"j"esus culture and hillsong apostates

Romans 8

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That's not true.

I don't mean to be accusatory. But when I see people defending these bands, even when they're exposed for what they are, it concerns me. Because this is how these teachings enter the church. It starts with, "it's just music". But actually, if you read back in the thread, I mentioned that in one of the churches I attend they are now following Bill Johnson in one of the home groups.

Mathew 16:6 says "Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."

The Pharisees and Saducees are alive and well today. There are millions of Christian songs free to use in church, we don't need to sing jesus culture or hillsong. God Bless!
 
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DamianWarS

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This is the exact question that jesus culture and hillsong fans like to ask. What matters is that these bands were created to get their hooks into the youth, and influence them into a false church. Do you think that matters?



From false motives? So if the band is trying to entice the youth into Bethel church, that's ok because they mention Jesus? Do you realize the Jesus that they preach loves not just homosexuals, but also homosexuality? They teach that Jesus is a man and not God, that he needed to be reborn, that he was simply an example of how to live and not our redeemer. Are you rejoicing because of these teachings?

This is why is matters. Bethel church owns these bands and Bethel is teaching false doctrines in their churches. Not only are they teaching false doctrines, they are practicing kundalini activations which also is demonic.

So when I see this at my local churches, it concerns me. Because people without discernment are welcoming this because the music "sounds nice", they love "j"esus (with a small j) so what does it matter?
It's a quote from Paul so you will have to take it up from him. However, nothing seems to show that in their "what we believe" page. where are you getting your information from? Do you have sources?
 
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Silverback

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Until about a month ago, I wasn't aware of the existence of these bands. It appears they are seducing followers through their glamour rock music fused with watered down gospel lyrics. The hope is that their followers will inevitably join and learn the false doctrines of Bethel church.

I learned of the bands existence while researching the usual suspects (Bill Johnson, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Sin Roth, etc). This is where I learned about the operation of Bethel church, Hillsong, and jesus culture.

I tuned into my local Christian radio station recently and recognized some of the songs. Shocker! I did not know the church I was attending had been singing their songs in church.
The worship team is young, but do they really need to adopt these apostate bands into the church?

I would not have as much of a problem if it was only the music but someone at the church allowed an announcement recently, asking if people want to join a group on the works of Bill Johnson! I don't want to speak against the church or the pastor but I don't think this should be allowed. The church needs people with discernment to keep false teachings out of the church, and stand against apostates. I don't know if the church is out of touch or if they are trying to please everyone.

I guess I'm out of touch, I have heard of Hillsong, but who is Bill johnson, and what is the controversy about?

If someone could fill in the back story for me, I would appreciate it.

I know most of the televangelist you have mentioned, I went through a very dire time in 2015 with cancer, during that time I read some chapters of a book my Joice Meyers, and it helped me, I find her to be less "offensive" than the others mentioned.
 
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Romans 8

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It's a quote from Paul so you will have to take it up from him. However, nothing seems to show that in their "what we believe" page. where are you getting your information from? Do you have sources?

It's a quote taken out of context.

If we look at the history of the bands, we can see they were birthed from Bethel and continue to be run by Bethel. If you are not familiar with Bethel and Bill Johnson, you can very easily find his teaching on YouTube.

They are not going to explain all this in their "about" page. This is how these bands get overlooked. If you look at their root, and the Bethel church teachings, then you can see how their operation works.
 
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Romans 8

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I guess I'm out of touch, I have heard of Hillsong, but who is Bill johnson, and what is the controversy about?

If someone could fill in the back story for me, I would appreciate it.

I know most of the televangelist you have mentioned, I went through a very dire time in 2015 with cancer, during that time I read some chapters of a book my Joice Meyers, and it helped me, I find her to be less "offensive" than the others mentioned.

This is how they get you. They take sound doctrine and mix a little heresy, and next thing you are derailed. Most Christians already don't read their bible, preferring only to watch YouTube videos or read books about the bible. So they don't even notice when false doctrines are presented. I'm not saying this is your case, I'm just stating the fact.

This is what's going on at Bethel:

 
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amariselle

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It's a quote from Paul so you will have to take it up from him. However, nothing seems to show that in their "what we believe" page. where are you getting your information from? Do you have sources?

You cannot trust the "Statement of Faith" or the "What We Believe" pages for these organizations. Such statements always seem pretty much Biblical, their actual teachings on the other hand, are not. Bill Johnson, Todd White and others have indeed said, on multiple occasions that Jesus was not God on earth, but rather that He was just a man. Johnson and White use this heretical and blasphemous teaching to argue that because Jesus was just a man and had "laid aside His divinity", He therefore did all of His miracles as a man so we can do them too.

