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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Vanellus

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Once more, stop lying about what I say. If you can't quote me properly and have to lie then we are done and good riddance. I don't talk with people who lie about what I say.
That's an example of what is said in playground politics but let's compare it to what you actually wrote
"Aaaannnnd who hit who first?" cf "miss he hit me first boo hoo"
Spot the similarity - you were invoking playground politics with your ridiculous words
Read your history; I am not your teacher.
It is you who need to learn some history.. You often share videos etc on this thread, presumably hoping that people will look at them. But you are now apparently refusing to look at a website I have suggested to you.
 
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civilwarbuff

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That's an example of what is said playground politics but let's compare it to what you actually wrote
"Aaaannnnd who hit who first?" cf "miss he hit me first boo hoo"
Spot the similarity - you were invoking playground politics with your ridiculous words
You dare compare hamas' killings and maimings by rockets and mortars fired on Israel with 'playground politics'? You talk about 'ridiculous words' being spoken.....go take a good, long, hard look in the mirror to see who is really speaking 'ridiculous words'.
It is you who need to learn some history.. You often share videos etc on this thread, presumably hoping that people will look at them. But you are now apparently refusing to look at a website I have suggested to you.
If you don't know what Israel and 1948 have in common you REALLY need to read your history; I won't waste my time trying to educate someone who refuses to educate themselves.
 
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Vanellus

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You dare compare hamas' killings and maimings by rockets and mortars fired on Israel with 'playground politics'? You talk about 'ridiculous words' being spoken.....go take a good, long, hard look in the mirror to see who is really speaking 'ridiculous words'.
You are losing the argument and so are resorting to deliberate obtuseness. The comparison is with the principle you introduced of who hit first. So the cause of WW1 was the assassination in Sarajevo and nothing else was relevant - a history essay based on that idea would be deservedly marked down. So I'm comparing your idea of who hit first in the so called Gaza war (which is in fact the Gaza annihilation) with the kind of argument you get in the playground about who hit first.

It is much better to look at the totality of what has happened since 1948, and since 1948 Israel has killed far more Palestinians than vice versa. Israel is the oppressor and the Palestinians are the oppressed.

If you don't know what Israel and 1948 have in common you REALLY need to read your history; I won't waste my time trying to educate someone who refuses to educate themselves.
This is just meaningless drivel. You really need to read that webpage and website I suggested. It is you who refuse to look beyond the kind of videos such as the one that uses footage from before October 7 to boost its message about alleged rebellion against Hamas in Gaza. The basic point may be valid so why mar it with irrelevant footage?
 
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civilwarbuff

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You are losing the argument and so are resorting to deliberate obtuseness. The comparison is the principle you introduced of who hit first. So the cause of WW1 was the assassination in Sarajevo and nothing else was relevant - a history essay based on that idea would be deservedly marked down. So I'm comparing your idea of who hit first in the so called Gaza war (which is in fact the Gaza annihilation) with the kind of argument you get in the playground about who hit first.
You made that comparison not me. You want to play the blame game again, go look in a mirror as you speak.
It is much better to look at the totality of what has happened since 1948, and since 1948 Israel has killed far more Palestinians than vice versa. Israel is the oppressor and the Palestinians are the oppressed.
We killed more Japanese during WWII than they did Americans.....so by your (lack) of reasoning we were the aggressors. Remember who attacked who then also. You might want to quit digging that hole now.
This is just meaningless drivel.
And thank you for your meaningless paragraph (which I will continue to ignore)....
 
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Vanellus

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You made that comparison not me. You want to play the blame game again, go look in a mirror as you speak.
You were the first to introduce the idea of who hit who first. You need to read my posts more carefully.
We killed more Japanese during WWII than they did Americans.....so by your (lack) of reasoning we were the aggressors. Remember who attacked who then also.

Still relying on what was done in WWII to justify actions today! That was why the Geneva Conventions' rules of war were introduced - rules that both Israel and Hamas have broken, though Israel has broken them to a much greater degree. Remember it was you, not me, who brought in the pointless idea of who hit who first.
 
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Vanellus

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I love the rumble of bulldozers in the morning:
Horror Stories from East Jerusalem
This is the story of the demolition of Abu Diab’s home in Silwan, East Jerusalem. Mr Diab is a human rights activist and he may have been targeted to frighten others, already more fearful with the racist rhetoric from Israeli leaders since October 7th. There are 20,000 demolition orders and these never expire so uncertainty is ever present. What is more, Palestinians have to pay the cost of the demolition themselves. Israel’s supporters argue that this is what would happen in the UK but there is no comparison because in East Jerusalem, building permits are almost impossible for Palestinians to get, 28% of Palestinian homes are considered illegal by Israel and all endure the possibility of their homes being destroyed.

