Cross or Crucifix

[Always in His Presence]

Your opinion was expressed in these quite non-scriptural words, "Has exactly ZERO to do with the Crucifixion"

Which is demonstrated accurate by reading the Scripture.

If I am mistaken - then, as tiresome as it is - please, third request - show me where the verses speak of the Crucifixion.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Which is demonstrated accurate by reading the Scripture.

If I am mistaken - then, as tiresome as it is - please, third request - show me where the verses speak of the Crucifixion.

Conversation on this matter with you has become like going around and around on a merry-go-round. I do not intend to indulge your hyperliteralism approach. One reads holy scripture to understand its meaning not to worship its words as some kind of inviolable set of verbs, nouns, and adjectives which can never be interpreted.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Conversation on this matter with you has become like going around and around on a merry-go-round. I do not intend to indulge your hyperliteralism approach. One reads holy scripture to understand its meaning not to worship its words as some kind of inviolable set of verbs, nouns, and adjectives which can never be interpreted.

Citing a scripture verse to prove your belief, when the scripture verse has nothing to do with the subject is really hard to support - huh?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Citing a scripture verse to prove your belief, when the scripture verse has nothing to do with the subject is really hard to support - huh?

You interpret the passage as having nothing to do with Christ. The ancient churches see this matter differently. I've already given you information about interpreting the passage (Ezekiel 9:1-4).

 

[Yarddog]

Growing up in the Roman Catholic Church the Crucifix was always the symbol we had in the home. After leaving the church and becoming Pentecostal, now it is a Cross.

Which do you choose, and why.

Let's show our good Christian attitude and take jabs at each other.

For me - I choose the Cross, because I view it like I view the empty tomb - the Risen Savior.

I hold reverence to either. We all know what occurred on the cross. Whether a person's cross is empty or holds the figure of our Lord, what's important is a person faith in Jesus.

 

[Always in His Presence]

You interpret the passage as having nothing to do with Christ. The ancient churches see this matter differently. I've already given you information about interpreting the passage (Ezekiel 9:1-4).

Which is a commentary.

An opinion.

 

[Jipsah]

I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."

The empty cross is too easy a symbol. It doesn't remind us that the cross was the instrument of our Lord's death. The "empty cross" is the sanitized, socially acceptable, inoffensive version of the cross. No physical reminder of our Lord's sacrifice. We don't want to remember our Lord on the cross. It's awful and embarrassing; it makes people (and us) uncomfortable. God Himself was murdered in this horrible manner, and we don't like to think about it.

But we should;.

'Nuff said'.

 

[Jipsah]

We agree

Did you take exception with my showing the cross was used over 100 years before the crucifix?

The cross is easier to draw.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."

The empty cross is too easy a symbol. It doesn't remind us that the cross was the instrument of our Lord's death. The "empty cross" is the sanitized, socially acceptable, inoffensive version of the cross. No physical reminder of our Lord's sacrifice. We don't want to remember our Lord on the cross. It's awful and embarrassing; it makes people (and us) uncomfortable. God Himself was murdered in this horrible manner, and we don't like to think about it.

But we should;.

'Nuff said'.

The cross is the altar of the Lord's sacrifice and as such it is central to Christian theology and to personal belief and prayer. A crucifix is most appropriate for these things.

 

[RileyG]

I have both, and my parish displays both in different parts of the church building. The crucifix is, for me, a powerful image of the Incarnation, God taking on humanness in all the pain that that entails. The cross is a little more abstract, an image that's a little easier to look at on a daily basis, but still a reminder of the pain of the Incarnation and the risks of the life to which we are called.

If I'm looking for an image of the resurrection, probably the Christus Rex image is the best one for me. (My parish church has one of those as well, hanging in the narthex.)

I am Catholic and my parish growing up had the Christus Rex instead of a crucifix of Christ crucified above the altar. My current parish has the standard crucifix of Christ crucified.

The crucifix reminds me of Christ's passion and death.

I KNOW he is risen, and I believe it with all my heart- but the crucifix is simply a powerful reminder of his sacrifice and suffering.

