Is Universal Basic Income the answer?

[MorkandMindy]

Intent
UBI transfers money saved by automation to production workers replaced by automation.

Source
It is a tax levied on production inside the country and manufactured goods imported into the country, so it can not be avoided by automating outside the country.

Beneficiaries
It is currently proposed as 1,000 dollars per month to every citizen or resident in the US irrespective of other income or circumstances.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

No, it isn't because it's a disincentive to work. Why work if the government will provide all of one's essentials anyway?

 

[Saucy]

Many would say the current inflation in prices were, at least in part, due to the stimulus checks. Even Biden recently admitted so. When you start giving everyone money, prices will inevitably go up.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Some disincentives here in the US to employment include:
1. Disability Benefits - if you start working you lose this benefit and it can take a long time to get it back
2. Unemployment and various low-income benefits - these often have a cliff, earn one dollar too much, and you lose the entire benefit and can end up many thousands of dollars poorer.

Unlike the recent unemployment scheme, you don't have to quit your job to get UBI; it doesn't contain a disincentive to work.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Many would say the current inflation in prices were, at least in part, due to the stimulus checks. Even Biden recently admitted so. When you start giving everyone money, prices will inevitably go up.

That sounds bad until we consider the alternative - giving a few people a lot of money.

When the money is evenly distributed, it allows the economy to grow in a way I consider benefits more people, instead of all the growth going to investments in Asia.

+++++
Addendum:

I was thinking too far into the future - to a Star Trek economy - my bad.

UBI is focused on an immediate problem, that we have entered the fourth stage of the Industrial Revolution and that automation is arriving faster than people can retrain. The suggestion that everyone who lost jobs when a car factory automated should learn to code will not keep them alive in the years it takes to become a good programmer, nor supply enough jobs even then.

I hope that is a good balance between the criticisms of the left and those of the right.

UBI transfers some of the money saved by automation to the people replaced by automation. However, it isn't feasible to transfer the money to specific people due to the knock-on effects of automation.

At the destination end, the money is not intended to say double everyone's income, because that would cause price inflation, only to add the same amount to each income which would be a large proportion on to a small income but a small percentage on to a large income. Just enough to be a big help to those in need.

 

[Saucy]

That sounds bad until we consider the alternative - giving a few people a lot of money.

Who do we give money to besides the poor, disabled, and other countries?

 

[d taylor]

*​

This country is in a mess, nothing is going to help. The only question is, really how much longer can this country last.

 

[gaara4158]

It’s a start. If the ideal state of affairs is one in which all labor is automated and the only remaining professions are voluntary, thus allowing people to pursue happiness free from economic constraints, the first step is to provide some relief to those whose jobs are becoming automated presently. Tying well-being to capital is a fundamental mistake, but baby steps are better than no steps.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Who do we give money to besides the poor, disabled, and other countries?

The rich, that's why they're rich.

The US healthcare system is extremely expensive, even more expensive than our military system. Almost half of the healthcare expense is due to health insurance. Health insurance companies run up huge expenses through administration costs and profits,

... to the point where health insurance companies are among the most profitable companies in the world.

That's where a lot of government money goes.

And to 'defense' contractors, and to 'too-big-to-fail' institutions.

Meanwhile, all other countries save a fortune by having single-payer healthcare.

 

[gaara4158]

Who do we give money to besides the poor, disabled, and other countries?

Hardly any of our money goes to those places. https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spending/categories/

 

[MorkandMindy]

It’s a start. If the ideal state of affairs is one in which all labor is automated and the only remaining professions are voluntary, thus allowing people to pursue happiness free from economic constraints, the first step is to provide some relief to those whose jobs are becoming automated presently. Tying well-being to capital is a fundamental mistake, but baby steps are better than no steps.

In late 2021 the cost of automating a typical single-person manual workstation is now only 55k dollars. And the robot works about 8,760 hours a year, routinely skipping meals and bathroom breaks.

People who don't look ahead and form a plan will walk straight into a situation they didn't choose or plan for out. You appear to be one of very few people who are thinking about the future.

 

[gaara4158]

In late 2021 the cost of automating a typical single-person manual workstation is now only 55k dollars. And the robot works about 8,760 hours a year, routinely skipping meals and bathroom breaks.

People who don't look ahead and form a plan will walk straight into a situation they didn't choose or plan for out. You appear to be one of very few people who are thinking about the future.

It comes from a selfish place, being someone who’s witnessing jobs in my own workplace being automated in real-time, but ultimately the robots will take over more than just my industry. If we’re not prepared to rethink how we distribute the wealth, it’s going to run dry very quickly for a devastatingly high percentage of people in the coming decades.

 

[jacks]

Intent
UBI transfers money saved by automation to production workers replaced by automation.

It's an interesting idea, however, there are more jobs than ever before, though maybe not in production. The current problem seems to be getting people to work, not lack of jobs.

 

[gaara4158]

It's an interesting idea, however, there are more jobs than ever before, though maybe not in production. The current problem seems to be getting people to work, not lack of jobs.

How so? Unemployment is at 4.2% and dropping, on par with 2019 figures.

 

[Tanj]

No, it isn't because it's a disincentive to work. Why work if the government will provide all of one's essentials anyway?

Is that what you would do?

 

[Basil the Great]

Intent
UBI transfers money saved by automation to production workers replaced by automation.

Source
It is a tax levied on production inside the country and manufactured goods imported into the country, so it can not be avoided by automating outside the country.

Beneficiaries
It is currently proposed as 1,000 dollars per month to every citizen or resident in the US irrespective of other income or circumstances.

It is an interesting concept, but requires considerable study and thought.

 

[jacks]

How so? Unemployment is at 4.2% and dropping, on par with 2019 figures.

As a historical rate 4.2% is very low. But mostly it is evident by all the Help Wanted signs. Also in the news are many stories of employers unable to find help. I remember how working for the Post Office or being a Firefighter were coveted jobs with hardly any openings. Now you walk into the Post Office and there is big help wanted signs, like most every place in my part of the country. (Pacific Northwest) Though maybe it is different in other places?

 

[MorkandMindy]

It comes from a selfish place, being someone who’s witnessing jobs in my own workplace being automated in real-time, but ultimately the robots will take over more than just my industry. If we’re not prepared to rethink how we distribute the wealth, it’s going to run dry very quickly for a devastatingly high percentage of people in the coming decades.

Where I was working employment declined 30% in just over 3 years.

And contrary to the belief that only manual work will be automated, there are off-the-shelf shrink-wrapped software packages to automate the entire accounting functions of small companies.

 

[gaara4158]

As a historical rate 4.2% is very low. But mostly it is evident by all the Help Wanted signs. Also in the news are many stories of employers unable to find help. I remember how working for the Post Office or being a Firefighter were coveted jobs with hardly any openings. Now you walk into the Post Office and there is big help wanted signs, like most every place in my part of the country. (Pacific Northwest) Though maybe it is different in other places?

Sounds like the market favors the workers at the moment such that entry-level retail employers aren’t able to compete. That’s not people refusing to work, that’s employers refusing to pay.

 

[jacks]

That’s not people refusing to work, that’s employers refusing to pay.

Again, it might depend on where you are at. Here the minimum wage is $13.69 per hour, though everyone is advertising at least $15 per hour. That's really not a bad wage for unskilled work.