Is there a break in Daniel's 70 weeks? (Daniel 9:26)

[ebedmelech]

YLT
Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and
　
to anoint the holy of holies.
　
DBY
Seventy weeks are apportioned out upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make expiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages, and to seal the vision and prophet, and
　
to anoint the holy of holies.
　
NASB
"Seventy *weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to *finish the transgression, to *make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and *prophecy and
　
to anoint the most holy place.
　
RSV
"Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and
　
to anoint a most holy place.
　
The idea that a Temple is "not mentioned" in the 70 weeks is nothing but a load of
PRET HOGWASH

No. What it is is your ignorance of which Holy Place they speak of. You have the most holy place in the Jewish temple...which we know became obsolete when the veil was ripped in half upon Christ death.

So what happened? If you read Hebrews 9:11-14 you find WHAT holy place was anointed...which is in heaven:
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Are you picking up on where that "holy place" was now?

 

[ebedmelech]

Originally Posted by JLB777

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

Then the transgression will be finished.
​

Every eye seeing Him when He returns has nothing to do with Galatians 4, that says Jerusalem above is our mother.

Total misapplication of context.

Zechariah 12:10 is referring to the inhabitants of the earthly city of Jerusalem.

That is what the 70 weeks pertains to; your people and your holy city...


I don't believe in pre-trib Rapture.

your presumption is very evident in what you teach.

Pre-trib Rapture is a false doctrine.

You miss the basic elements of this prophecy starting with Cyrus, and your presumption runs wild all through the whole time frame.

Even the most basic elements of the prophecy you have failed to grasp.

• Jesus was cut off AFTER the 69th week, yet before the 70th week begins.

• Jesus was cut off outside the city.

• Jesus sacrifice includes Gentiles.

Jesus was not crucified within the time-frame of the 70 weeks!


You refuse to see the gap between the 7th week and the 62 weeks.

You have failed to see who started the prophetic clock.

You have failed to realize what Matthew 1:17 so clearly teaches.

Instead you use secular dates that are not shown in scripture to "come up with" your own understanding.

You can lean on your own understanding all you want, but as I have said, it has been weighed and found wanting.


JLB

I know you're frustrated JLB...so all that's left is to attack. It's ok with me if you stick with what you think.


But let's show what you REFUSE to see.

Let's break down Daniel 9:24:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,

*to finish the transgression, - Jesus did that...He said on the cross "it is finished

*to make an end of sin, - Jesus did that! Hebrews 9:26:
Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

*to make atonement for iniquity, - Christ did that as Hebrews 9:11 says
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;

*to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Christ did this as we know our righteousness is in Christ.

*to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. - Christ did this When he rose from the dead and entered heaven. Hebrews 9:12
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Now...I won't go further...because I have provided scripture that Christ fulfills the 70 weeks.

Prove those wrong.

 

[JLB777]

Read it again it says "the transgression" (not plural). That was the crucifixion which is the only act that does what all of what Daniel 9:24 says.

Spoken like a true "Left Behinder"...but try as you might you can't find a temple in spoken of except Herod's Temple in the NT. All other references to a temple are the church or the temple in heaven of Revelation.

No. Do you ever read Hebrews?
Hebrews 9:24-26:
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.


That's not at all what this passage is saying at all. First you have to realize who Jerusalem is. Paul tells us that in Galatians 4:26:
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

Galatians 4:21-31 sets that record straight.

Not when you read the scriptures properly. The 70th week has been over. Peter asked Jesus how often should we forgive our brother?...what was Jesus answer? He said "seventy times seven" which is 490. Now why do you think Jesus said that?

Because He KNEW what He had come to do...He came to do what Hebrews 9:24-26 says he did. Which I said above.

What's "weighed and found wanting" is your "Left Behind theology" loaded with dispensationalism.

Why did Jesus say "It is finished"? He knew he had accomplished Daniel 9:24.

Why does Hebrews 1:3 say?:
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
This is because Jesus did what Daniel 9:24 says...which ended the 70th week.

No. To take the view you're taking you would be disregarding Daniel 9:24, which introduces what happens in the 70 weeks.

*The Jews "finish the transgression" by the crucifixion of Christ.

It is the death of Christ that does the rest...which is:

*to make an end of sin,

*to make atonement for iniquity,

*to bring in everlasting righteousness, (our righteousness is in Christ)

*to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

No.

The AOD is an act...not a person. The phrase is relevant to the Jewish mind of that day. This was a previous act committed by Antiochus Epiphanes, when he slaughtered a pig on the alter as well as erected a statue of Jupiter in the temple. With this fresh in the mind of the disciples, Christ gives this as a sign of WHEN TO FLEE Jerusalem.

