Islam--Why?

[1Prophetess]

I read over and over and over again how Muslims are killing Christians, denying them rights, even denying them the right to move away.

"As reported in RLPB 145 http://rlprayerbulletin.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/rlpb-145-sud an-burma-christian-refugees.html , the UN estimates that some half-million displaced predominantly Christian African (non-Arab) Nuba will face famine conditions by March. Not content to decimate the Nuba by means of famine -- something the Arab-supremacist, Islamist regime in Khartoum achieved in the early 1990s -- nor to allow their escape into South Sudan, Khartoum appears to be preparing to completely annihilate the Nuba." The interior site no longer works. Sudan & Syria: millions of Christians facing death

Is there no religious freedom with Muslims? cobourgatheist.net It appears that Islamic countries are the worst offenders in allowing freedom of religion.

I had a great deal of disrespect for the fact that religions of the past disallowed people freedom of religion (such as times in the Crusades and others). Denying people religious freedom is not a product of today's world. And yet, Islam does it. Islam denies people all kinds of rights--but not so much males--just women and children are treated like dogs.

Is this why Muslims did 911--because we're Christians? "On 9/11, Al Qaeda did not act in the name of 19 people, or ten thousand or so followers. It acted in the name of Islam." Islam Did Attack Us on September 11 So can I believe that Muslims hate Christians? Do they hate me? I think I can guess that they do.

Do they all believe that we Christians should die if we do not convert? "...Muslim religion, you know, they have an objective to convert all infidels or kill them." Herman Cain: Many Muslims Want to ‘Kill’ or ‘Convert all Infidels’ | TheBlaze.com I think that killing someone is the ultimate hatred.

Why do Muslims not allow religious freedom? "Sheik Najih Ibrahim Ibn Abdulla summarizes the purpose of the Jizya. He says, quoting Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, that the Jizya is enacted:

"...to spare the blood (of the Zimmis), to be a symbol of humiliation of the infidels and as an insult and punishment to them, and as the Shafi`ites indicate, the Jizya is offered in exchange for residing in an Islamic country." Thus Ibn Qayyim adds, "Since the entire religion belongs to God, it aims at humiliating ungodliness and its followers, and insulting them. Imposing the Jizya on the followers of ungodliness and oppressing them is required by God's religion. The Qur'anic text hints at this meaning when it says: `until they give the tribute by force with humiliation.' (Qur'an 9:29).
​

Rights of Non-Muslims in an Islamic State

Does anyone believe that humiliation, insults and punishments create converts? I think it would create hatred.

Why are there Dancing Boys in Afghanistan where small boys are prostitutes and used for sex? How can Muslims think it is right to use a boy for sex? The Dancing Boys Of Afghanistan | FRONTLINE | PBS Sadly, some of the males who do this can't understand how anyone would even want a female!

Or a girl? "...then Ahmad and Abu ‘Ubayd say that one a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated even without her consent, but that does not apply in the case of who is younger. Maalik, al-Shaafa’i and Abu Haneefah said: the marriage may be consummated when the girl is able for intercourse, which varies from one girl to another, so no age limit can be set. This is the correct view. There is nothing in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah to set an age limit, or to forbid that in the case of a girl who is able for it before the age of nine, or to allow it in the case of a girl who is not able for it and has reached the age of nine. Islam Question and Answer - On acting; and the ruling on marrying young girls

After reading these two sites, I can only say that Islam is the religion of child molesters! Islam is a religion of hatred of anyone who is not in power!

Why did Muhammad hate women?

On pages 86-87, Mustafa states: "The [wife-]beating must never be in exaggerated, blind anger, in order to avoid serious harm [to the woman]." He adds, "It is forbidden to beat her on the sensitive parts of her body, such as the face, breast, abdomen, and head. Instead, she should be beaten on the arms and legs," using a "rod that must not be stiff, but slim and lightweight so that no wounds, scars, or bruises are caused." Similarly, "[the blows] must not be hard." This article goes on to state that the head of the Islamic people in North America agrees that Islamic husbands can hit their wives. http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1091.htm

Why did Muhammad have sex with a 9 year old girl? Ayesha the child wife of the Prophet

Why does Islam allow FGM? Islam Watch - "Women Under Islam - Female Genital Mutilation" by Adrian Morgan

Islam considers a woman's inheritance to be half of a man's. Islam considers a woman's testimony to be half as good as a man's.

