Isn't poverty...

[DD2008]

Do a lot of Christians even bother to try and find out if poor might actually have jobs--it seems to me that a lot just assume that if a person is poor, they must be lazy bums who aren't working!

Well, there is so much opportunity in the US that a person should never be out of work for very long unless he just isn't trying very hard. If you work 8 to 12 hours a day at a normal American job then when you are laid off or fired you should work 8 to 12 hours a day finding or creating a new job. If you aren't doing that and you need work, then you're lazy.

 

[Thekla]

Well, there is so much opportunity in the US that a person should never be out of work for very long unless he just isn't trying very hard. If you work 8 to 12 hours a day at a normal American job then when you are laid off or fired you should work 8 to 12 hours a day finding or creating a new job. If you aren't doing that and you need work, then you're lazy.

It depends on where you live; jobs are terribly hard to come by in some areas, and in more areas now that the Recession holds sway.

Working a minimum wage job really doesn't meet expenses these days; full time jobs with benefits are increasingly a thing of the past.

And there are other issues; I posted this previously, but it may have been missed:

Please be aware that we often see as "laziness" is often just a symptom of actual mental illness (dx descriptives: apathy, avolition, anhedonia, lack of motivation - one of the most prominent symptoms in Schizophrenia, also occurs in Depression and the depressive phase of Bipolar; ie. all the Axis I psychiatric disorders), lack of a skill set, deep discouragement or a spiritual illness. __________________

 

[DD2008]

It depends on where you live; jobs are terribly hard to come by in some areas, and in more areas now that the Recession holds sway.

People should try harder, create jobs, or move somewhere else.

Working a minimum wage job really doesn't meet expenses these days; full time jobs with benefits are increasingly a thing of the past.

Capitalism is for everyone. We aren't forced to work as an employee of others.

And there are other issues; I posted this previously, but it may have been missed:

Please be aware that we often see as "laziness" is often just a symptom of actual mental illness (dx descriptives: apathy, avolition, anhedonia, lack of motivation - one of the most prominent symptoms in Schizophrenia, also occurs in Depression and the depressive phase of Bipolar; ie. all the Axis I psychiatric disorders), lack of a skill set, deep discouragement or a spiritual illness. __________________

If people weren't too lazy to work then these people would be easier to spot.

 

[Thekla]

People should try harder, create jobs, or move somewhere else.

Except, to create jobs requires capital, as does moving (to another area to find work). And trying harder doesn't expand a narrowed job market.

In my experience, many charities do have resources dedicated to helping people find work; this of course is a great service !

Capitalism is for everyone. We aren't forced to work as an employee of others.

My husband and I used to have a small business, so I do have some experience in this. Creating a new business requires an initial investment as well as some sort of income aside from the business itself. IIRC, it typically takes about three years to turn a profit.

If people weren't too lazy to work then these people would be easier to spot.

There are probably a great more than we expect in this category. Conditions like OCD and others not mentioned above can make working very difficult for some people. In short, laziness is a "symptom", no matter the source (psychiatric, emotional, spiritual). Thus, the cause of the symptom must be treated first - and this is not always easy. It takes time and dedication - in short, love. And this, imo, is where we can be a great help; to demonstrate that we value another in our actions and interactions.

Finally, where the underlying cause is of psychiatric origin, a substantial percentage will not likely be able to (ever) hold a full time job ie become fully self-sufficient. Persons with this challenge are not always easy to spot.

 

[DD2008]

Except, to create jobs requires capital, as does moving (to another area to find work). And trying harder doesn't expand a narrowed job market.

I live in a state full of Mexicans. I have actually learned a lot from these folks. They swim across the river, walk into the country to meet up with other Mexicans who are already here and they find work, create work, work hard, and are happy as pigs in slop. They swam that river with just the clothes on their backs many times with maybe 20 dollars between three of them and in a couple of years of work they are pretty well off. They don't waste any time and they are very resourceful and smart. That's why we all better get to learning Spanish in a hurry because those folks ain't lazy and they're going to be in charge soon. Majority rules in a democratic republic.

In my experience, many charities do have resources dedicated to helping people find work; this of course is a great service !

Certainly, if it's ran by the Church or the private sector. If it is ran by the government it is a waste of tons of money that they force out of people who work and then spend like it grew in the yard.

My husband and I used to have a small business, so I do have some experience in this. Creating a new business requires an initial investment as well as some sort of income aside from the business itself. IIRC, it typically takes about three years to turn a profit.

It depends on the business and your lifestyle. Ask the Mexicans who make a killing mowing yards in the parts of the country where the grass is usually green.

There are probably a great more than we expect in this category. Conditions like OCD and others not mentioned above can make working very difficult for some people. In short, laziness is a "symptom", no matter the source (psychiatric, emotional, spiritual). Thus, the cause of the symptom must be treated first - and this is not always easy. It takes time and dedication - in short, love. And this, imo, is where we can be a great help; to demonstrate that we value another in our actions and interactions.

The Church's job is to minister to people and try to spread the gospel to the wicked. It is perfectly normal for the Church to deal with this situation. However, when the government gets involved and starts using tax money for things that should be the Church's sector then the tax payers are getting ripped off because the government is wasting resources on things it shouldn't instead of things it should such as the military, infrastructure, and upholding the law.

Finally, where the underlying cause is of psychiatric origin, a substantial percentage will not likely be able to (ever) hold a full time job ie become fully self-sufficient. Persons with this challenge are not always easy to spot.