It's made clearer by Luke who says it this way in Luke 21:24:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

The AOD is accomplished when Romans enter the temple. They are Gentiles, and only the Levitical priesthood could enter the temple. They defiled the temple at that point, just as Antiochus Epiphanes did.

This event is relevant to the destruction of the temple. Which I don't see to be relevant to anything stated in Daniel 9:24 relevant to the 70 weeks.

Again...Daniel 9:24 sets the precedent for what is accomplished in the 70 weeks...which is the crucifixion.

The phrase on "the wing of abominations" (note the plural), refers to every sacrifice the Jews make after Christ to atone for sin.

That's what I see there.

Jesus was "cut off" after the 69th week.

The city and sanctuary was destroyed after the 69th week.

Both of these events are NOT INCLUDED in the 70 weeks time frame, as they both happened after the 69 weeks, yet the 70th week does not start until sometime after the year 70 AD, as the prophecy teaches.

This is the first and primary thing that the reader must understand, as Jesus said.

Jesus was "cut off" outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Jesus' sacrifice included Gentiles.

These three things the reader will understand when they read Daniel 9:24-27.

All of the things that are listed in verse 24:

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city,

To finish the transgression:

The transgression is reject Jesus Christ and the price he paid on the cross.
The Jews still reject Him.


To make an end of sins: The Jews are still sinning.

To make reconciliation for iniquity: The iniquity can only be stopped by the blood of the Messiah. [Isaiah 53]

To bring in everlasting righteousness;

Everlasting righteousness will be realized when Jesus returns, all the wicked are cast in to everlasting fire and we have an immortal sinless body that will never die, as they will shine like the sun.

Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:43


To seal up vision and prophecy:

The seventieth week will see the fulfillment od Daniel 9:27, Whereby the prince who is to come will make a covenant for 7 years, then in the middle of the seven years he will put and end to sacrifice and offering. This means there will be another Temple built, just as Paul teaches. There are other prophecies that have been fulfilled since the 69th week as well.

And to anoint the Most Holy;

Jesus will be anointed as King over the whole world in that He comes to sit on His throne, and rule and reign here on Earth.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-32


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Jesus was "cut off" after the 69th week.

The city and sanctuary was destroyed after the 69th week.

Both of these events are NOT INCLUDED in the 70 weeks time frame, as they both happened after the 69 weeks, yet the 70th week does not start until sometime after the year 70 AD, as the prophecy teaches.

This is the first and primary thing that the reader must understand, as Jesus said.

Jesus was "cut off" outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Jesus' sacrifice included Gentiles.

These three things the reader will understand when they read Daniel 9:24-27.

All of the things that are listed in verse 24:

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city,

To finish the transgression:

The transgression is reject Jesus Christ and the price he paid on the cross.
The Jews still reject Him.


To make an end of sins: The Jews are still sinning.

To make reconciliation for iniquity: The iniquity can only be stopped by the blood of the Messiah. [Isaiah 53]

To bring in everlasting righteousness;

Everlasting righteousness will be realized when Jesus returns, all the wicked are cast in to everlasting fire and we have an immortal sinless body that will never die, as they will shine like the sun.

Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:43


To seal up vision and prophecy:

The seventieth week will see the fulfillment od Daniel 9:27, Whereby the prince who is to come will make a covenant for 7 years, then in the middle of the seven years he will put and end to sacrifice and offering. This means there will be another Temple built, just as Paul teaches. There are other prophecies that have been fulfilled since the 69th week as well.

And to anoint the Most Holy;

Jesus will be anointed as King over the whole world in that He comes to sit on His throne, and rule and reign here on Earth.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-32


JLB

You did exactly as I thought you'd do. You didn't deal with one scriptural challenge I supported with scripture...you went right to the "dispensational evasion tactic"...which is to repeat what you think and deal with nothing.

The verses I supplied concur with the passage. Hebrews definitely is the book to read when it comes to Christ fulfilling of the OT.

I think we can let it go right here.

 

[JLB777]

You did exactly as I thought you'd do. You didn't deal with one scriptural challenge I supported with scripture...you went right to the "dispensational evasion tactic"...which is to repeat what you think and deal with nothing.

The verses I supplied concur with the passage. Hebrews definitely is the book to read when it comes to Christ fulfilling of the OT.

I think we can let it go right here.

You have never dealt with any scripture I have presented to you.

You have ignored the truth of Isaiah that says Cyrus was appointed By God Himself to restore the both the city of Jerusalem and the temple.

You ignore the most elementary truth of Daniel 9:24 that I have presented.

which states -

This is the first and primary thing that the reader must understand, as Jesus said.