Islam hates me--a woman. That is all I can conclude.

I'm very troubled by Islam. I do not see it as any type of freedom. I see it is respecting males and totally disrespecting females an even children. I've read the Princess Diaries, and I am shocked at how wives are discarded in the desert without a headstone when they were faithful wives and then died. I am shocked that a girl who is raped is made to go through the birth and then stoned after she delivers the baby. I am shocked that her father rejected her as if it was her fault. I am shocked that a man can sexually abuse his young wife so much that she wants to put her head in a gas range and die. I am shocked that a young girl, swimming in the family pool, can be required to marry an old man, a voyeur, because he is lusting after her. I am shocked that an eight year old can be part of a harem and rented out to the harem owner's friends. I am shocked that males buy female children to have sex with them, pay a price, and return them to their parents as used and worthless. I am shocked that males purchase boys to use as sex slaves. How can this all be right?

Jesus has come to give freedom. "... you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32

Has Islam come to enslave (or kill those who will not submit) and rape those who convert?

I hear the Muslims here in the US say that they want peace, and have love for all; however, Muslims do not act that way in Muslim countries. Are those people here that are Muslims out of touch with the "real" Islam? Or are all these countries that have been Islamic for centuries out of touch?

From the articles I see, I can only hate Islam. But Muslims says it is a great religion, and one of love. How can it be? I see no love and only see Islam used to bully, and coerce and force others to submit to whatever the person who has the greatest power wants. This is not freedom, but it is a disgrace to God.

I see too many horrible things involved in the religion to ever believe that Islam means anything but hatred and using children and using women! I see Islam as only good for males who want to take advantage of others.

I feel sure that I will be attacked by Muslims for saying this (and attacked because their religion is a religion of attacks and putting to death those who are unbelievers), but why don't you try to prove to me that the countries that are mostly Muslim are kind, good to children, good to women and decent? Where do these countries make laws that really protect the children and women? They do not.

Is there anything good about Islam for women and children?

I have yet to see anything about Islam that I like. So far, no good.

 

[ProScribe]

Perhaps, an -Islamic Apologist- may come here and help you.

 

[Booko]

I see in Islam today a lot of falling away from what Muhammad taught.

Christianity has gone through periods like that too.

Should I blame Christ for the sack of Jerusalem during the Crusades?

 

[PassionFruit]

Christianity has gone through periods like that too.

It seems Christianity is still going through these periods.

 

[steve_bakr]

I read over and over and over again how Muslims are killing Christians, denying them rights, even denying them the right to move away.

"As reported in RLPB 145 http://rlprayerbulletin.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/rlpb-145-sud an-burma-christian-refugees.html , the UN estimates that some half-million displaced predominantly Christian African (non-Arab) Nuba will face famine conditions by March. Not content to decimate the Nuba by means of famine -- something the Arab-supremacist, Islamist regime in Khartoum achieved in the early 1990s -- nor to allow their escape into South Sudan, Khartoum appears to be preparing to completely annihilate the Nuba." The interior site no longer works. Sudan & Syria: millions of Christians facing death

Is there no religious freedom with Muslims? cobourgatheist.net It appears that Islamic countries are the worst offenders in allowing freedom of religion.

I had a great deal of disrespect for the fact that religions of the past disallowed people freedom of religion (such as times in the Crusades and others). Denying people religious freedom is not a product of today's world. And yet, Islam does it. Islam denies people all kinds of rights--but not so much males--just women and children are treated like dogs.

Is this why Muslims did 911--because we're Christians? "On 9/11, Al Qaeda did not act in the name of 19 people, or ten thousand or so followers. It acted in the name of Islam." Islam Did Attack Us on September 11 So can I believe that Muslims hate Christians? Do they hate me? I think I can guess that they do.

