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How nice. Declare the proof of the required same state past or you are talkin foolishness. Wait..you already admitted that science doesn't know? Guess where that leaves you case?
Nope, it is not consistent with the experience and records and observations of man, and the spiritual. It also rests 100% on a premise that is totally unproven. Never in history has there been a more baseless and ridiculous fable.
I am not looking foir a theory valid "under" parsimony. I sought one that is valid with or without basing it on what strikes little man and his little world as the most sensible thing, based only on his limits!
Oh dear first the website you quote claims Paul wrote Hebrews now you claim Jesus wrote it? Or have you completely given up trying to justify your claim that not believing your interpretation is not believing Jesus?
I take it from your change in tack you cannot defend your argument "Where do they teach that Jews need to rest a million years each week on Sabbath?" and that you do recognise there are passages with deep metaphorical meaning.
Hadnt God already created light? But your real problem is the half baked mix of metaphor and literal you think proves the passage cant be interpreted figuratively. It is the same mistake you made with your "Where do they teach that Jews need to rest a million years each week on Sabbath?"
A very odd comment coming from someone who made up the universe splitting apart in the time of Peleg.
Yet you cannot support any of those clams when challenged. The supposed life spans of the patriarchs are contradicted by Moses in Psalm 90, unsurprisingly, you ignore the problem and simply repeat this claim. Even if the life spans changed there isnt the slightest hint it had anything to do with Peleg or your split. Can you show this wasnt a direct act of God? When you pick and choose your interpretations simply to fit your split, why not chose the interpretation that say mans live span began to change when God proclaimed his days will be 120 years, it is not the best interpretation form the context, but that never stops you. What should we think the change in life spans is the effect of a split never ever mentioned in scripture? The bible say nothing of the speed of light being faster or changing when the universe split apart at the time of Peleg. You claim about life processes is so vague as to be meaningless. You are at you most inconsistent when you make you claims about spirits, picking and choosing wild interpretations and ignoring what Jesus himself tells us. So yes there is a real need for you to make things up for your Split. You have made it all up.
You think there was a literal sheep writing our names in a book before the world was created? Like I said in the law the Isrealites acted out these metaphors, but they were metaphors to start with, shadows of the reality to come in Christ, not commemorations of literal events in the creation.
Did Abels lamb have a book with him? If not his sheep was as much a shadow of the Lamb of God as any Passover lambs.
Bread of angels is a dubious translation, the word isnt translated angel anywhere else, it means strong. However I do agree God fed the Israelites manna. Paul allegorized Hagar and Sarah who they were real people. You can have historical events interpreted metaphorically but there are also plenty of figurative passages in the bible whose only meaning is the metaphorically they were never meant literally. There never will be a seven headed leopard lion bear beast. There never were talking trees (Judges 9), God didnt literally carry the Israelites out of Egypt on eagles wings (Exodus 19:4), or lead them out with a literal mighty hand and an outstretched arm as it says in the commandments (Deut 5:15).
It is a pretty good example of a passage pointing to the messiah that whose meaning is metaphorical. In fact if it was literal Jesus failed as Messiah because he didnt step on the snake that slithered out of Eden. But in fact Jesus fulfilled the prophecy when he defeated Satan on the cross, but that means the snake in the story wasnt an literal snake, as we are told in Revelation he is Satan.
You dont think there is anything special that the Redeemer bruising the snakes head really means that Jesus disarmed the rulers and the authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in the cross (Col 2:15). Or that the gospel and our eternal relationship with God is foreshadowed by the Sabbath? Isnt it special that the deeper meaning of the passover lamb was Jesus Christ death on the Cross for our salvation? This is incidentally an origins theology forum so the way the NT teaches us to interpret the OT metaphorically is pretty relevant.
And the talking tree we read of in Judges were the result of the split too. Animals lost the ability to speak after the split, but plants gained it. Why? Why not, anything can happen in your split. There is no reference to talking plants talking before Peleg, only afterwards, so this is another change for you. Of course science claims plants dont speak but they cant prove it, plants just keep quiet when we are around. With your split you can claim anything you like, why not shove Eden into the middle of Israel? Your split is only limited by your imagination.
No, I can't recall claiming Jesus wrote Hebrews. I tend to agree Paul wrote it. Why?
Why would perfect need to get better?
No. It should be obvious that a day is not millions of years, and that Jews do not rest millions of years each week. Try to be interesting.
That should be easy, not sure what your point is.
No. Your idea again does not work. There really were days, and there really were sacrifices of lambs, however, so at least my point works. Not only that, it is not a point that is playing hide and seek. It's right here in your face.
Are you suggesting that with light, plants live millions of years with no sun?
If you are going to pretend your Hebrew's quote is an answer to my point that Jesus never mentioned the flood was global, I can only assume you think Jesus wrote Hebrews. Either that or you are trying to pass it off as an answer.
Another non answer.
Try to defend the point you make instead of dancing from one silly claim to another. If your split or your literalism had any basis you should be able to defend these claims instead of having to abandon them as soon as you bring them up. Nor would you keep bringing up bogus claims you could not support when you brought them up the first time.
And Jesus was not a sheep. Doesn't mean Lamb of God is not a metaphor for Jesus or that days cannot be used in a metaphor
Ah rephrase the old argument instead of addressing how utter silly it was the last time you brought it up. It is completely true of course, the Jews did not rest for million of years each week, of course that does nothing to contradict the metaphorical meaning of the Sabbath we read of in both Colossians and Hebrews.
