Isn't poverty...

[tadoflamb]

You too, its nice to see you digging into scripture, we do well on the back and forth with that wouldnt you say?

All scripture is profitable...

Yes, you really helped verify and open some stuff up for me.

 

[Fireinfolding]

All scripture is profitable...

Yes, you really helped verify and open some stuff up for me.

Well kool Tadster

Well me too (actually) just started looking into it recently to see how they speak in accord with one another (you know how I have hang ups about that sorta thing)

Now lose the dude in the garb will ya?

 

[tadoflamb]

I'm still trying to figure out your 'color coding'.

Ahem. The dude in the garb is a self-portrait in Lego.

That's what I really look like in real life.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I'm still trying to figure out your 'color coding'.

Ahem. The dude in the garb is a self-portrait in Lego.

That's what I really look like in real life.

I know, my nutty colors, you will never know if theres one thing I could take into the next life it would be my highlighters, but knowing there will be a rainbow round the throne I will feel right at home.

I have seen a picture of you, and you dont look like that thing (though I do know you favor that "robed look")

 

[Thaeoles]

I'm still trying to figure out your 'color coding'.

Ahem. The dude in the garb is a self-portrait in Lego.

That's what I really look like in real life.

Might want to see a doctor about your liver if you're that jaundiced.

 

[lighthouse_hope]

One in need is key...

One who is lazy and slothful should not be rewarded for his laziness:

2 Thessalonians 3:10 KJV
[10] For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Surprise, surprise: From the Soviet Union 1936 Constitution

ARTICLE 12. In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."

The principle applied in the U.S.S.R. is that of socialism: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work."

(I wonder if they were aware were they got the quote from )

 

[katherine2001]

Poverty isn't a surprise.
Jesus even said that "the poor you will always have with you.."
And it isn't a challenge.
Jesus also told us what to do about the poor.
"..Preach the gospel to the poor.."

Go get em!

Christ also told us that we are to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty, and take in the stranger. He made it clear that if we don't do these things, we will not be in the Kingdom--saying that if you do those things, we did them to Him and that if we did not do these things, we didn't do it to Him. Look what happened to those who didn't do these things (see the last passage of Matt. 25). That so many Christians see the poor as being lazy bums and making excuses to not help the less fortunate (saying "if they don't work, they shouldn't eat"). A lot of poor people work, they just don't make enough to get above the poverty level. Kids in poorer neighborhoods go to schools where they don't get as good an education and without that, they are only going to be able to get low-paying jobs. It is a vicious cycle. So, I would definitely say that especially if we look down on the poor (and just assume that they are not working) and don't believe in helping them, then there is a huge conflict in what Christ teaches about the poor and what we believe. I very distinctly get the impression that Christ would much rather help a person who maybe didn't deserve it than just not helping the poor at all and seeing them all as lazy bums who won't work.

 

[katherine2001]

One in need is key...

One who is lazy and slothful should not be rewarded for his laziness:

2 Thessalonians 3:10 KJV
[10] For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Do a lot of Christians even bother to try and find out if poor might actually have jobs--it seems to me that a lot just assume that if a person is poor, they must be lazy bums who aren't working!

 

[katherine2001]

I guess so. It's pretty hard to take advantage of our little charitable organization. We can discern the scammers pretty quickly. I believe the church should be involved with charity as well. There's a reason our Lord wants us to be with the poor.

I agree. I also believe that God would rather have us give help to someone who maybe is taking advantage of us than have us not give to anyone because some take advantage of you. The Orthodox priests I've known encourage us to give directly to the poor and to not even think of whether we should give, just do it. If they misuse it, then God will deal with it.

 

[sunlover1]

Christ also told us that we are to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty, and take in the stranger. He made it clear that if we don't do these things, we will not be in the Kingdom-...

I'm sorry if i gave the impression that i don't feed the hungry.
That was not my intention at all.

That so many Christians see the poor as being lazy bums and making excuses to not help the less fortunate (saying "if they don't work, they shouldn't eat").

