Israel-Hamas Thread II

[wing2000]

Continuation of the thread closed on 4 Nov 23: Hamas-Israel News Thread

Updates regarding the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

 

[wing2000]

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken made an unannounced visit on Sunday to the Israeli-occupied West Bank to meet with Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the internationally backed Palestinian Authority, and other Palestinian leaders.

The top American diplomat’s visit to the West Bank city of Ramallah followed talks with Israeli and Arab leaders in Tel Aviv and Amman, Jordan, that have focused on preventing Israel’s war against Hamas in the Gaza Strip from spreading, and on convincing the Israeli government to do more to limit civilian casualties in the enclave.

Israel-Hamas War: Israel Announces ‘Large Attack’ as Communications Blackout Cuts Off Gaza

The Israeli military’s chief spokesman said its forces had fully encircled Gaza City. Media reports that emerged despite the blackout indicated that intense strikes were underway.

www.nytimes.com

 

[wing2000]

U.S. Officials Outline Steps to Israel to Reduce Civilian Casualties​

"U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the meetings were private, said there had been a number of conversations in which they had advised their Israeli counterparts to take a more deliberate approach in their operations.

U.S. officials told the Israelis that they could reduce civilian casualties if they improved how they targeted Hamas leaders, gathered more intelligence on Hamas command and control networks before launching strikes, used smaller bombs to collapse the tunnel network and employed their ground forces to separate civilian population centers from where the militants are concentrated.

...

In the first two weeks of the war, roughly 90 percent of the munitions Israel dropped in Gaza were satellite-guided bombs of 1,000 to 2,000 pounds, according to a senior U.S. military official. The rest were 250-pound small-diameter bombs."

 

[wing2000]

Updates regarding the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

...as a reminder.

 

[wing2000]

The Israeli military announced that its forces had fully encircled Gaza City and were carrying out “a significant operation” in the Gaza Strip late Sunday, as the entire enclave was plunged into the same kind of widespread communications blackout that cut it off from the world during Israel’s initial ground invasion 10 days ago.

“At this hour, we are carrying out a large attack on terrorist infrastructure both below and above ground,” Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the Israeli military’s chief spokesman, said in a late-night briefing.

Israel has described Gaza City, in the north of the enclave, as a center for Hamas’s military operations, and its encirclement of the city appeared aimed at cutting it off from the rest of the strip. “Essentially today there is a northern Gaza and a southern Gaza,” Admiral Hagari said.

Israel-Hamas War: Israel Announces ‘Large Attack’ as Communications Blackout Cuts Off Gaza

Israel’s military spokesman said its forces had fully encircled Gaza City. Media reports that emerged despite the blackout indicated that intense strikes were underway.

www.nytimes.com

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gaza death toll passes 10,000, health officials say; Blinken says more aid coming soon​

The Gaza Health Ministry said the death toll in the enclave surpassed 10,000 after four weeks of war with Israel. [the toll included 4,104 children]

Internet and communications services gradually returned to parts of the Gaza Strip on Monday morning after a “complete disruption” overnight

Here is what we know about some of the reported strikes in Gaza over the weekend [none of these can be completely confirmed independently by the Post]:

• Gaza City hospitals: The Gaza Health Ministry said the Gaza Psychiatric Hospital — the enclave’s only facility of its kind — was hit late Sunday and eight people were killed. The ministry said strikes in the same area also killed four people in the government-run Gaza Eye Hospital and four others inside the Rantisi Pediatric Hospital, and it blamed Israel for the attacks. The Washington Post could not independently confirm
• Reported strikes on Shati refugee camp: The Shati refugee camp was struck overnight Sunday into Monday, in what one employee at nearby al-Shifa Hospital called “a massacre.” ...the employee said the scale of the damage would probably be large because the camp is so densely populated.
• Maghazi refugee camp: The Gaza Health Ministry said at least 47 people were killed and dozens more injured in a Saturday strike on the Maghazi refugee camp in central Gaza.
• Reported strike on Jabalya camp: The Jabalya refugee camp was reportedly struck overnight Saturday into Sunday, and at least six people were killed, according to Al Jazeera.

Jordan’s air force conducted a late-night airdrop of medical aid at a field hospital in Gaza [an apparent first]

As Gaza death toll soars, secrecy shrouds Israel’s targeting process​

The Israeli airstrikes that hit the Jabalya refugee camp on Oct. 31 sent buildings tumbling down on families displaced from across the besieged enclave. More than 110 people were killed, many of them women and children crushed beneath the rubble, doctors said.

