• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Featured "j"esus culture and hillsong apostates

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Romans 8, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I don't mean to be accusatory. But when I see people defending these bands, even when they're exposed for what they are, it concerns me. Because this is how these teachings enter the church. It starts with, "it's just music". But actually, if you read back in the thread, I mentioned that in one of the churches I attend they are now following Bill Johnson in one of the home groups.

    Mathew 16:6 says "Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."

    The Pharisees and Saducees are alive and well today. There are millions of Christian songs free to use in church, we don't need to sing jesus culture or hillsong. God Bless!
     
  2. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +1,805
    Christian
    Private
    It's a quote from Paul so you will have to take it up from him. However, nothing seems to show that in their "what we believe" page. where are you getting your information from? Do you have sources?
     
  3. Silverback

    Silverback Well-Known Member

    851
    +498
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    I guess I'm out of touch, I have heard of Hillsong, but who is Bill johnson, and what is the controversy about?

    If someone could fill in the back story for me, I would appreciate it.

    I know most of the televangelist you have mentioned, I went through a very dire time in 2015 with cancer, during that time I read some chapters of a book my Joice Meyers, and it helped me, I find her to be less "offensive" than the others mentioned.
     
  4. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    It's a quote taken out of context.

    If we look at the history of the bands, we can see they were birthed from Bethel and continue to be run by Bethel. If you are not familiar with Bethel and Bill Johnson, you can very easily find his teaching on YouTube.

    They are not going to explain all this in their "about" page. This is how these bands get overlooked. If you look at their root, and the Bethel church teachings, then you can see how their operation works.
     
  5. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    This is how they get you. They take sound doctrine and mix a little heresy, and next thing you are derailed. Most Christians already don't read their bible, preferring only to watch YouTube videos or read books about the bible. So they don't even notice when false doctrines are presented. I'm not saying this is your case, I'm just stating the fact.

    This is what's going on at Bethel:

     
  6. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

    +4,132
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    You cannot trust the "Statement of Faith" or the "What We Believe" pages for these organizations. Such statements always seem pretty much Biblical, their actual teachings on the other hand, are not. Bill Johnson, Todd White and others have indeed said, on multiple occasions that Jesus was not God on earth, but rather that He was just a man. Johnson and White use this heretical and blasphemous teaching to argue that because Jesus was just a man and had "laid aside His divinity", He therefore did all of His miracles as a man so we can do them too.

    See, it doesn't just matter that "Jesus" is preached, it MUST be the right Jesus. Paul also warned of "another Jesus" and Jesus warned that MANY would come in HIS name. Too many professing Christians have forgotten the very numerous warnings of deception that are clearly given in Scripture. And let us not forget that Satan masquerades as an "angel of light" and his servants as servants of righteousness, not evil.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  7. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Another perspective about the Risen Son! Supporter

    +5,353
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    ...so what's all of this about? I'm not familiar with Bill Johnson, but I am familiar with Christian Rock and/or other Christian Contemporary music. What or Who is being apostate in this realm?

    Thanks! :cool:
     
  8. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    If you would kindly read through the thread, as much information has already been presented.
     
  9. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Another perspective about the Risen Son! Supporter

    +5,353
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    I think I found what you're referring to ...

    9 Things You Should Know About the Bethel Church Movement

    Granted, they're a bit odd, but I'm not one to spend too much time striking down the 'wrong' ideas of other Christians. I'd rather spend more time trying to bring us all together and haggle over the finer points along the way. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Exactly, there are probably hundreds, even thousands of web pages exposing the Bethel church apostasy.
     
  11. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Another perspective about the Risen Son! Supporter

    +5,353
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Well, I'd have to did deeper into their exact beliefs before I cite them as being apostate. Besides, I'm more concerned with the growth of the Ex-Christians groups and the "Nones" than I am with Christians who go all Ultra-Charismatic. But, that's me... :rolleyes: I do understand your concern, though.
     