Do they all believe that we Christians should die if we do not convert? "...Muslim religion, you know, they have an objective to convert all infidels or kill them." Herman Cain: Many Muslims Want to âEUR~KillâEUR(TM) or âEUR~Convert all InfidelsâEUR(TM) | TheBlaze.com I think that killing someone is the ultimate hatred.

Why do Muslims not allow religious freedom? "Sheik Najih Ibrahim Ibn Abdulla summarizes the purpose of the Jizya. He says, quoting Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, that the Jizya is enacted:
"...to spare the blood (of the Zimmis), to be a symbol of humiliation of the infidels and as an insult and punishment to them, and as the Shafi`ites indicate, the Jizya is offered in exchange for residing in an Islamic country." Thus Ibn Qayyim adds, "Since the entire religion belongs to God, it aims at humiliating ungodliness and its followers, and insulting them. Imposing the Jizya on the followers of ungodliness and oppressing them is required by God's religion. The Qur'anic text hints at this meaning when it says: `until they give the tribute by force with humiliation.' (Qur'an 9:29).
Rights of Non-Muslims in an Islamic State

Does anyone believe that humiliation, insults and punishments create converts? I think it would create hatred.

Why are there Dancing Boys in Afghanistan where small boys are prostitutes and used for sex? How can Muslims think it is right to use a boy for sex? The Dancing Boys Of Afghanistan | FRONTLINE | PBS Sadly, some of the males who do this can't understand how anyone would even want a female!

Or a girl? "...then Ahmad and Abu 'Ubayd say that one a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated even without her consent, but that does not apply in the case of who is younger. Maalik, al-Shaafa'i and Abu Haneefah said: the marriage may be consummated when the girl is able for intercourse, which varies from one girl to another, so no age limit can be set. This is the correct view. There is nothing in the hadeeth of 'Aa'ishah to set an age limit, or to forbid that in the case of a girl who is able for it before the age of nine, or to allow it in the case of a girl who is not able for it and has reached the age of nine. Islam Question and Answer - On acting; and the ruling on marrying young girls

After reading these two sites, I can only say that Islam is the religion of child molesters! Islam is a religion of hatred of anyone who is not in power!

Why did Muhammad hate women?

On pages 86-87, Mustafa states: "The [wife-]beating must never be in exaggerated, blind anger, in order to avoid serious harm [to the woman]." He adds, "It is forbidden to beat her on the sensitive parts of her body, such as the face, breast, abdomen, and head. Instead, she should be beaten on the arms and legs," using a "rod that must not be stiff, but slim and lightweight so that no wounds, scars, or bruises are caused." Similarly, "[the blows] must not be hard." This article goes on to state that the head of the Islamic people in North America agrees that Islamic husbands can hit their wives. http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1091.htm

Why did Muhammad have sex with a 9 year old girl? Ayesha the child wife of the Prophet

Why does Islam allow FGM? Islam Watch - "Women Under Islam - Female Genital Mutilation" by Adrian Morgan

Islam considers a woman's inheritance to be half of a man's. Islam considers a woman's testimony to be half as good as a man's.

Islam hates me--a woman. That is all I can conclude.

I'm very troubled by Islam. I do not see it as any type of freedom. I see it is respecting males and totally disrespecting females an even children. I've read the Princess Diaries, and I am shocked at how wives are discarded in the desert without a headstone when they were faithful wives and then died. I am shocked that a girl who is raped is made to go through the birth and then stoned after she delivers the baby. I am shocked that her father rejected her as if it was her fault. I am shocked that a man can sexually abuse his young wife so much that she wants to put her head in a gas range and die. I am shocked that a young girl, swimming in the family pool, can be required to marry an old man, a voyeur, because he is lusting after her. I am shocked that an eight year old can be part of a harem and rented out to the harem owner's friends. I am shocked that males buy female children to have sex with them, pay a price, and return them to their parents as used and worthless. I am shocked that males purchase boys to use as sex slaves. How can this all be right?

Jesus has come to give freedom. "... you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32

Has Islam come to enslave (or kill those who will not submit) and rape those who convert?

I hear the Muslims here in the US say that they want peace, and have love for all; however, Muslims do not act that way in Muslim countries. Are those people here that are Muslims out of touch with the "real" Islam? Or are all these countries that have been Islamic for centuries out of touch?