How do you explain to your two year old granddaughter why the police destroyed her home? (And to do it without stirring up hatred) And Abu Diab is not only worried for his family but for a future eruption in anger as this continues. “There will be a reaction,” he told Al Jazeera. “People can’t stand this for long.”
During the first nine months of 2023, Israel demolished a total of 97 Palestinian homes. But 87 homes have been bulldozed in East Jerusalem since Hamas’s deadly attack on Israeli communities and military outposts in southern Israel on October 7 last year, according to Ir Amim, a local non-profit which monitors home demolitions and advocates for Palestinian rights.

The acute uptick in demolitions suggests that Jerusalem’s municipality is exploiting the global attention on Gaza, where nearly 30,000 Palestinians have been killed, to try and uproot more Palestinians from East Jerusalem, activists and experts say.
 
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essentialsaltes

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How indiscriminate Israeli fire killed half a family in Gaza

The right side of Roba Abu Jibba’s face is almost completely gone – a deep, bloody wound is where her eye should be.

The 18-year-old, confused and in pain, lies on a gurney in Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza. She tries to explain how she got there. She had been sheltering with her family for two months in an industrial warehouse on Salaheddin Street, the strip’s main north-south highway, she explains, when they came under heavy fire from the Israeli military.

In a whisper, she recalls being shot at, explosions and bulldozing. She says she watched her brothers and sisters die around her. Her mother and three of her siblings were able to flee, but she’s not sure where they went.

After a chance encounter and the discovery of Roba’s identification card under rubble, a weeks-long CNN investigation has been able to piece together what happened during one terrifying night in early January, which left five of her siblings dead. Their story offers a window into the Israeli military’s overwhelming and often indiscriminate use of force in areas where civilians were told they would be safe, helping to uncover an atrocity that would otherwise have remained hidden.

How CNN reported this story​

To find survivors of the January 4 attack on Salaheddin Street in central Gaza, CNN contacted the owners of the warehouses where displaced people sheltered and hospitals where they were treated. To corroborate their testimonies, reporters in Gaza, Jerusalem and London drew on a mixture of on-the-ground reporting and open-source techniques. The team studied two months' worth of satellite imagery, as well as videos and photos shared on social media, to help determine the type of munition dropped on the warehouse and to corroborate timing. The imagery was also reviewed by ballistics experts and forensic pathologists.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Israeli forces fire on crowd waiting for aid (100+ killed, hundreds more injured)


Aid groups say it has become nearly impossible to deliver humanitarian assistance in most of Gaza because of the difficulty of coordinating with the Israeli military, ongoing hostilities and the breakdown of public order, with crowds of desperate people overwhelming aid convoys.

[IDF acknowledges firing on civilians who were "threatening". Some casualties likely due to trampling.]

--

WaPo

Israeli forces opened fire on members of the crowd who approached soldiers in a manner deemed threatening, and the military is reviewing the incident, according to Israeli officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.
Aerial footage released Thursday by the Israel Defense Forces appeared to show hundreds of people streaming toward a convoy of slow-moving trucks.

Aid organizations have issued stark warnings on the scale of hunger and deprivation among Gaza’s residents, suggesting that the enclave could be on the brink of a famine. The situation is particularly bleak among the 300,000 people remaining in northern Gaza, where aid organizations withdrew months ago. Last week, U.N. officials said that the volume of aid entering the strip has collapsed as Israeli airstrikes target the police officers who guard the convoys, exposing them to looting.

--

CNN

What we know:

Civilians had swarmed around newly arrived aid trucks in the hope of getting food, when Israeli tanks and drones started shooting at the people in Haroun Al Rasheed Street in western Gaza City, in the Sheikh Ajleen area.

As the aid trucks tried to escape the area, others were accidentally rammed, causing further deaths and injuries, an eyewitness told CNN.

Israeli government spokesperson Avi Hyman also told reporters that the incident was "obviously a tragedy, but we're not sure of the specifics quite yet."
 
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Valletta

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Vanellus

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Valletta

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essentialsaltes

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Anesthetics, crutches, dates. Inside Israel’s ghost list of items arbitrarily denied entry into Gaza

Humanitarian workers and government officials working to deliver urgently needed aid for Gaza say a clear pattern has emerged of Israeli obstruction, as disease and near-famine grip parts of the besieged enclave.

