.

Leviticus 20:7-8 New Living Translation (NLT)

So set yourselves apart to be holy, for I am the LORD your God. Keep all my decrees by putting them into practice, for I am the LORD who makes you holy (they lost sight of this) ... in essence they thought they could sanctify themselves without God.


The sanctuary lessons taught God’s perfect and complete plan for man’s salvation. The symbolism of the sacrifice was fulfilled when Jesus lived the perfect life of sacrifice and service, and then was slain as the unblemished “lamb of God.” The importance of these lessons was daily reenacted in the earthly sanctuary. These services became a reality when these types were continued by Jesus Himself in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest (Hebrews chapters 8 and 9).

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Matthew 15:7-9
You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

My point is that not everything that Jesus said applies to us today.

I disagree ...

Read Matthew 5, 6 and 7. That’s Jesus’ sermon on the mountain. The teachings of Jesus are relevant today for the simple reason that human nature had not changed. Times have changed but the nature we were born with has not. There is as much need for the Gospel of Truth today as ever.

Galatians 5:19–21 - (NIV) “The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like”. Sound familiar?

Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Numbers 23:19

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Psalm 119:89
Forever, O Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.

Psalm 33:11
The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the plans of his heart to all generations.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.

God don't change ... He is truth .... all truth.

“The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to Me.” — John 18:37
 
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Leaf473

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The seat of Moses involved judgement ...



13The next day, Moses took his seat to hear the people’s disputes against each other. They waited before him from morning till evening. – Ex. 18:13

One of the issues Jesus had with the clergy of those days was their hypocrisy .... teaching and not doing themselves. Another issue He had was them adding their own rules and teaching them (commandments of men) and then also mis-teachings regarding His word ... ie teaching one could keep the commandments themselves (by their own works) and not relying on the power of God.

The purpose of the earthly sanctuary system

The result of sin is death (Romans 6:23), but God intended to teach that the sinner’s death sentence could be pardoned, and the death penalty could revert back upon the sin’s instigator.

The purpose of the sanctuary was to teach that salvation centered in Christ’s sacrifice as well as by His ministration in the heavenly sanctuary. Confession of sin (transgression of the law) and faith (that God would sanctify them) were required in this sole provision by God.

Leviticus 20:7-8 New Living Translation (NLT)

So set yourselves apart to be holy, for I am the LORD your God. Keep all my decrees by putting them into practice, for I am the LORD who makes you holy (they lost sight of this) ... in essence they thought they could sanctify themselves without God.


The sanctuary lessons taught God’s perfect and complete plan for man’s salvation. The symbolism of the sacrifice was fulfilled when Jesus lived the perfect life of sacrifice and service, and then was slain as the unblemished “lamb of God.” The importance of these lessons was daily reenacted in the earthly sanctuary. These services became a reality when these types were continued by Jesus Himself in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest (Hebrews chapters 8 and 9).

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Matthew 15:7-9
You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”



I disagree ...

Read Matthew 5, 6 and 7. That’s Jesus’ sermon on the mountain. The teachings of Jesus are relevant today for the simple reason that human nature had not changed. Times have changed but the nature we were born with has not. There is as much need for the Gospel of Truth today as ever.

Galatians 5:19–21 - (NIV) “The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like”. Sound familiar?

Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Numbers 23:19

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Psalm 119:89
Forever, O Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.

Psalm 33:11
The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the plans of his heart to all generations.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.

God don't change ... He is truth .... all truth.

“The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to Me.” — John 18:37
I thought you had said that the law was the ten commandments plus everything Jesus taught.

One of the things that Jesus taught was to listen to the scribes and Pharisees. Maybe you really don't think we should listen, or they should have listened, to the scribes and Pharisees. That's fine. I don't, either.

I had asked earlier about Jesus teaching the cleansed man to offer an animal sacrifice. I believe you said it's the principles that Jesus taught that we follow.

So maybe that's what you're saying here, too. If so, then Cool! We're on the same page.
 
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eleos1954

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I thought you had said that the law was the ten commandments plus everything Jesus taught.