From the articles I see, I can only hate Islam. But Muslims says it is a great religion, and one of love. How can it be? I see no love and only see Islam used to bully, and coerce and force others to submit to whatever the person who has the greatest power wants. This is not freedom, but it is a disgrace to God.

I see too many horrible things involved in the religion to ever believe that Islam means anything but hatred and using children and using women! I see Islam as only good for males who want to take advantage of others.

I feel sure that I will be attacked by Muslims for saying this (and attacked because their religion is a religion of attacks and putting to death those who are unbelievers), but why don't you try to prove to me that the countries that are mostly Muslim are kind, good to children, good to women and decent? Where do these countries make laws that really protect the children and women? They do not.

Is there anything good about Islam for women and children?

I have yet to see anything about Islam that I like. So far, no good.

I can't answer your wall of text succinctly, but I can tell you that the Qur'an states, "There shall be no compulsion in the matter of religion." 2.256 In general, conversion by the sword is a myth.

 

[steve_bakr]

I can't answer your wall of text succinctly, but I can tell you that the Qur'an states, "There shall be no compulsion in the matter of religion." 2.256 In general, conversion by the sword is a myth.

With regard to women and children, the Qur'an came along with divorce settlements where there were none in pre-Islamic Arabia, and it prohibited the common pre-Islamic practice of female infanticide. It also created the zakat system to provide for the marginalized poor and orphans.

 

[PassionFruit]

I also wanted to point out the issue of FGM. What many people seem to be unaware of is that it's practiced in African Christian communities as well. One example would the Coptic Christian community in Egypt. FGM is more of a cultural practice than a religious one. It's also practiced by animists. Having read (some of it) the Qu'ran I haven't encountered anything that justified "female circumcision."

 

[Booko]

It seems Christianity is still going through these periods.

Oh, I think not as bad as it has been at other times.

Although from the pov of Muslims living in countries where they're getting bombed by countries run by Christians, maybe they have a different view. I mean, what is the body count in the last decade anyway?

Or hey, maybe by invoking Godwin's Law we could kill this ridiculous thread sooner?

1Prophetess, should I blame Christians and Christ because the Nazis killed 6 *million* Jews?

Does the Holocaust tell me something I need to know about the Gospels and their worth?

Inquiring minds want to know...

As Jesus said, Judge not, lest ye be judged likewise.

If you want to make an attempt at a fair-minded criticism of what Muslims are up to these days, feel free.

 

[Booko]

With regard to women and children, the Qur'an came along with divorce settlements where there were none in pre-Islamic Arabia, and it prohibited the common pre-Islamic practice of female infanticide. It also created the zakat system to provide for the marginalized poor and orphans.

Also, Islam allowed women to inherit, while in Christian Europe they could not.

How long was it until Christian women in England, for example, were allowed to inherit?

Oh yeah, about mid-1800s or so.

Seems Islam beat Christianity out by a few centuries there. *shrug*

 

[Booko]

I also wanted to point out the issue of FGM. What many people seem to be unaware of is that it's practiced in African Christian communities as well. One example would the Coptic Christian community in Egypt. FGM is more of a cultural practice than a religious one. It's also practiced by animists. Having read (some of it) the Qu'ran I haven't encountered anything that justified "female circumcision."

No, the Qu'ran has no justification for FGM.

There are a number of cultural habits that get mistaken as having anything to do with what Muhammad taught, from FGM to so-called honor killings.

Those are not justified by anything in the Qu'ran.

On the other hand, I've heard Christians justify child abuse using a misunderstanding of a verse from the OT. Does that make Christians evil? Does it make the Bible wrong?

I don't think so. It makes some humans mistaken. *shrug*

I do think it means if I make some criticism about someone's actions, it requires a little work to be fair-minded and see if it's actually something their religion actually teaches.

1Prophetess, be glad you're only on this forum talking like this about another religion, because here you're protected from having your criticisms turned against you and your religion in a way just as uncharitable and unfair and vile as what you're doing.

I may not be willing to accuse Christ or the Gospels of saying disgusting things out of sheer respect for them, but believe me, there sure are other people out on other religion discussion areas of the Internet who wouldn't hesitate to turn your methods back on you by way of illustration.