The Israeli agency that controls access to Gaza for the multi-billion-dollar aid effort has imposed arbitrary and contradictory criteria, according to more than two dozen humanitarian and government officials interviewed by CNN.

CNN has also reviewed documents compiled by major participants in the humanitarian operation that list the items most frequently rejected by the Israelis. These include anesthetics and anesthesia machines, oxygen cylinders, ventilators and water filtration systems.

Other items that have ended up in bureaucratic limbo include dates, sleeping bags, medicines to treat cancer, water purification tablets and maternity kits.

In January, US Senators Chris Van Hollen and Jeff Merkley saw maternity kits and water filtration systems among the items Israel turned back from its inspection point in Nitzana.

“In no rational world could (these) be deemed dual use or any kind of military threat,” Van Hollen told CNN weeks after his trip to Egypt’s side of the Rafah crossing.

Anesthetics, crutches and other ‘frequently rejected items’​

CNN has obtained documents from three major participants in the humanitarian operation that list what they called the “most frequently rejected items.” Among them are essential medical supplies: anesthesia machines and anesthetics, crutches, generators, ventilators, x-ray machines and oxygen cylinders.

For doctors and patients inside Gaza, the implications are excruciating. There are numerous reports of preventable deaths for lack of oxygen and ventilators. Over 1,000 children have undergone leg amputations in Gaza, according to UNICEF, some without anesthesia. That figure was compiled by UNICEF at the end of November and has not been updated since.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Anesthetics, crutches, dates. Inside Israel’s ghost list of items arbitrarily denied entry into Gaza

Humanitarian workers and government officials working to deliver urgently needed aid for Gaza say a clear pattern has emerged of Israeli obstruction, as disease and near-famine grip parts of the besieged enclave.

Enough of this malarkey.

Biden announces US airdrops of humanitarian assistance into Gaza

The United States will begin air dropping food aid to the people of Gaza, President Joe Biden announced Friday, as the humanitarian crisis deepens and Israel continues to resist opening additional land crossings to allow more assistance into the war-torn strip.

Earlier this week, Jordan, Egypt, the UAE, Qatar and France airdropped relief aid on various areas in the Gaza Strip in a sign of how desperate the situation has become.
 
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Valletta

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Enough of this malarkey.

Biden announces US airdrops of humanitarian assistance into Gaza

The United States will begin air dropping food aid to the people of Gaza, President Joe Biden announced Friday, as the humanitarian crisis deepens and Israel continues to resist opening additional land crossings to allow more assistance into the war-torn strip.

Earlier this week, Jordan, Egypt, the UAE, Qatar and France airdropped relief aid on various areas in the Gaza Strip in a sign of how desperate the situation has become.
Joe also is required by the Hostage Act to take action to secure the release of any American citizen held hostage.
 
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Valletta

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Curbing hostage deal hopes, Netanyahu says Hamas putting up ‘brick wall’ of demands​

“We face a brick wall of delusional, unrealistic Hamas demands,” said Netanyahu in a press conference at the Kirya military headquarters in Tel Aviv, adding that the terrorist group “knows its demands are delusional and is not even trying to move close to an area of agreement. That’s the situation.”
 
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JosephZ

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wing2000

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Enough of this malarkey.

Biden announces US airdrops of humanitarian assistance into Gaza

The United States will begin air dropping food aid to the people of Gaza, President Joe Biden announced Friday, as the humanitarian crisis deepens and Israel continues to resist opening additional land crossings to allow more assistance into the war-torn strip.

Earlier this week, Jordan, Egypt, the UAE, Qatar and France airdropped relief aid on various areas in the Gaza Strip in a sign of how desperate the situation has become.

National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said the airdrops would be “a supplement to — not a replacement for — moving things by ground.” He emphasized the difficult nature of airdrops, noting the danger to pilots flying above an active war zone, and how crowded the Gaza Strip is.

Airdrops are a “last-resort, extraordinarily expensive way of providing assistance,” Philippe Lazzarini, the head of the principal U.N. agency for Palestinian affairs, told reporters Thursday in East Jerusalem.


Canada is considering similar operations.

 
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FreeinChrist

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ADVISOR HAT

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Folks, this is a heated topic and a few are really getting into personal attacks with each other. If it keeps up, we can do thread bans, or close the thread, or give warnings.

Keep it civil.

 
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