Jesus was cut off after the 69th week, yet not during the 70th week.

Jesus was "cut off" outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Jesus' sacrifice included Gentiles.

These three things the reader will understand when they read Daniel 9:24-27.


You try to build your theory of what hasn't happened within the 70 weeks time frame.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

You have never dealt with any scripture I have presented to you.

You have ignored the truth of Isaiah that says Cyrus was appointed By God Himself to restore the both the city of Jerusalem and the temple.

You ignore the most elementary truth of Daniel 9:24 that I have presented.

which states -

This is the first and primary thing that the reader must understand, as Jesus said.

Jesus was cut off after the 69th week, yet not during the 70th week.

Jesus was "cut off" outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Jesus' sacrifice included Gentiles.

These three things the reader will understand when they read Daniel 9:24-27.


You try to build your theory of what hasn't happened within the 70 weeks time frame.


JLB

I dealt with all of your points...and you're the reader that doesn't understand.

Try as you might...there is no gap in the 70 weeks Daniel 9:24 says so.

Jesus anointing at His baptism starts the 70th week.

Jesus confirmed the covenant the middle of the week.

Jesus brought in everlasting righteousness.

When it comes to Cyrus...I denied nothing...I said he started it. Aratxerxes gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem

Rather than keep repeating the same thing...suffice it to say we will certainly find out.

 

[JLB777]

I dealt with all of your points...and you're the reader that doesn't understand.

Try as you might...there is no gap in the 70 weeks Daniel 9:24 says so.

Jesus anointing at His baptism starts the 70th week.

Jesus confirmed the covenant the middle of the week.

Jesus brought in everlasting righteousness.

When it comes to Cyrus...I denied nothing...I said he started it. Aratxerxes gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem

Rather than keep repeating the same thing...suffice it to say we will certainly find out.

I have shown you from the scriptures that Cyrus began the restoration of both the city and Temple.

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd , and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built ; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid . Isaiah 44:28

and again -

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts. Isaiah 45:13


26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Messiah was cut off - 33 AD

and

the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

Both of these events take place after the 69th week.

Both of these events can not "fit" into the 70th week.

Both of these events cover a time span of 37 years.

37 years does not fit into the 70th week.


CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS!!!


37 years of time has occurred after the 69th week and yet the 70th week is not mentioned until verse 27.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

I have shown you from the scriptures that Cyrus began the restoration of both the city and Temple.

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd , and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built ; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid . Isaiah 44:28

and again -

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts. Isaiah 45:13


26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Messiah was cut off - 33 AD

and

the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

Both of these events take place after the 69th week.

Both of these events can not "fit" into the 70th week.

Both of these events cover a time span of 37 years.

37 years does not fit into the 70th week.


CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS!!!


37 years of time has occurred after the 69th week and yet the 70th week is not mentioned until verse 27.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


JLB

You have shown what you have been taught...that means nothing! Does the scripture bear that out?

*Peter explains to Cornelius and his family when Jesus was anointed in Acts 10:38:
38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

When did that happen? Let's take Matthew 3:16, 17:
16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

There's Jesus anointed by God right there!!!

*Jesus tells us He's fulfilling the forgiveness of sins as he answers Peters question of "How many times shall I forgive my brother?...in Matthew 18:21, 22:
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

What's 70 x 7? That's right...490!!! Jesus is telling you He will fulfill the seventy years...but because you trust in dispensational "Left Behind" rapture theology...you can't see it!!!!

*Jesus says on the cross that "the transgression" of Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled when He says in John 19:30:
30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished! And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”

You can't see it though...not with what you've been taught.

*Jesus confirms the covenant in the middle of the week as he has communion with His disciples in Matthew 26:27, 28:
27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;
28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

How long did Jesus minister to Israel...3.5 years!!! The middle of the week!!!

Now...what's the difference in what you put forth, and what I put forth? The simple fact that what I put forth agrees with Daniel 9:24-27 COMPLETELY. What you put forth is contrived! None of it fits Daniel 9:24-27!!!

Especially your "contrived gap" in the seventy weeks. It's just not there! Neither is your "rebuilt temple"...and neither is your antichrist!!!

All of that is typical "dispensational eschatology" and "Left Behind" fiction that has so many believers thinking they'll be raptured from trouble...yet Jesus clearly tells us this in John 16:33:
33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

Paul repeats that tribulation comes with salvation and we overcome by the Holy Spirit in Romans 5:1-4
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

So don't be disappointed...because you and all those who think there's a rapture...ARE GOING NO WHERE!!!

The seventy weeks are over!!!