Don't venture off CF anytime soon, for your own sake.

 

[steve_bakr]

I also wanted to point out the issue of FGM. What many people seem to be unaware of is that it's practiced in African Christian communities as well. One example would the Coptic Christian community in Egypt. FGM is more of a cultural practice than a religious one. It's also practiced by animists. Having read (some of it) the Qu'ran I haven't encountered anything that justified "female circumcision."

You are correct that female circumcision is not found in the Qur'an.

 

[PassionFruit]

Although from the pov of Muslims living in countries where they're getting bombed by countries run by Christians, maybe they have a different view. I mean, what is the body count in the last decade anyway?

Hey, Booko, you know those Muslims just hate Americans because we have soooooooo much freedom. It has nothing to do with the foreign policies towards Muslims countries. But that's getting into politics so I won't go there.

Sarcasm aside, it's interesting when threads about Islam are started, there's no doubt the issue of the oppression of women always comes up. What's interesting is I've never seen anyone point out that the majority of converts to Islam overwhelmingly are women. While a lot of these converts are out of convenience (marriage to a Muslim man) many convert because they feel it empowers them. There's reluctance to address that.

 

[SanFrank]

I thought Herman Cain's comments were straight on. Is he still in the race for presidency?

 

[chelsea89]

Islam protects women and children moreso than Christianity I would think ( biased perhaps) but women in Islam have rights. For instance your question about inheritance... Women get half because it I
S theirs to keep, they may have and do with it as they please, a man however has to care for his parents' finances, funeral, and make sure his siblings are taken care of. And although with the feminist movement it might seem unfair to take a woman's testimony as half a mans, it can be justified in a sense. The reason for it is that women are more emotional especially during pregnancy, menstruation, and postpartum periods. If you've ever been in a high stress situation such as witnessing a crime it's hard to take in especially if you're in anything but a fit mental state and although this may not apply to most or all women there are women who have severe emotional swings during these periods unto psychosis. It's protecting the accused. I mean just look at how many rape cases are being unraveled in wake of DNA evidence! Even with a positive eyewitness ID men are wrongly accused because of the woman's mental state after said attack. When it's.n OT a woman these errors go down considerably, look it up.
You may want to look up some things on Aisha. Yusuf Estes gives a pretty good explanation of the marriage and before Islam there was no age of consent and babies as young as 18 months were being married to men for inheritance. The precedence for the child marriage was that she was of age because of her menses and thus, all women to be married should at least be of childbearing age. This is not the first culture to do this. Mary herself was only around 12 when she was engaged and children are arranged in marriage together until the boy hits an age of maturity in many cultures, Islam acknowledged a woman's right to a divorce before Christianity also.
And I hope you're not looking to the Middle East as your Islamic source here because only 15% of Muslims live there and there are sooo many political factors to the problems there it's completely unfair to blame Islam for the corruption. I haven't heard much in the way of violence for Indonesia... The largest Muslim population on earth, nor is it a problem named in much of Asia, or throughout the West until 9-11. And Btw I don't hate you for being Christian because respect is a HUGE Quranic theme especially for Jews and Christians. Islam did not hijack two planes, Islam did not kill the 2300 people on 9-11, Islam did not declare war on the US... Individual Muslims did. They took innocent life, a grievous sin in Islam, they didnt ask the rest of us for permission, and had you heard of any Muslim atrocities before 9-11? No because historically it has coexisted peacefully with other nations and faiths.

I'd like to amend the last statement. I meant her personally not that Islam hasnt had violent periods before 9-11 per se.

 

[Rusticus]

There are so many aspects to this..., my time is limited at the moment, so here are just a few thoughts:

Attacks (like 9/11) are not because the USA is Christian (because it is not), it is for other reasons.
Believing Muslims are against secularism, decadence, etc, just the way believing Christians are. The USA is a secular state, with the most revered and high God being Mammon!!! (The same goes for all of the "Western World, I do not single out any country specificially.)
In addition a large part of the world (not just the muslim world) deeply resents the imperialist policies of the USA. I know that "imperialist" sounds like cold war communist terminology, but there you go, it's the best-fitting word I can find.