  12. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Another perspective about the Risen Son! Supporter

    +5,353
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  13. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

    +488
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    For the record I hate labels. But, if I had to describe my overall Christian grouping in a nutshell, I'd call myself an evangelical Reformed charismatic.

    I say that to emphasis that I am not really one to just swallow whatever a person or a certain group is pedaling without quite a bit of research, thought and prayer along the way. That includes people as diverse in their emphasis as Billy Graham, John Calvin, and Kenneth Copeland.

    I agree that there is much to criticize in the WOF/T.V. evangelist etc. world. But I often see people of a non charismatic persuasion (perhaps I should say "anti-charismatic persuasion) who throw out the baby with the bathwater when criticizing the excesses in the WOF movement for instance.

    Many of the principles (even of the "prosperity" kind) are absolutely biblical concepts. That includes the use of gifts, casting out demons, healing he sick and such.

    The trick, I suppose you could say, is to take the good and leave the bad and to resist the tendency to just take an "anti" stance altogether.

    That applies to the various modern music forms as well.

    E.g. I like the old hymns and I also like many modern ways as well. I can enjoy the hymns and words of Charles Wesley and also enjoy the hard driving vibes of Bob Dylan's "Slow Train Coming" and nod along with him concerning the concepts captured by his words.

    You may not have liked all that Niel Diamond has done over the years. But take a listen to "Pretty Amazing Grace" resisting the desire to pick apart everywhere you can and see what the so called "rock world" can provide as far as worshipful output.

    I went to a church that used a lot of Hillsong's material and I got a lot of good worship time out of it.

    Admittedly there was some fairly theologically shallow words in some of their stuff. But then that's true for much of pop culture.

    I'm not about to spend a long time reexamining all of the things I have enjoyed from them over the years. Perhaps some of the new stuff is different than that I enjoyed praising the Lord to.

    But I'm thinking offhand that some of this expressed outrage is much ado about nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  14. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter Member

    218
    +155
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    My only question is, "Are the words of the songs biblical? If so, why object? If not, why not turn them off or find another church?"
     
  15. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I would refer to myself similarly.

    Logical thinking will always have its place. Everyone should research. Not everyone will devote the time. Many Christians haven't any understanding of how the enemy operates, but can give you up to date details and their opinions on what's happening in the latest TV series.

    I agree, there is a balance. I believe in a full gospel church.

    Yes, there is a prosperity Gospel so to speak which means that through faith God will provide what you need, not what you want. The gifts and deliverance along with all three baptisms is what I would describe as full gospel.

    I don't think we need to sing jesus Culture and hillsong in the church despite some songs being doctrinally sound for reasons I've already mentioned. There are just too many alternatives.

    I am very confident that would have had as much or more good worship times from genuine Christian music too.

    Interesting. Does your church host groups that teach Bill Johnson's work?
     
  16. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I explain all this in the thread.
     
  17. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,931
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    What exactly is wrong with...

     
  18. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

    +488
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    No.

    I doubt that many charismatics have even heard of Bill Johnson much less teach or practice his flavor of charismatic worship.

    I doubt that one person out of ten who have received blessings from Hillsong music has even heard of the activities or beliefs you are accusing Hillsong of.

    I do not now attend a charismatic "mega church" but I used to for many years. I know Brian Houston and his wife Bobbie who founded Hillsong. They have since parted ways amicably with Hillsong as such and gone in a different from that ministry.

    Brian has been involved in what you might call the "faith" movement for many years - I believe since long before anyone coined the phrase Word of Faith.
     
  19. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,077
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  20. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +9,694
    United States
    Other Religion
    Legal Union (Other)
    US-Democrat

    That's like asking the sheep to be a little more loving to the wolves and invite them over for dinner on an empty stomach.

    "Ultra-charismatics" hurt alot of people through unsound doctrine. I saw a youtube channel once of a guy basically deconverting because his prayer didn't heal a guy with heart disease. Bad doctrine has a habit of doing that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
Loading...