See, it doesn't just matter that "Jesus" is preached, it MUST be the right Jesus. Paul also warned of "another Jesus" and Jesus warned that MANY would come in HIS name. Too many professing Christians have forgotten the very numerous warnings of deception that are clearly given in Scripture. And let us not forget that Satan masquerades as an "angel of light" and his servants as servants of righteousness, not evil.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Until about a month ago, I wasn't aware of the existence of these bands. It appears they are seducing followers through their glamour rock music fused with watered down gospel lyrics. The hope is that their followers will inevitably join and learn the false doctrines of Bethel church.

I learned of the bands existence while researching the usual suspects (Bill Johnson, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Sin Roth, etc). This is where I learned about the operation of Bethel church, Hillsong, and jesus culture.

I tuned into my local Christian radio station recently and recognized some of the songs. Shocker! I did not know the church I was attending had been singing their songs in church.
The worship team is young, but do they really need to adopt these apostate bands into the church?

I would not have as much of a problem if it was only the music but someone at the church allowed an announcement recently, asking if people want to join a group on the works of Bill Johnson! I don't want to speak against the church or the pastor but I don't think this should be allowed. The church needs people with discernment to keep false teachings out of the church, and stand against apostates. I don't know if the church is out of touch or if they are trying to please everyone.

...so what's all of this about? I'm not familiar with Bill Johnson, but I am familiar with Christian Rock and/or other Christian Contemporary music. What or Who is being apostate in this realm?

Thanks! :cool:
 
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Romans 8

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...so what's all of this about? I'm not familiar with Bill Johnson, but I am familiar with Christian Rock and/or other Christian Contemporary music. What or Who is being apostate in this realm?

Thanks! :cool:

If you would kindly read through the thread, as much information has already been presented.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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If you would kindly read through the thread, as much information has already been presented.

I think I found what you're referring to ...

9 Things You Should Know About the Bethel Church Movement

Granted, they're a bit odd, but I'm not one to spend too much time striking down the 'wrong' ideas of other Christians. I'd rather spend more time trying to bring us all together and haggle over the finer points along the way. :rolleyes:
 
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Romans 8

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I think I found what you're referring to ...

9 Things You Should Know About the Bethel Church Movement

Granted, they're a bit odd, but I'm not one to spend too much time striking down the 'wrong' ideas of other Christians. I'd rather spend more time trying to bring us all together and haggle over the finer points along the way. :rolleyes:

Exactly, there are probably hundreds, even thousands of web pages exposing the Bethel church apostasy.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Exactly, there are probably hundreds, even thousands of web pages exposing the Bethel church apostasy.

Well, I'd have to did deeper into their exact beliefs before I cite them as being apostate. Besides, I'm more concerned with the growth of the Ex-Christians groups and the "Nones" than I am with Christians who go all Ultra-Charismatic. But, that's me... :rolleyes: I do understand your concern, though.
 
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His student

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For the record I hate labels. But, if I had to describe my overall Christian grouping in a nutshell, I'd call myself an evangelical Reformed charismatic.

I say that to emphasis that I am not really one to just swallow whatever a person or a certain group is pedaling without quite a bit of research, thought and prayer along the way. That includes people as diverse in their emphasis as Billy Graham, John Calvin, and Kenneth Copeland.

I agree that there is much to criticize in the WOF/T.V. evangelist etc. world. But I often see people of a non charismatic persuasion (perhaps I should say "anti-charismatic persuasion) who throw out the baby with the bathwater when criticizing the excesses in the WOF movement for instance.

Many of the principles (even of the "prosperity" kind) are absolutely biblical concepts. That includes the use of gifts, casting out demons, healing he sick and such.

The trick, I suppose you could say, is to take the good and leave the bad and to resist the tendency to just take an "anti" stance altogether.

That applies to the various modern music forms as well.

E.g. I like the old hymns and I also like many modern ways as well. I can enjoy the hymns and words of Charles Wesley and also enjoy the hard driving vibes of Bob Dylan's "Slow Train Coming" and nod along with him concerning the concepts captured by his words.

You may not have liked all that Niel Diamond has done over the years. But take a listen to "Pretty Amazing Grace" resisting the desire to pick apart everywhere you can and see what the so called "rock world" can provide as far as worshipful output.

I went to a church that used a lot of Hillsong's material and I got a lot of good worship time out of it.

Admittedly there was some fairly theologically shallow words in some of their stuff. But then that's true for much of pop culture.

