Is Universal Basic Income the answer?

[gaara4158]

No one is trying to remove it.

Oh good, I had thought you were advocating for limits to who can get it and for how long. Different poster I guess.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Okay and just how much VAT tax would we need on what we buy to pay for this UBI?

The intention appears to be that the VAT tax rate would be effectively negative.

It is intended for UBI to be funded from a portion of the money saved by automation. The remainder of the money saved would go to the company as profit and for further automation.

As automation progresses, the UBI fund could soon exceed the amount of money going into the UBI, and the remaining money will go to the cost of the Afghan and Iraq wars, for example.

 

[cow451]

Apparently many people "don't want to work" for various reasons. From the US Chamber of Commerce.

• Half (49%) of Americans who became unemployed during the pandemic say they are not actively or not very actively looking for work; less than a third (32%) report that they are strongly active in their job search.
• Six in 10 respondents (61%) say they are in no hurry to return to work. Three in 10 (30%) say they do not expect to return to work this year, with nearly half of those (13% of the total) saying they never plan to return to work.
• One in eight (13%) who became unemployed during the pandemic and remain unemployed have turned down at least one job offer in the past year.
• One in six not actively seeking work (16%) say the amount of money they are receiving from unemployment benefits and government programs makes it “not worth looking” for work.
• Even more–28 percent of survey respondents–agree that “There are a lot of people who are not looking for work because they can do almost or just as well collecting unemployment benefits.”

Citing a study from June…..

 

[cow451]

Let's see here. It's best for kids with a married mother and father and an intact home. It's better for kids when mom stays home during their younger years and dad works to provide for the family. Thats best.

HOWEVER, circumstances happen and sometimes mom can't stay home. Mom is single and so can't stay home. Under those circumstances mom needs to work. It's not ideal but it's necessary. And because we are compassionate people we understand in those circumstances maybe mom needs some help. What mom doesn't need is for everyone to foot all her and her children's money needs so she can stay home for years. No she needs to go to work, or get and education so she can work and provide for her kids. It's not everyone else's responsibility to take care of everything while mom sits home.

If Mom staying at home is best, why make them go to work? That’s inconsistent.

 

[rjs330]

I don't see how that changes your claim that taking money from those who earned it and giving it to those who have not is immoral.

I'm merely clarifying. That's it. I have NEVER made the claim that we should NEVER help anyone under any circumstances. Hope this clears things up. Taking money from someone to give it to someone else under universal income is immoral because you are taking from producers and giving it to non-producers. This applies to everyone whether they need it or not forever.

Welfare, social security for disabilities, unemployment etc. is meant for for those who need a TEMPORARY hand up for things beyond their control, but once you are able bodied, go to work. Get off the dole. If you can't cause you are disabled then that's different. Taking care of those in REAL need is not immoral. Paying out to those who are not is immoral.

 

[rjs330]

Citing a study from June…..

It goes to show the mindset of a lot of people. When given an opportunity they will not work if they don't have to.

 

[rjs330]

If Mom staying at home is best, why make them go to work? That’s inconsistent.

Life isn't fair is it. Why should I pay for someone to stay home for years? I earned my money, why should I have to give it to someone who is fully capable? That's not compassion, that's enabling. And we all know enabling does not help people. Go to school, go to trade school, get a job. Do something besides nothing to earn your way.

It's immoral to force others to pay for your living while you stay home.

 

[rjs330]

The intention appears to be that the VAT tax rate would be effectively negative.

It is intended for UBI to be funded from a portion of the money saved by automation. The remainder of the money saved would go to the company as profit and for further automation.

As automation progresses, the UBI fund could soon exceed the amount of money going into the UBI, and the remaining money will go to the cost of the Afghan and Iraq wars, for example.

That still doesn't answer my question.

 

[gaara4158]

Life isn't fair is it. Why should I pay for someone to stay home for years? I earned my money, why should I have to give it to someone who is fully capable? That's not compassion, that's enabling. And we all know enabling does not help people. Go to school, go to trade school, get a job. Do something besides nothing to earn your way.

It's immoral to force others to pay for your living while you stay home.