Islam's current militancy and resurgence also have a lot to do with the recent (last 2 generations) demise of colonialism.

As far as Islam's religious tolerance and support of freedom of religion is concerned: no, I do not believe that that's so (even if Moslems might say so otherwise):
If you live in their society, you either are a Muslim, or you are not welcome. And, at least as important: once you are a Muslim, you are not permitted to leave your faith. If you try to do so, you are either executed or locked up, depending on where you live in that part of the world. Also, in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (which, by the way receives mega-billions of military aid from the USA), a Christian Church or a Hindu Themple is only allowed to be built in a village, if not a single Muslim lives there. (how likely is that, one wonders...)

As far as circumcision (male and female, both of which are a form of mutilation - although female circumcision is much more so) are of semitic cultural origin and significance, evidenced by the fact that both Muslim and Jewish males need to be circumcised to satifsfy religious ceremonial demands. They were practiced long before the introduction of Islam.
The same goes for the place (or no-place) for women in society. That's not, I believe, Islamic as such, but cultural. (BTW you can find remnants of that in some branches of Christianity, and certainly in orthodox Judaism as well.)

As always, nothing is ever black or white, but shades of grey!

Sorry, my lunch-break is over, that's all I've got time for.

 

[Booko]

Hey, Booko, you know those Muslims just hate Americans because we have soooooooo much freedom. It has nothing to do with the foreign policies towards Muslims countries. But that's getting into politics so I won't go there.

Yeah, I never understood that line either. I found it easy enough to understand that if another country started lobbing bombs on my family ("collateral damage" indeed) I might be just a little peeved about that too.

It's not like there aren't Muslims persecuting Christians in parts of the world. Obviously that's happening. One example is when the Egyptian gov't used swine flu as a pretext for harassing Christians by killing all their pigs they use for livestock. Injustice isn't good whereever it comes from.

It's just that the Qu'ran doesn't condone that. Quite the opposite as anyone who can use a concordance and knows a few search terms could find out easily enough.

Sarcasm aside, it's interesting when threads about Islam are started, there's no doubt the issue of the oppression of women always comes up.

Well, there is oppression of women -- in some nations. I think you'd be hard pressed to show how Muslims are oppressing women in Bosnia though. Oh, there are Wahabis trying to proseltize there, and the Bosnia Muslims have basically told them to go back to Saudi Arabia and leave them the heck alone. But there's a list of majority Muslim nations I would not care to live in too, so the comments are not without foundation.

When the comments about oppression of women in some Muslim nations are made though, if it's done to somehow show that Islam is a false religion, I find that's rather short sighted historically. Um, Christianity wasn't known through all of its history for its fine treatment of women either, so if that's how we judge things, neither of them could be true.

What's interesting is I've never seen anyone point out that the majority of converts to Islam overwhelmingly are women. While a lot of these converts are out of convenience (marriage to a Muslim man) many convert because they feel it empowers them. There's reluctance to address that.

Yes, I'm not able to address it myself, though I know it's true there are many women converts to Islam (there are plenty in Atlanta, for certain).

I'm sure I have a blind spot in understanding why women might choose Islam, probably because I can think of a better alternative.

Also, it bears mentioning that Islam is not monolithic. It too has it's oppressive fundamentalist wing and a center moderate sort and some lol screaming liberal areas as well.

I guess it's easier for detractors to focus only on the extreme and pretend it's the norm.

 

[Booko]

The USA is a secular state, with the most revered and high God being Mammon!!! (The same goes for all of the "Western World, I do not single out any country specificially.)

QFT.

In addition a large part of the world (not just the muslim world) deeply resents the imperialist policies of the USA. I know that "imperialist" sounds like cold war communist terminology, but there you go, it's the best-fitting word I can find.

Yeah, I can't say I can think of a better term at the moment.

Islam's current militancy and resurgence also have a lot to do with the recent (last 2 generations) demise of colonialism.

Also it's convenient for autocratic rulers in some of those nations to distract their populations by invoking fear and hatred of "the other" which in this case would be the Western nations. If you aim your populaces' anger at someone else, they are less likely to revolt.