One of the things that Jesus taught was to listen to the scribes and Pharisees. Maybe you really don't think we should listen, or they should have listened, to the scribes and Pharisees. That's fine. I don't, either.

I had asked earlier about Jesus teaching the cleansed man to offer an animal sacrifice. I believe you said it's the principles that Jesus taught that we follow.

So maybe that's what you're saying here, too. If so, then Cool! We're on the same page.

Yes ... everything Jesus taught is based on the 10 ... that is not to be taken that every single verse depicts or stands alone in that regard ... His teachings are based on the same principles as the 10 and the 10 are based on love .... love towards God and love towards mankind .... 1-4 (love towards God) 5-10 (love towards mankind).

Jesus teaching the cleansed man to offer an animal sacrifice

What scripture are you referring to here?
 
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Leaf473

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Yes ... everything Jesus taught is based on the 10 ... that is not to be taken that every single verse depicts or stands alone in that regard ... His teachings are based on the same principles as the 10 and the 10 are based on love .... love towards God and love towards mankind .... 1-4 (love towards God) 5-10 (love towards mankind).



What scripture are you referring to here?
Well, sounds like we follow the principles of the ten commandments and the principles of Jesus's teaching. Again, I can agree with that.

The part about the cleansed man was here
Okay... How do you see this relating to the 10?

Matthew 8
Jesus said to him, “See that you tell nobody; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Yes ... everything Jesus taught is based on the 10 ... that is not to be taken that every single verse depicts or stands alone in that regard ... His teachings are based on the same principles as the 10 and the 10 are based on love .... love towards God and love towards mankind .... 1-4 (love towards God) 5-10 (love towards mankind).



What scripture are you referring to here?
I agree.

If we keep just the first commandment, which is much deeper than just these words, we would be obeying everything God asks of us.

Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
 
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eleos1954

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Well, sounds like we follow the principles of the ten commandments and the principles of Jesus's teaching. Again, I can agree with that.

The part about the cleansed man was here

And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. (He believed Jesus to be the Messiah ... having the power and worshipped Him)

Christ in healing the leprous with the touch of his hand, shows that he abhors no sinners that come unto him, be they ever so unclean. Gods unconditional Love.

The lepor recognize that he was a sinner (transgression of the law) and put His trust completely in Jesus/God .... he was made both physically and spiritually made clean by Jesus

He was to go to the priest as a testament to them of Jesus being the Messiah ... making the offering after he had already been cleansed ... thereby 3 things being shown to the clergy ... 1 the lepor recognized himself as a sinner 2 .... Jesus was the Messiah submitted to Him (worship) .... 2 the lepor was healed by the power of Jesus and not because of offering something beforehand.

Leviticus 20:8

King James Bible
And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify (make holy) you.

The Ten Commandments, are a set of biblical principles relating to ethics and worship. The moral law (the 10) ... our relationship with God ... and our relationship with one another. Kept out of the love of God working in our hearts.

part of this event was teaching the jewish clergy of the day God/Jesus is the one who cleanses us ... not the law. The law is lawful when Jesus places it in the heart and HE is the one that helps us to overcome sin (transgression of the law).

Trusting in the Law for salvation (as they were doing), instead of believing in Christ, is like trusting in an idol to save you. It is an act of idolatry
Second Commandment
 
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Leaf473

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And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. (He believed Jesus to be the Messiah ... having the power and worshipped Him)

Christ in healing the leprous with the touch of his hand, shows that he abhors no sinners that come unto him, be they ever so unclean. Gods unconditional Love.

The lepor recognize that he was a sinner (transgression of the law) and put His trust completely in Jesus/God .... he was made both physically and spiritually made clean by Jesus

He was to go to the priest as a testament to them of Jesus being the Messiah ... making the offering after he had already been cleansed ... thereby 3 things being shown to the clergy ... 1 the lepor recognized himself as a sinner 2 .... Jesus was the Messiah submitted to Him (worship) .... 2 the lepor was healed by the power of Jesus and not because of offering something beforehand.

Leviticus 20:8

King James Bible
And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify (make holy) you.

