• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured "j"esus culture and hillsong apostates

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Romans 8, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member

    +1,004
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Well said!

    Actually, your post reminded me of a guy called Jason Chin. I attended a charismatic church in my area a few months back and after my first visit there, we met for lunch at a restaurant.

    The church members were at the tail end of Chin's "Love Says Go" course and one of the members attempted to heal my tennis elbow right there in the restaurant. Wow. When I discovered who Jason Chin was (a Bethel church clone), I moved on.

    Many fake healers make their money through "teaching" people how to fake heal. There's another guy in Europe called the Last Reformation doing similar things. He will literally bring people into his "church" and have them "healing" people by the end of the day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  2. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

    +1,239
    Christian
    Married
    "a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle." Is what the op is claiming? And hook people? How in the world did you get that? All this speculation and gossip. You said "hillsong apostates". Do you know what that word means?

    This is gossip.. seeking out the GOOD they did are we? Not one is here.. to answer back to defend.. gossip...know them take to them? So..how in the world are you sins.. your errors in GODS WORD better?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. His student

    His student Active Member

    487
    +241
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    What does that have to do with what I said about not many charismatics knowing anything much about Johnson or many Hillsong listeners knowing about the things you accuse them of?

    Perhaps you could find a way to make everyone who listens to Hillsong's music read your posts on the Christian Forums.

    Then - and only then - would I retract what is obviously true.

    What's with the attitude?:scratch:
    No I did not - nor have I said that I did. Please show me where I told you that.

    They did seem to be very nice people. But I wouldn't know enough to say for sure.

    I was learning a few things from you that I hadn't known. I thought we were having a civil conversation. Then you go and get snarky.

    You may have your thread back now without me since you don't want to talk like a Christian brother should talk to another.

    I'm very disappointed.
     
  4. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member

    +1,004
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Well, the reason why I created this thread was to discuss and hear others' experience with these bands and to propose the potential problems with introducing both these bands, and Bethel doctrines into the local church. All through the thread people are asking how does watered down gospel music infect the church. My answer to that is hillsong is a hook for the youth, and Bethel church is the boat. So, although you might not think that hillsong listeners don't know about bethel church, you can bet if there was a bethel church in their neightborhood, they would attend.

    Not such a bad idea, but then I'd have to quit my job and reply to the thread full time ;)

    I apologize. I suppose it reads snarky, not what I was intending. I hope that you can see where I'm going with this thread. If you love jesus culture and hillsong, listen in your car, but I don't think it belongs in the church because of how they are associated with Bethel church. Does that make sense?
     
  5. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +3,217
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    notice how when there's a thread against reformed offenses, there is an immediate response in writing by someone affiliated that almost feels like a litigation. However, for the Charismanic realm, I'd imagine, they're praying for you ... totally casting spells on you. just saying.
     
  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +14,552
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    There's a valid question to be had about whether the source immediately discredits the product; so for example should we forbid hymns and sacred song on the basis of who produced it? It gets tricky, for example the English translation of Minuit, chretien, ("O Holy Night") was produced by a 19th century Unitarian minister. And I consider O Holy Night perhaps one of the most beloved Christmas carols and I doubt most of us would ever want to give it up.

    If the music itself is not objectionable, then perhaps the source isn't terribly consequential. But by the same token we should certainly be rigorous in our use of sacred song and hymnody. Which is a chief reason why I, and many others, usually don't regard modern "praise and worship" and CCM on the whole as particularly useful. It is often misunderstood that the issue many traditional Christians have is the musical form itself, that it's about "style" when "style" isn't the issue at all. It's not about being "old fashioned" or thinking modern music is inherently bad; it's about being diligent in understanding that the chief vehicle for theology that most Christians receive is in our music.

    There is an ancient axiom, Lex Orandi Lex Credendi, or "The law of prayer is the law of belief". Our prayer and song is the chief way we inform and shape our beliefs. No matter how eloquent and well crafted a sermon can be, it's not going to have the same staying power as the prayers and songs we share together. This means that there should be the utmost care to curate music that is theologically sound and is faithful in its confession of God's word and truth. This isn't about "hymns are good" and "praise choruses are bad", because there are bad hymns and there are good praise choruses.

    From a Lutheran perspective we avoid "experiential" language that attempts to comprehend the Divine apart from God's own giving of Himself and revealing of Himself. That is, God apart from Christ, God apart from His Word and Sacraments, God apart from these things He Himself has done and given. In other words Lutheranism eschews the idea of unmediated encounter with God, as though we can encounter God in ourselves, apart from God's own revelation and giving of Himself in and through Christ and where and how Christ Himself presents Himself to us. Instead we speak of the mediated encounter of God through Christ, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus". This is because we confess that an unmediated encounter with God is, as Scripture itself tells us, a terrifying thing, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God", "No one may see Me and live" etc. God, in the nakedness of His glory, is terrifying in the brilliance of His sublime majesty. But God clothed in the humility and suffering of Jesus Christ is how He chooses to meet us, "No one can come to the Father but by Me" "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"; thus to encounter God in Christ, to encounter God in faith and the cross, is to encounter God as God Himself makes Himself known to us. And so we meet God in Jesus, in His suffering, in His weakness, in His love, in His giving of Himself, in His death on the cross, that we might behold the God that Christ can show us, the One He calls "Abba", that is, "Father".