That's what the Bible says (if you don't work you don't eat)
And to be honest, many poor ARE lazy people mooching off
of the government. But as I said earlier, I'd rather err in helping
someone who is lazy than neglecting to help someone who's
starving.

A lot of poor people work, they just don't make enough to get above the poverty level. Kids in poorer neighborhoods go to schools where they don't get as good an education and without that, they are only going to be able to get low-paying jobs. It is a vicious cycle.

Amen.
That's why God says to "preach the good news to the poor"
They need to learn how to manage their homes and their lives.
Without God's direction you WOULD have a difficult time getting
out of vicious cycles.
They need, more than anything, to hear the good news and any
giving of food, clothing, etc without giving them the gospel is
only a bandaid.

Blessings

 

[Dorothea]

You'd think that by following a Savior (and the mass readings lately are all about following) who associated himself so inextricably with the poor that that's where Chrisitians would be. Sadly, I've found this not to be the case. So, I have to say that poverty is a challenge to Christianity, a challenge we've chose largely to ignore.

I ask myself, "How can this be?"

For one, Christianity is so divided right now and with the pressures each faith community experiences in finding and funding a place to worship as well as a pastor to lead them, it's no wonder that they have little resources available to help those in need.

Secondly, I wonder if it's even important to some Christian denominations that they serve those in need. I've run across attitudes of 'the deserving poor' and what not, so maybe, theologically, confronting poverty is not that important to them.

And thirdly, I've found the most prevelant charities in my area have a profit motive. That is, they've figured out how to make a career out of helping people. Sort of a 'do well by doing good' philosophy.

So, yes, poverty is a challenge to Christianity. A challenge which has gone by some, largely ignored.

True. I think this topic of poverty correlates with Christ's commandment to love your neighbor. Loving your neighbor (and your enemy) sounds easy, but for Christians, generally, it is the one of the hardest, if not the hardest commandment to follow.

 

[Dorothea]

I have no problem with scripture just mens words I cant find there. They dont say the same thing.

Again amen on scripture

If you quoted his words more we'd really bond Tad

What I hope you can understand and remember is that Saints reiterate what Scripture says.

 

[Fireinfolding]

What I hope you can understand and remember is that Saints reiterate what Scripture says.

I dont get their words though Dorothea, I prefer His, I hear His and can cross reference His, compare His, with other mens words I need to dig into their definitions then find how they mean a thing and then compare to Gods words find how he defines a thing and its often not the same, so I tend to cleave only to His words, but no I dont understand why they do that I value His words more then theirs or my own, but thats just as I am though.

 

[Dorothea]

I dont get their words though Dorothea, I prefer His, I hear His and can cross reference His, compare His, with other mens words I need to dig into their definitions then find how they mean a thing and then compare to Gods words find how he defines a thing and its often not the same, so I tend to cleave only to His words, but no I dont understand why they do that I value His words more then theirs or my own, but thats just as I am though.

Maybe you haven't read enough of their words? It takes awhile for them to sink in. It took me nearly half way into the book on St. Silouan for his words to sink in and uplift, enlighten, and bring me closer to God. THat's what they do because you can read and feel the Holy Spirit in their words. St. Silouan's study, Archimandrite Sophrony, who wrote about St. Silouan said that those who cannot understand and see the Holy Spirit in the Saints' words, are lacking the Holy Spirit. Not saying you are. As I didn't think I was. Just takes a while to get used to their language, as it's so lofty, in the heavens, filled with God's grace, that sometimes it's hard to get them.

The more I read about the Saints, the closer I get to Christ. I read the scriptures about every night, and some of St. Silouan's book about every few nights.

Again, I think it's just that you are not used to their writings or really studied them in the spirit. They say everything that comes from Scriptures and often quote from them. They know Him so well and HIs Word, that whatever they say flows from their writings. They are an inspiration to me, as I see regular man can be so much like Christ.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Maybe you haven't read enough of their words? It takes awhile for them to sink in. It took me nearly half way into the book on St. Silouan for his words to sink in and uplift, enlighten, and bring me closer to God.