“The Jabalya strike, because it was a planned attack, shows that Israel must have a tolerance for civilian casualties which is orders of magnitude greater than that that was used by, say, the U.S. Air Force in the war against ISIS,” said Mark Lattimer, executive director of the Ceasefire Centre for Civilian Rights.

International law requires militaries to make clear distinctions between civilians and militants, and to take all possible precautions to prevent civilian harm. The principle of proportionality prohibits armies from inflicting civilian casualties that are “excessive” in relation to the direct military advantage anticipated at the time of the strike.

It is an inexact standard that requires a full investigation, a difficult task in an active war zone. How Israel is selecting its targets is shrouded in secrecy, making it extremely hard for experts to judge their legality.

 

[essentialsaltes]

South Africa becomes latest country to recall ambassador to Israel​

[In addition to recalling their own ambassador,] Ntshavheni also criticized Israel’s ambassador to South Africa, Eli Belotserkovsky, accusing him of making “continuing disparaging remarks” about those who oppose the actions of Israeli authorities in Gaza.

Bahrain, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Honduras, Jordan and Turkey also said they recalled their ambassadors to Israel in recent weeks. Bolivia went a step further and announced it would sever its diplomatic relations with Israel.

 

[Valletta]

Jordan airdrops aid to Gaza hospital with permission of Israel

Jordan says air force has dropped aid into Gaza

It was 'very specific delivery' to a hospital run by the kingdom's military, diplomat says

www.thenationalnews.com

 

[wing2000]

In a rare announcement, the US military said a guided missile submarine has arrived in the Middle East, a message of deterrence clearly directed at regional adversaries as the Biden administration tries to avoid a broader conflict amid the Israel-Hamas war.

US Central Command said on social media Sunday that an Ohio-class submarine was entering its area of responsibility. A picture posted with the announcement appeared to show the sub in the Suez Canal northeast of Cairo.

...

Each SSGN can carry 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles, 50% more than US guided-missile destroyers pack and almost four times what the US Navy’s newest attack subs are armed with.

Each Tomahawk can carry up to a 1,000-pound high-explosive warhead.

“SSGNs can deliver a lot of firepower very rapidly,” said Carl Schuster, a former director of operations at the US Pacific Command’s Joint Intelligence Center told CNN in 2021.

“One-hundred and fifty-four Tomahawks accurately deliver a lot of punch. No opponent of the US can ignore the threat.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/05/politics/us-missile-submarine-middle-east/index.html

 

[rjs330]

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken made an unannounced visit on Sunday to the Israeli-occupied West Bank to meet with Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the internationally backed Palestinian Authority, and other Palestinian leaders.

The top American diplomat’s visit to the West Bank city of Ramallah followed talks with Israeli and Arab leaders in Tel Aviv and Amman, Jordan, that have focused on preventing Israel’s war against Hamas in the Gaza Strip from spreading, and on convincing the Israeli government to do more to limit civilian casualties in the enclave.

Israel-Hamas War: Israel Announces ‘Large Attack’ as Communications Blackout Cuts Off Gaza

The Israeli military’s chief spokesman said its forces had fully encircled Gaza City. Media reports that emerged despite the blackout indicated that intense strikes were underway.

www.nytimes.com

Anyone trying to convince Hamas to stop using civilians as shields? Are there any articles on that?

 

[Chesterton]

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gaza workers expelled from Israel accuse Israeli authorities of abuse, including beatings​

When the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel was first launched, Israeli media reported of initial fears that Hamas militants were among the workers with permits, although an Israeli security official later told CNN the men were detained for being in Israel illegally after their work permits were revoked, not for suspected terror activity.

Six human rights organizations in Israel have filed a petition to Israel’s High Court arguing these detentions were “without legal authority and without legal grounds.”

An Israeli security official told CNN that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) was aware of several incidents of “abuse” of Gazan workers by IDF soldiers.

When asked if any of the detainees died as a result of abuse, the official said that they were aware of two deaths of Gazan workers who were detained, but said these deaths were the result of chronic, long-term health issues these workers had before entering Israel, not the result of abuse.

Most workers from Gaza work in construction or agriculture.

Qatar condemns Israel’s claims about Hamas tunnel under Gaza hospital it funded​

Qatar has condemned Israel for its allegations about the existence of a Hamas tunnel under Sheikh Hamad Hospital, which was funded by Qatar Fund for Development in northern Gaza, saying the claims were made “without any tangible evidence or independent investigation.”

“This is a blatant attempt to justify the occupation's targeting of civilian infrastructure, including hospitals, schools, residential areas, and shelters for displaced people,” the chairman of the Qatari Committee for the Reconstruction of Gaza Ambassador Mohammed El Emadi said in a statement on Monday.