The Ten Commandments, are a set of biblical principles relating to ethics and worship. The moral law (the 10) ... our relationship with God ... and our relationship with one another. Kept out of the love of God working in our hearts.

part of this event was teaching the jewish clergy of the day God/Jesus is the one who cleanses us ... not the law. The law is lawful when Jesus places it in the heart and HE is the one that helps us to overcome sin (transgression of the law).

Trusting in the Law for salvation (as they were doing), instead of believing in Christ, is like trusting in an idol to save you. It is an act of idolatry
Second Commandment
Yes, I agree. All those principles are in Jesus' teaching to the leper.
 
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Bob S

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Yes ... everything Jesus taught is based on the 10 ... that is not to be taken that every single verse depicts or stands alone in that regard ... His teachings are based on the same principles as the 10 and the 10 are based on love .... love towards God and love towards mankind .... 1-4 (love towards God) 5-10 (love towards mankind).
The ten commandments did not teach love. There is not one word in all ten that indicates that Israelites were to love. They were all are about duty. We all should love to do His will. The ten four commandments were just the tip of the iceberg as to how Israelites were to treat their fellow man.
 
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eleos1954

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The ten commandments did not teach love. There is not one word in all ten that indicates that Israelites were to love. They were all are about duty. We all should love to do His will. The ten four commandments were just the tip of the iceberg as to how Israelites were to treat their fellow man.

Christ dieing on the cross was the biggest display of Love ever shown to mankind. It wasn't His "duty" .... it was out of Love He laid His life down.

Romans 5

6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The wages of sin (transgression of the Law) is death.

For God so Loved, He gave His son.

We all should love to do His will.

Yes ... and what is His will? Not to sin (transgress the Law)

If you love me keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.
 
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Lulav

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The ten commandments did not teach love. There is not one word in all ten that indicates that Israelites were to love. They were all are about duty. We all should love to do His will. The ten four commandments were just the tip of the iceberg as to how Israelites were to treat their fellow man.

Deut 6:4“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Matt 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
237521_1c3bda55fd544cabc8d3f6592e654a54.JPG
 
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Bob S

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Deut 6:4“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Matt 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
237521_1c3bda55fd544cabc8d3f6592e654a54.JPG
I didn't say how the Israelites were to treat the ten commandments, My statement still stands, not one word in all ten telling Israelites to love. Everyone of them could have been kept out of duty. God didn't require Israelites to do them out of love. The closest commandment to love was to honor their parents.
 
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HIM

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I didn't say how the Israelites were to treat the ten commandments, My statement still stands, not one word in all ten telling Israelites to love. Everyone of them could have been kept out of duty. God didn't require Israelites to do them out of love. The closest commandment to love was to honor their parents.
Exod 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
 
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Lulav

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I just started reading the posts and your question kinda intrigued me.
Makes you stop and think, right? :)
To me it is more of a statement rather than a question and I have to take exception to your stating that God made something special for US and then went on and identified what that something special is supposed to be.
It was just a thought but also a question for anyone that chooses to engage.
I don't know why you are taking exception, it wasn't directed at you personally.:)

I cannot find anywhere in scripture that God made Sabbath special for US.
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man(kind), and not man(kind) for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

He made it as part of the package He contracted with Israel at Mt Sinai.
Part of the package? you mean the Covenant? Which is actually a Marriage Covenant. It was broken but then renewed by Jesus when he came. That was the New Covenant, same thing, operated in a different way. There is so much language about this from Jesus that it's really hard to miss. He talks about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, The bridesmaids, the grooms man, the house being built. This is all for Israel and anyone who has covenanted to join her.

I know Sabbath observers like to think God has made it for all, BUT that is nowhere found in all of scripture.
See scripture quoted above.

History is proof that no other nation on Earth has ever been called to observe days by God.
Correct, only those who are called by his name. He only has one family, one bride, He is not a polygamist.

What gift really wonderful, God sent His Son to this fallen World to save US, every living soul on this Earth can accept Jesus as their Savior and rest assured they have eternal life. Jn3:16 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Jn5: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Jn15: 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.


The abiding of the Holy Spirit is Jesus gift to all. The ability to LOVE is a special gift to all mankind.
Yes, but Jesus plainly states that to remain in his love you must keep the commandments.
 
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