They would be very easy to spot if the able bodied people would get off their lazy ends, turn off their tvs and computers, stop whining because they don't want to work, and go out and do something useful.

 

[Chris81]

Having grown up in a poor family, I can attest to the fact that it is hard to accept help from others. When you are barely living off of what you make and a series of unfortunate event leave you unable to feed your family, it is great when you can get some canned food and some other essentials to tide you by for a few days. It often seems as though the poor are portrayed as lazy ungrateful leaches. Nothing can be further from the truth, in fact my father and I would volunteer for many church projects. My father was always the first person to be called in our church community to handle various emergencies. We also donated food back to the church food pantry knowing how blessed we were to have that resource and wishing to help those who may use it in the future.

Now, living on my own with a good job as a bridge engineer, the one thing that I notice is that the middle class are very much isolated from the poor. You really have to seek out opportunities to help the poor. We should always remember that there are poor people and that we could be in their situation. It is not about giving handouts to the poor as it is to help out those in need so that they can help themselves and others.

 

[cobweb]

My Dad has had 3 heart attacks. He lost his job and his health insurance after the last one. He was out of work for nearly 2 years and no private charities had the funds to help him get his (very expensive and necesary) heart medication. I know... I tried calling everyone.

Explain to me exactly how he was supposed to "work harder"? This is a man who regulary works 70 hours per week and has done so his whole life.


Want to see poverty? Go move to the coal fields of SW VA or Eastern KY. Fifteen years ago you could still find people living without indoor plumbing (I know.... I was one of them). Those are some of the hardest working folks I have ever met.

 

[Thekla]

Having grown up in a poor family, I can attest to the fact that it is hard to accept help from others. When you are barely living off of what you make and a series of unfortunate event leave you unable to feed your family, it is great when you can get some canned food and some other essentials to tide you by for a few days. It often seems as though the poor are portrayed as lazy ungrateful leaches. Nothing can be further from the truth, in fact my father and I would volunteer for many church projects. My father was always the first person to be called in our church community to handle various emergencies. We also donated food back to the church food pantry knowing how blessed we were to have that resource and wishing to help those who may use it in the future.

Now, living on my own with a good job as a bridge engineer, the one thing that I notice is that the middle class are very much isolated from the poor. You really have to seek out opportunities to help the poor. We should always remember that there are poor people and that we could be in their situation. It is not about giving handouts to the poor as it is to help out those in need so that they can help themselves and others.

My Dad has had 3 heart attacks. He lost his job and his health insurance after the last one. He was out of work for nearly 2 years and no private charities had the funds to help him get his (very expensive and necesary) heart medication. I know... I tried calling everyone.

Explain to me exactly how he was supposed to "work harder"? This is a man who regulary works 70 hours per week and has done so his whole life.


Want to see poverty? Go move to the coal fields of SW VA or Eastern KY. Fifteen years ago you could still find people living without indoor plumbing (I know.... I was one of them). Those are some of the hardest working folks I have ever met.

QFT

 

[katherine2001]

And just remember that Christ Himself during His ministry was homeless. He did not work as a carpenter during His ministry to earn money for food, lodging, etc. If people hadn't taken Him and His disciples into their homes for meals and lodging, they would have had to camp out at night and forage for food (if His followers hadn't provided the care). So, was Christ being lazy and should he have not been helped since He wasn't working as a carpenter when he had the ability to do so?

 

[lighthouse_hope]

In a perfect society only the lazy lack something.

 

[tadoflamb]

I've been active in my parish's St. Vincent de Paul conference for about four years now. We meet all sorts of people, and while it would be difficult to characterize them with one word I certainly wouldn't call the people we serve lazy.

I believe the reason our Lord wants us to serve others isn't so much for their benefit but more for our own spiritual well being. I've had my perspective drastically changed. As someone said, our society has done a good job of pushing the poor to the fringes and out of sight. It's been every Vincentian's epiphany in our conference that we had no idea there was so much suffering right in the neighborhoods where we live, work and worship. Literally, the poor are pushed off the street, out of sight.

As Vincentian's we're more interested in charity than welfare. We believe work adds to the dignity of the person. We also want to help those we encounter to use what resources, meager though they may be, in a manner which helps maintain their self-sufficiency. We're more about a 'hand up, than a hand out'. As a group, it's pretty hard to take advantage of us. We work in pairs, and meet regularly to pray and discuss some of the visits we make. Also, we don't have the resources to permanently support people. We can seal the gap between hope and despair, but to maintain someone in their home for months and months is not something we're able to do.

So, if someone is truly lazy, they can only get so far with us. I haven't encountered too many of them. Generally the people who call me have a real, pressing and sincere need.

There is pressure on us to be merely a check writing entity, but we resist it. We're all about the home visit, develping relationships and trying to stick with people through tough times. At times, I run into a welfare, 'I'm so helpless' type of mentality. It's interesting dealing with everything we have to deal with. There's just so many different types of people with different kinds of needs.

 

[Dorothea]

QFT

Ditto! We're experiencing unemployment for the first time in over a decade, and so, it's been pretty tough. Searching for jobs the past several months. Really hard on my husband. He retired from the military, and it's been difficult since to find anything. He's even applied for fast food restaurant manager positions. Still nothing came of that. He's willing to do whatever. So, it'll be interesting to see how we pay all our bills with only about 25% of the amount we usually get.