As far as Islam's religious tolerance and support of freedom of religion is concerned: no, I do not believe that that's so (even if Moslems might say so otherwise):

It was so at one time in history that Islam practiced religious tolerance and freedom of religion. Now that's honoured more in the breach than th' observance.

If you live in their society, you either are a Muslim, or you are not welcome. And, at least as important: once you are a Muslim, you are not permitted to leave your faith. If you try to do so, you are either executed or locked up, depending on where you live in that part of the world.

Again, this depends on where one is standing. It is not at all universal that leaving the faith gets you in so much trouble that you get locked up or executed.

I would also argue that I don't see how that squares with "Let there be no compulsion in religion" which is what the Qu'ran says. So this may be more a matter of corruption in religion.

Again, looking at history, it's not like Christianity hasn't had some times of similar difficulties. The Reformation was particularly bloody. Fortunately, Christianity got through that horrible period. Hopefully the parts of Islam that have lost their way will get over it as well.

To compare freedom for other religions, consider the experience of Jews in Spain before and after the Reconquista.

Also, in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (which, by the way receives mega-billions of military aid from the USA), a Christian Church or a Hindu Themple is only allowed to be built in a village, if not a single Muslim lives there. (how likely is that, one wonders...)

This also is a practice that flies in the face of what the Qu'ran says, not to mention the example Muhammad gave in his lifetime. I can give specifics if anyone wants.

As far as circumcision (male and female, both of which are a form of mutilation - although female circumcision is much more so) are of semitic cultural origin and significance, evidenced by the fact that both Muslim and Jewish males need to be circumcised to satifsfy religious ceremonial demands. They were practiced long before the introduction of Islam.
The same goes for the place (or no-place) for women in society. That's not, I believe, Islamic as such, but cultural. (BTW you can find remnants of that in some branches of Christianity, and certainly in orthodox Judaism as well.)

Male circumcision has some limited health benefit in areas like tropical jungles and deserts. No surprise a couple of religions that ranged in desert and near desert areas might have such a custom, while Christianity, which ranged in more temperate areas, didn't.

There is no health benefit for FGM.

As always, nothing is ever black or white, but shades of grey!

Usually so!

Sorry, my lunch-break is over, that's all I've got time for.

I'm glad you had some time to spend here!

 

[SanFrank]

Sarcasm aside, it's interesting when threads about Islam are started, there's no doubt the issue of the oppression of women always comes up. What's interesting is I've never seen anyone point out that the majority of converts to Islam overwhelmingly are women. While a lot of these converts are out of convenience (marriage to a Muslim man) many convert because they feel it empowers them. There's reluctance to address that.

These conversions are not miraculous by any standards but simply the work of intimidation.

I remember one woman saying she was simply forced into it or risk losing her new husband.

I remember another woman, who has since left islam and remarried to a christian, say she was intimidated to follow. Her muslim ex was too abusive and she made it sound as though she ran away.

 

[PassionFruit]

Yes, I'm not able to address it myself, though I know it's true there are many women converts to Islam (there are plenty in Atlanta, for certain).

I'm sure I have a blind spot in understanding why women might choose Islam, probably because I can think of a better alternative.

This might derail the thread but I wanted to address it. I remember reading a book titled Engaged Surrender: African American Women & Islam which sought to seek out reasons why women this specific community African American women would convert to Islam. A lot of these women came from less than ideal environments, so I guess they saw Islam as a way to escape. A few of these women came from dysfunctional homes and I guess for them Islam was a way for them to build stable families. Of course you could make the argument that "there's no need to convert to a religion to do that" but I would think it was also it was more than that.

Also, it bears mentioning that Islam is not monolithic. It too has it's oppressive fundamentalist wing and a center moderate sort and some lol screaming liberal areas as well.

I have encountered all three.

 

[PassionFruit]

These conversions are not miraculous by any standards but simply the work of intimidation.

I remember one woman saying she was simply forced into it or risk losing her new husband.

Not all conversions are by force. A lot of women actually convert to Islam by their own free will and away from Christianity, and find it far more empowering than Christianity. You may not want to believe it, but it's true.