You answered your own question: because it’s best. You want to live in the greatest country in the world? Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[cow451]

I'm merely clarifying. That's it. I have NEVER made the claim that we should NEVER help anyone under any circumstances. Hope this clears things up. Taking money from someone to give it to someone else under universal income is immoral because you are taking from producers and giving it to non-producers. This applies to everyone whether they need it or not forever.

Welfare, social security for disabilities, unemployment etc. is meant for for those who need a TEMPORARY hand up for things beyond their control, but once you are able bodied, go to work. Get off the dole. If you can't cause you are disabled then that's different. Taking care of those in REAL need is not immoral. Paying out to those who are not is immoral.

Few people on SSDI recover to be “able-bodied”.

 

[cow451]

It goes to show the mindset of a lot of people. When given an opportunity they will not work if they don't have to.

Most people can do basic math. But most people understand that these bennies were/are temporary.

 

[cow451]

Life isn't fair is it. Why should I pay for someone to stay home for years? I earned my money, why should I have to give it to someone who is fully capable? That's not compassion, that's enabling. And we all know enabling does not help people. Go to school, go to trade school, get a job. Do something besides nothing to earn your way.

It's immoral to force others to pay for your living while you stay home.

Being a Mother to young children isn’t work? That’s not something I’d risk saying to any Mother of young children. But you can live dangerously if you want.

 

[rjs330]

Few people on SSDI recover to be “able-bodied”.

Right then they stay on dole. That's what I said.

 

[Pommer]

Right then they stay on dole. That's what I said.

It’s very nice that “the dole” includes Medicare to boot!

 

[rjs330]

It’s very nice that “the dole” includes Medicare to boot!

Whatever is needed. As a compassionate society I have no problem with helping the helpless. In fact if we paid out less to those who could help themselves we might be able to do more for the helpless.

 

[rjs330]

Being a Mother to young children isn’t work? That’s not something I’d risk saying to any Mother of young children. But you can live dangerously if you want.

You know what I mean. My wife was a stay at home mom. And I have had single moms in my family. A good mom works hard at home with the kids. My wife was a great mom and worked very hard to provide a good home for the kids and took great care of them.

I also have known single moms who didn't work at taking care of the kids. They were a mess, house was filthy, the kids were filthy and often neglected, ignored among other things. While mom sat on the couch all day and didn't lift a finger hardly. All the while collecting welfare checks. Some were addicted to cigarettes spending a lot of money on that. Or addicted to o drugs or did drugs like marijuana. I have known a LOT of single moms just like that.

I have known single moms who did take care of their kids and their home.

But working at home is not an excuse to live off of other people. Get a job, or go to school so you can support your family. Being home even if you are doing well taking care of your kids does not authorize you to live off of others.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Big part of the answer. Universal health care is the biggest part of the answer, though.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You know what I mean. My wife was a stay at home mom. And I have had single moms in my family. A good mom works hard at home with the kids. My wife was a great mom and worked very hard to provide a good home for the kids and took great care of them.

I also have known single moms who didn't work at taking care of the kids. They were a mess, house was filthy, the kids were filthy and often neglected, ignored among other things. While mom sat on the couch all day and didn't lift a finger hardly. All the while collecting welfare checks. Some were addicted to cigarettes spending a lot of money on that. Or addicted to o drugs or did drugs like marijuana. I have known a LOT of single moms just like that.

I have known single moms who did take care of their kids and their home.

But working at home is not an excuse to live off of other people. Get a job, or go to school so you can support your family. Being home even if you are doing well taking care of your kids does not authorize you to live off of others.

How did you manage as a single mom? Or were you never a single mom and therefore don't know first-hand what it's like to be one?

 

[John Mullally]

There have been centuries of accelerating automation that started slowly with the Printing press. People & jobs have continually adapted. Its premature to be talking about the need for UBI. Having a large number of able bodied, able minded, idle people is bad for society, so why encourage it?

 

[cow451]

Right then they stay on dole. That's what I said.

You said (bolding mine):
"Welfare, social security for disabilities, unemployment etc. is meant for for those who need a TEMPORARY hand up for things beyond their control, but once you are able bodied, go to work."