That said, I do not worship icons, statues, or crucifixes. They are just visual aids.

I worship the Triune God alone.

 

[RileyG]

The cross is the altar of the Lord's sacrifice and as such it is central to Christian theology and to personal belief and prayer. A crucifix is most appropriate for these things.
View attachment 375251

Amen! I agree completely!

 

[RileyG]

I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."

The empty cross is too easy a symbol. It doesn't remind us that the cross was the instrument of our Lord's death. The "empty cross" is the sanitized, socially acceptable, inoffensive version of the cross. No physical reminder of our Lord's sacrifice. We don't want to remember our Lord on the cross. It's awful and embarrassing; it makes people (and us) uncomfortable. God Himself was murdered in this horrible manner, and we don't like to think about it.

But we should;.

'Nuff said'.

Very well said! I even heard some priests refer to the crucifix as a symbol of victory. By his death and resurrection he destroyed death and overcame the devil.

 

[ChubbyCherub]

I use 'cross' but I am from the Southern USA, Protestant and that's how I was raised.

Thinking on it, though, I like the idea that the cross is used to show that Jesus conquered death.

He was there but He is risen.

 

[RileyG]

I use 'cross' but I am from the Southern USA, Protestant and that's how I was raised.

Thinking on it, though, I like the idea that the cross is used to show that Jesus conquered death.

He was there but He is risen.

Truly he is risen! Amen! Hallelujah!

Very beautifully written post.

 

[peter2]

The cross is easier to draw.

Hello Jipsah

You make me think and tell, not from provocative intention, the crucifix should be easier to bear, since he told his yoke is easy and his burden light. I mean may be his presence on the cross make it lighter (?)

 

[peter2]

I use 'cross' but I am from the Southern USA, Protestant and that's how I was raised.

Thinking on it, though, I like the idea that the cross is used to show that Jesus conquered death.

He was there but He is risen.

Hello ChubbyCherub.
i like the idea Jesus is no longer on the cross, for such is his triumph over death, and i suppose i'd wish him not to be suffering up there on the cross.
But
is this wish a christian wish ?
Indeed i think the crucifix also displays my need of his lying on the cross in order to help me bear mine.
Indeed in his lying on the cross lies the shame from my sinning, and likely from my brother's sinning as well.
His standing up there testifies of my guilt.
It helps me to sin less, through the shame that unsettles me.
If my practice is not so, i might fail even to reach John' s baptism of repentance.
I feel like the more Jesus is on the cross, the less worldly the cross is.
When i worship with a mere cross, i might less deal with my shameful sin than i deal with the shame of this unsettling feeling that my shame actually is.
Might be a more worldly worship.

 

[RileyG]

Hello Jipsah

You make me think and tell, not from provocative intention, the crucifix should be easier to bear, since he told his yoke is easy and his burden light. I mean may be his presence on the cross make it lighter (?)

It’s a reminder of his sacrifice. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ChubbyCherub]

Hello ChubbyCherub.
i like the idea Jesus is no longer on the cross, for such is his triumph over death, and i suppose i'd wish him not to be suffering up there on the cross.
But
is this wish a christian wish ?
Indeed i think the crucifix also displays my need of his lying on the cross in order to help me bear mine.
Indeed in his lying on the cross lies the shame from my sinning, and likely from my brother's sinning as well.
His standing up there testifies of my guilt.
It helps me to sin less, through the shame that unsettles me.
If my practice is not so, i might fail even to reach John' s baptism of repentance.
I feel like the more Jesus is on the cross, the less worldly the cross is.
When i worship with a mere cross, i might less deal with my shameful sin than i deal with the shame of this unsettling feeling that my shame actually is.
Might be a more worldly worship.

Hi Peter,

I don't wish that Christ never had to suffer. I just think the cross without Him suffering represents His victory over death, which was also part of His plan, and I think it's awesome.

 

[peter2]

I don't wish that Christ never had to suffer

So, it was only a former wish of mine, when i was thinking like Peter and men, and not like God see Mt 16 23:

23 (...) you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

i greet yout christian maturity