I sorta did in the beginning of my walk Dorothea, and had a book burning party (of sorts) knowing that the making of many books there is no end but am commanded rather seek out of the book of the Lord. Even Paul says a babe should crave the sincere milk of the word that he might grow thereby and I wasnt growing by the words of men (my head was spinning). My growth took off by ridding myself of mens stuff and consented only to his wholesome words.

THat's what they do because you can read and feel the Holy Spirit in their words. St. Silouan's study, Archimandrite Sophrony, who wrote about St. Silouan said that those who cannot understand and see the Holy Spirit in the Saints' words, are lacking the Holy Spirit. Not saying you are. As I didn't think I was. Just takes a while to get used to their language, as it's so lofty, in the heavens, filled with God's grace, that sometimes it's hard to get them.

But the Holy Spirit gave us the scriptures, by the inspiration of God is the scriptures and by the same inspiration understanding is given. I just have a hard time with the wisdom of words (or the elloquence of mens words) their speech and preaching is by. More clarity is comes to me through His words and its His speech I want to hear, the voice of His words which are of greater importance to me, I dont value mine or anothers as I do His and respect others who also feel the same.

The more I read about the Saints, the closer I get to Christ. I read the scriptures about every night, and some of St. Silouan's book about every few nights.

Whereas I otherwise Dorothea, I read His words and He expounds those things written in the speech I hear much more clearly through.

Again, I think it's just that you are not used to their writings or really studied them in the spirit. They say everything that comes from Scriptures and often quote from them. They know Him so well and HIs Word, that whatever they say flows from their writings. They are an inspiration to me, as I see regular man can be so much like Christ.

Could be Im not used to their writings Dorothea, but I still prefer His writings and seeking Him for myself not through others, not saying there isnt any contributions to be made through others as I believe in the participation of the body of Christ but theres no substitute making His words the standard by which every mans own words falls subject to (in that respect).

 

[Thekla]

Justice is receiving what you've earned. Charity is receiving what you haven't earned from another who has earned it because that other feels you need it. Mercy isn't justice. John Chrysostom was in error there.

God's justice is mercy, as revealed by Jesus Christ in His actions among us on earth.

Plenty of the poor work; it takes more work to survive while poor than it does with sufficient income.

 

[Thekla]

Please be aware that we often see as "laziness" is often just a symptom of actual mental illness (dx descriptives apathy, avolition, anhedonia, lack of motivation - one of the most prominent symptoms in Schizophrenia, also occurs in Depression and the depressive phase of Bipolar; ie. all the Axis I psychiatric disorders), lack of a skill set, deep discouragement or a spiritual illness.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*

I sorta did in the beginning of my walk Dorothea, and had a book burning party (of sorts) knowing that the making of many books there is no end but am commanded rather seek out of the book of the Lord........

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1

*snip*

According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: "The Book of the Life of the Lamb." Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB?
The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order.

However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death. But God is also producing a book – a book containing a message of life....

 

[Fireinfolding]

God's justice is mercy, as revealed by Jesus Christ in His actions among us on earth.

Plenty of the poor work; it takes more work to survive while poor than it does with sufficient income.

Zech 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

Prov 20:7 The robbery of the wicked shall destroy them; because they refuse to do judgment.

 

[lighthouse_hope]

I sorta did in the beginning of my walk Dorothea, and had a book burning party (of sorts) knowing that the making of many books there is no end but am commanded rather seek out of the book of the Lord. Even Paul says a babe should crave the sincere milk of the word that he might grow thereby and I wasnt growing by the words of men (my head was spinning). My growth took off by ridding myself of mens stuff and consented only to his wholesome words.

That's naive, you are fooling yourself if you believe you can avoid all temptations that thousands of Christians before you had to endure. You are fooling yourself if you aren't aware that you already read the Bible within a tradition. The doctrines that we hold as orthodox today took centuries to be established, including the very canon of the Bible. Excuse my skepticism, but I doubt the Holy Spirit now reveals those doctrines particularly to our generation.