My point is, replying to you involves both reminding you your answer completely failed to deal with my previous reply, and answering the new points you bring up instead of giving a proper answer.
Hide and seeker heal thyself.
No, just pointing out your own argument doesn't hold water.
Not particularly interested in chasing arguments down weblinks. We have been discussing your split here long enough that if you had any scriptural evidence supporting it you could have brought it up long ago. Quote them here is there is anything worth looking at.
Isn't how it is supposed to work?
Actually God is clever enough to do both. Don't forget Gen 2:4 describe the whole of creaton taking place in a day. How long did the days mean when Ezekiel lay on his side prophesying over Israel and Judah? (Ezek 4)? How long do you think the day meant in the parable of the labourers in the vineyard (Matt 20)?
You can't keep 'adding to that' other bad arguments. No number of bad arguments add up to a single good argument and you don't have any of those. The 120 years takes from you argument instead of adding to it, because at least there is an old interpretation that says this was God's decree about man's age. A better interpretation than the continents splitting apart in Peleg's time. Both the flood and the decline in age are the general context, whereas the context and language of the Peleg divide is the nations and languages dividing up the land. There is no suggestion of the continents splitting other than the interpretation of Peleg. Of course there is no suggestion anywhere that the earth (or land) was divided means the physical and the spiritual in the entire universe split apart. So the 120 year warning as a decree about people's lifespans is a much stronger interpretation and explanation for the ages than your split. Even without it there is no reason to think the decline in age isn't a direct act of God, or if you are a creationist, the result of the flood which at least is mentioned in scripture rather than the result of your split which isn't. Of course I go with Moses who in the same Psalm where he showed us about God's understanding of time also showed us he didn't take the long life spans literally either Psalm 90:10. Notice as well how I can give you a scriptural basis for this interpretation when you haven't shown us the slightest hint in scripture of your physical-spiritual split in the time of Peleg.
No proof for a required same state past was offered. If you think it was, you as pathetically mistaken. In fact, you admitted science does not know.
That depends on what discussion you mean. If you mean the discussion where you admit science does not know the state of the past, we do not need bible! If you mean discussing things besides that train wreck, why, of course the most important book in the world is relevant. Assyrian was discussing things within the context of the bible, and therefore, of course the bible is relevant to that discussion.
Meaningless! Unless you have reason to indicate the universe was the same, we do not. You have merely restricted all interpretation of evidences to the same state premise. You admit science does not know. Therefore all claims of the future and past, beyond where knowledge lies, is predicated on a fable. A foundation for which there can be no knowledge, and where nothing applies, such as parsimony. Parsimony is not a concept well adapted to fables.
Nonsense, NO, you may not assume sqauat, ever, without proof, or solid support, none of which you have the slightest speck of. Don't give us that old tired, 'in the future' business. In the future, man's temporary state wisdom will be no more.
No need to critique anything if it stays where it applies. If it ventures out into infinity and beyond, it had better have more than a present state toy box.
So? That has squat to do with creation, or this temporary state. Of course inmates of this state pen will like comforts. So? What you think inmates should fall at the guards feet when they get a cigarette, or a movie, and praise them for knowing the state of the future universe, or creation??? Bizarre. Keep it where it belongs.
So callled science has to do with the old age fables, not nitty gritty real present state functional knowledge. In no way will I allow anyone to hide under the skirt of actual knowledge where it applies, as a cover for preaching nonsense fables countering God's word.
Sure it does.
There is no indiect or direct or any other kind of observation of a present state in the far past universe. There is no experiments on any far past universe state, in any way. And there is nothing to brag about is some parsimonious approach that is nothing but ignoring all but what is under you nose! Rather than a same state being observed, it is assumed, and then, after that assumption, artificially imposed on all we see. What we observe, appears to be present state. How else would man's universe, the stars made for us after the earth was created, be expected to look? Now, if you could go back 5000 years and look, why, you would have real observations! You can't. All you do is look at this present state, and imagine backwards from there, as if it always was like that.
It is not I arguing a same state in the past, that would be you..carry your own burden.
I mention both ends of the limits of temporal state science. The future is something so called science prophesies about all the time! Sheer pagan nonsense.
The one who makes the claim as science bears the responsibilty of proof. I see they can't support it, and, in addition, that temporal state science cannot deal in the bible state past.
Look at the question again, that wasn't it. Nothing wrong with being thankful, there is something wrong with bowing to idols, and giving the praise for creation to man.
There is no indiect or direct or any other kind of observation of a present state in the far past universe. There is no experiments on any far past universe state, in any way. And there is nothing to brag about is some parsimonious approach that is nothing but ignoring all but what is under you nose! Rather than a same state being observed, it is assumed, and then, after that assumption, artificially imposed on all we see. What we observe, appears to be present state. How else would man's universe, the stars made for us after the earth was created, be expected to look? Now, if you could go back 5000 years and look, why, you would have real observations! You can't. All you do is look at this present state, and imagine backwards from there, as if it always was like that.
Not a sane God. A sane God agrees with what is already said.
No. The days of creation week cannot be ignored because of some misuse of how the word also can be used. It is becoming clear you have no respect for what is actually being said.