I'm not about to spend a long time reexamining all of the things I have enjoyed from them over the years. Perhaps some of the new stuff is different than that I enjoyed praising the Lord to.

But I'm thinking offhand that some of this expressed outrage is much ado about nothing.
 
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Bruce Leiter

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Until about a month ago, I wasn't aware of the existence of these bands. It appears they are seducing followers through their glamour rock music fused with watered down gospel lyrics. The hope is that their followers will inevitably join and learn the false doctrines of Bethel church.

I learned of the bands existence while researching the usual suspects (Bill Johnson, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, Sin Roth, etc). This is where I learned about the operation of Bethel church, Hillsong, and jesus culture.

I tuned into my local Christian radio station recently and recognized some of the songs. Shocker! I did not know the church I was attending had been singing their songs in church.
The worship team is young, but do they really need to adopt these apostate bands into the church?

I would not have as much of a problem if it was only the music but someone at the church allowed an announcement recently, asking if people want to join a group on the works of Bill Johnson! I don't want to speak against the church or the pastor but I don't think this should be allowed. The church needs people with discernment to keep false teachings out of the church, and stand against apostates. I don't know if the church is out of touch or if they are trying to please everyone.
My only question is, "Are the words of the songs biblical? If so, why object? If not, why not turn them off or find another church?"
 
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Romans 8

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For the record I hate labels. But, if I had to describe my overall Christian grouping in a nutshell, I'd call myself an evangelical Reformed charismatic.

I would refer to myself similarly.

I say that to emphasis that I am not really one to just swallow whatever a certain group is pedaling without quite a bit of research, thought and prayer along the way.

Logical thinking will always have its place. Everyone should research. Not everyone will devote the time. Many Christians haven't any understanding of how the enemy operates, but can give you up to date details and their opinions on what's happening in the latest TV series.

I agree that there is much to criticize in the WOF/T.V. evangelist etc. world. But I often see people of a non charismatic persuasion (perhaps I should say "anti-charismatic persuasion) who throw out the baby with the bathwater when criticizing the excesses in the WOF movement for instance.

I agree, there is a balance. I believe in a full gospel church.

Many of the principles (even of the "prosperity" kind) are absolutely biblical concepts. That includes the use of gifts, casting out demons, healing he sick and such.

Yes, there is a prosperity Gospel so to speak which means that through faith God will provide what you need, not what you want. The gifts and deliverance along with all three baptisms is what I would describe as full gospel.

The trick, I suppose you could say, is to take the good and leave the bad and to resist the tendency to just take an "anti" stance altogether.

That applies to the various modern music forms as well.

I don't think we need to sing jesus Culture and hillsong in the church despite some songs being doctrinally sound for reasons I've already mentioned. There are just too many alternatives.

I went to a church that used a lot of Hillsong's material and I got a lot of good worship time out of it.Admittedly there was some fairly theologically shallow words in some of their stuff.

I am very confident that would have had as much or more good worship times from genuine Christian music too.

But I'm thinking offhand that some of this expressed outrage is much ado about nothing.

Interesting. Does your church host groups that teach Bill Johnson's work?
 
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His student

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Interesting. Does your church host groups that teach Bill Johnson's work?
No.

I doubt that many charismatics have even heard of Bill Johnson much less teach or practice his flavor of charismatic worship.

I doubt that one person out of ten who have received blessings from Hillsong music has even heard of the activities or beliefs you are accusing Hillsong of.

I do not now attend a charismatic "mega church" but I used to for many years. I know Brian Houston and his wife Bobbie who founded Hillsong. They have since parted ways amicably with Hillsong as such and gone in a different from that ministry.

Brian has been involved in what you might call the "faith" movement for many years - I believe since long before anyone coined the phrase Word of Faith.
 
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I think I found what you're referring to ...

9 Things You Should Know About the Bethel Church Movement

Granted, they're a bit odd, but I'm not one to spend too much time striking down the 'wrong' ideas of other Christians. I'd rather spend more time trying to bring us all together and haggle over the finer points along the way. :rolleyes:


That's like asking the sheep to be a little more loving to the wolves and invite them over for dinner on an empty stomach.

Well, I'd have to did deeper into their exact beliefs before I cite them as being apostate. Besides, I'm more concerned with the growth of the Ex-Christians groups and the "Nones" than I am with Christians who go all Ultra-Charismatic. But, that's me... :rolleyes: I do understand your concern, though.

"Ultra-charismatics" hurt alot of people through unsound doctrine. I saw a youtube channel once of a guy basically deconverting because his prayer didn't heal a guy with heart disease. Bad doctrine has a habit of doing that.
 
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