70% of the 2 million people in Gaza are displaced with many living in inhumane conditions, UN agency says​

"UNRWA shelters have reported thousands of cases of acute respiratory, skin infections, diarrhea, and chicken pox," the statement said.

​

 

[rjs330]

Wait it's illegal to detain people who are in Israel illegally? I find that hard to believe.

It would definitely be wrong to abuse those taken into custody though.

I'm sure Qatar knows exactly what Hamas has and has not done and where they've put all the tunnels.

Why are people so quick to believe supporters of terrorists?

 

[Pommer]

Wait it's illegal to detain people who are in Israel illegally? I find that hard to believe.

It would definitely be wrong to abuse those taken into custody though.

I'm sure Qatar knows exactly what Hamas has and has not done and where they've put all the tunnels.

Why are people so quick to believe supporters of terrorists?

Do you miss this part?
”An Israeli security official told CNN that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) was aware of several incidents of ‘abuse’ of Gazan workers by IDF soldiers.”

 

[Valletta]

Wait it's illegal to detain people who are in Israel illegally? I find that hard to believe.

It would definitely be wrong to abuse those taken into custody though.

I'm sure Qatar knows exactly what Hamas has and has not done and where they've put all the tunnels.

Why are people so quick to believe supporters of terrorists?

It's sad how many news outlets readily accept stories from Hamas and their supporters as true.

 

[Valletta]

Elderly Jewish man dies after ‘altercation’ with pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks​

Elderly Jewish man dies after ‘altercation’ with pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks

A 69-year-old Jewish man died Monday after suffering a severe head injury during an altercation with a pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks, California authorities said.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Landon Caeli]

More than 10,000 killed in Gaza, Hamas-controlled health ministry says, as condemnation of Israel’s campaign grows​

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/06/middleeast/gaza-10k-deaths-intl/index.html

...Since Hamas said it, and according to their history from the misfire and other exaggerated numbers, it's likely about 1/3rd of that.

So probably about 3,300 dead in reality.

 

[Chesterton]

Elderly Jewish man dies after ‘altercation’ with pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks​

Elderly Jewish man dies after ‘altercation’ with pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks

A 69-year-old Jewish man died Monday after suffering a severe head injury during an altercation with a pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks, California authorities said.

www.yahoo.com

 

[wing2000]

More than 10,000 killed in Gaza, Hamas-controlled health ministry says, as condemnation of Israel’s campaign grows​

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/06/middleeast/gaza-10k-deaths-intl/index.html

...Since Hamas said it, and according to their history from the misfire and other exaggerated numbers, it's likely about 1/3rd of that.

So probably about 3,300 dead in reality.

While I remain skeptical of any casualty figure in a time of war, it's only logical that many thousands will die when, as of Nov 1st, the IDF announced it had dropped 10,000 munitiions on Gaza, a heavily populated area that is just 1/3 the size of the L.A. Metro area. IMO, your 3,300 number is simply not logical.

The Israeli defense ministry said it had dropped at least 10,000 munitions as of Nov. 1, in three and a half weeks of war. By contrast, the U.S. military dropped about 2,000 to 3,000 munitions per month during the most intense combat operations against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria from 2015 to 2017, according to a report by the RAND Corporation. Only in one month, in the battle for Raqqa in August 2017, did that number hit 5,000.

Under Scrutiny Over Gaza, Israel Points to Civilian Toll of U.S. Wars

Israeli officials say it is impossible to defeat Hamas without killing innocents, a lesson they argue Americans and their allies should understand.

www.nytimes.com

 

[wing2000]

As I wrote in a prior thread:

"To destroy Hamas, Isreal is aiming to destroy the underground tunnel network that covers the entirety of Gaza. Given how extensive the network is and Hamas' propensity to locate their high value military targets near mosque, hospitals etc, Israel is faced with the challenge of how to destroy the tunnels while minimizing human life. It also appears Israel has no inention of sending it's troops into the tunnels given the high risk factor. In the case of the Jabaliya neighborhood, at least two 2,000-pound bombs were used in a densely populated area. The human toll from such a decion would be obvious to the Israeli government.

Israel state's it was targetting a high level Hamas commander as well as tunnel infrastrcure.

Is killing so many civilians justfified? I'm not convinced it is.

Once more, given the situation, we'll see many more Jabaliya like bombings in the days and weeks ahead. Thousands of civilians will die as a result."

The law of armed conflict says the incidental killing of and harm to civilians and damage to objects must not exceed the direct military advantage to be gained. The Geneva Conventions, the widely accepted basis for international humanitarian law and codes of warfare, were adopted in 1949 with the aim of preventing governments from inflicting the level of mass casualties of World War II.