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  7. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +1,346
    Christian
    Private
    So... what are your sources again? YouTube videos? Their what we believe page happens to to say the opposite things you are saying
     
  8. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +1,346
    Christian
    Private
    Ok if their "what we believe" page is lying then what are your sources for these claims?
     
  9. HatGuy

    HatGuy Some guy in a hat

    510
    +349
    South Africa
    Christian
    Married
    Casting spells? What the heck is that about?
     
  10. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +3,217
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    When someone prays, but they don't trust God to do it, but force their will to make it happen, sometimes with the pretense of a scripture passage ... it's basically a spell since God is left out of the equation. God responds to trust and faith, not our wills.

    If I start to get this sense that someone is "praying about me" it's because this is what happened, they projected their thoughts to try and change me instead of trusting God to do His thing via sanctification on His timetable.
     
  11. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

    +4,127
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Go to Bethel’s Official YouTube channel. Do your research. Neither Bill Johnson or Todd White have been secretive about the “Jesus” they preach. Bethel is also a “health, wealth and prosperity church”. A few years ago their children’s minister, Seth Dahl, actually came right out and said he had a vision where Jesus asked him for forgiveness. That video was on Bethel’s YouTube channel, but often such videos get removed once enough people start speaking up about the blasphemous and heretical teachings.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  12. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

    +4,127
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Here’s the video I mentioned in my last post. As of now, Bethel still has it on their official YouTube channel.

     
  13. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +1,346
    Christian
    Private
    since this is your claim why don't you comb through youtube and present your findings?
     
  14. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

    +4,127
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    As this thread deals with Jesus Culture, one must realize that Jesus Culture IS Bethel. So, when anyone sings their songs at church, which “Jesus” are those songs written to and about?

    According to Bill Johnson, Jesus was not God while He was here on earth, but rather, He was just a man in “right relationship” with God.

    According to Bill Johnson, God is in charge but He’s not in control because He left us in control.

    According to Seth Dahl (children’s minister at Bethel) Jesus asked HIM for forgiveness.

    Bethel is also into many “new age” teachings as well as the “prosperity gospel.” Bill Johnson has said that he refuses to have a theology that allows for sickness. They teach that Jesus died on the cross to purchase physical healing in this life for everyone. Well, why isn’t everyone healed then? The Bible teaches no such thing. Rather, it tells us plainly that these earthly, perishable, corruptible bodies will either die or be instantly transformed at Jesus’ return.

    Beware of Bethel. And remember, if your church is singing their songs, Bethel’s “theology” is not only being promoted, but your church is paying them royalties as well. Something to think about.
     
  15. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +3,217
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    The views expressed in that video is very similar to what is taught in the new age about dualism.(which leads to a unity that has no resemblance to the trinity)

    But Jesus actually taught in Matthew 18
    15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
    16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
    17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
    18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
    19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
    20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    ... I'm not sure if that made sense.
     
  16. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

    +4,127
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Did you not bother to even watch the video I shared? See, this is the problem, I and many others do share information and it is simply scoffed at, excused and or rejected. People just don’t want to question these revered teachers and preachers who have been placed on a pedestal and elevated beyond Biblical reason.

    Your choice.
     
  17. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

    +4,127
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Could you explain a bit more about what you’re referring to with those verses in regard to the video? Thanks!
     
  18. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Mystery Worshipper Supporter

    +8,930
    United States
    Lutheran
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat
    Yes, I have heard of that. I am not really all that impressed. He finds people with sore legs and arthritis and "heals" them, which every skeptic knows isn't impressive as the placebo is a strong pain-killer. And his statements about institutional churches are very much overblown and overplayed. All I see is another restorationist stirring up controversy.

    I've seen real healings and they are never paraded about on cameras to promote a new religious movement. It's just simple prayer and trust in God's will, not magic or tricks.
     
  19. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

    +3,217
    Canada
    Christian Seeker
    Married
    He was teaching a variation on the "touch not thy anointed" teaching from earlier in the movement which manipulates people to forgive leaders for hurting you without confronting them. When you are hurt, that negative emotion becomes the sin, instead of what caused it. This results in there being no resolution. The point of the passage is that something opposite of what Jesus actually said was being taught.

    It's an issue since the speaker did say "Jesus said to me"
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  20. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

    +4,127
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Okay, those are very interesting points. What Seth Dahl said is indeed an issue. God (and Jesus is indeed God) asks no one for forgiveness, ever. He is the One Who forgives us, not the other way around. What audacity for him to claim he forgave God!

    And Seth Dahl is teaching children at Bethel.

    Still, people will find a way to excuse him and explain it away as no big deal.
     
Loading...