 

[JLB777]

You have shown what you have been taught...that means nothing! Does the scripture bear that out?

*Peter explains to Cornelius and his family when Jesus was anointed in Acts 10:38:
38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

When did that happen? Let's take Matthew 3:16, 17:
16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

There's Jesus anointed by God right there!!!

*Jesus tells us He's fulfilling the forgiveness of sins as he answers Peters question of "How many times shall I forgive my brother?...in Matthew 18:21, 22:
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

What's 70 x 7? That's right...490!!! Jesus is telling you He will fulfill the seventy years...but because you trust in dispensational "Left Behind" rapture theology...you can't see it!!!!

*Jesus says on the cross that "the transgression" of Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled when He says in John 19:30:
30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished! And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”

You can't see it though...not with what you've been taught.

*Jesus confirms the covenant in the middle of the week as he has communion with His disciples in Matthew 26:27, 28:
27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;
28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

How long did Jesus minister to Israel...3.5 years!!! The middle of the week!!!

Now...what's the difference in what you put forth, and what I put forth? The simple fact that what I put forth agrees with Daniel 9:24-27 COMPLETELY. What you put forth is contrived! None of it fits Daniel 9:24-27!!!

Especially your "contrived gap" in the seventy weeks. It's just not there! Neither is your "rebuilt temple"...and neither is your antichrist!!!

All of that is typical "dispensational eschatology" and "Left Behind" fiction that has so many believers thinking they'll be raptured from trouble...yet Jesus clearly tells us this in John 16:33:
33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

Paul repeats that tribulation comes with salvation and we overcome by the Holy Spirit in Romans 5:1-4
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

So don't be disappointed...because you and all those who think there's a rapture...ARE GOING NO WHERE!!!

The seventy weeks are over!!!

The Rapture comes after the tribulation, and after the resurrection.

This has nothing to do with my post.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Messiah was cut off - 33 AD

and

the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

Both of these events take place after the 69th week.

Both of these events can not "fit" into the 70th week.

Both of these events cover a time span of 37 years.

37 years does not fit into the 70th week.


CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS!!!


37 years of time has occurred after the 69th week and yet the 70th week is not mentioned until verse 27.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

The Rapture comes after the tribulation, and after the resurrection.

This has nothing to do with my post.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Messiah was cut off - 33 AD

and

the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

Both of these events take place after the 69th week.

Both of these events can not "fit" into the 70th week.

Both of these events cover a time span of 37 years.

37 years does not fit into the 70th week.


CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS!!!


37 years of time has occurred after the 69th week and yet the 70th week is not mentioned until verse 27.


JLB

Ok...like I said...we'll see. Peace be to you.

 

[JLB777]

Ok...like I said...we'll see. Peace be to you.

Please pick which event is not included in the 70 weeks time table.

Messiah cut off.

The city and sanctuary destroyed.

Which of these two do you think is not included in the 70th week?


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Please pick which event is not included in the 70 weeks time table.

Messiah cut off.

The city and sanctuary destroyed.

Which of these two do you think is not included in the 70th week?


JLB

The city and the sanctuary are not included in the seventy weeks. I have showed that in post #142.

Again, let's break down Daniel 9:24:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,

*to finish the transgression, - Jesus did that...He said on the cross "it is finished

*to make an end of sin, - Jesus did that! Hebrews 9:26:
Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

*to make atonement for iniquity, - Christ did that as Hebrews 9:11 says
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;

*to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Christ did this as we know our righteousness is in Christ.

*to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. - Christ did this When he rose from the dead and entered heaven. Hebrews 9:12
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
____________________

Daniel 9:24 shows that clearly:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

You want to include the sanctuary in the seventy weeks because of Daniel 9:27, which says:
27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

You have two things that happen in Daniel 9:27:
*The "firm covenant with the many for one week" is the the 3.5 years from Jesus ministry. Jesus ministered for 3.5 years and died on the cross, which "finished "the transgression". When Jesus ascended, He told the apostles the gospel was to be preached at Jerusalem in Acts 1:8 Jesus said:
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

For 3.5 years the gospel went to the Jews at Jerusalem, up until Stephen's stoning. That is 7 years and ends the 70th week! After Stephen is stoned a persecution happens at Jerusalem. and just as Jesus told them, they then went to Judea and Samaria with the gospel...that is Acts 8:1:
Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles

That is the seventy weeks! The sanctuary destruction is not part of the 70 weeks because the covenant is with "the many" for one week. It doesn't include the the temple destruction as many have said. The passage itself doesn't say that...it says "and on the wing of abominations..." this is after the seventy weeks. How do we know this? Because of what Daniel 9:24 says the 70 weeks covers!!!

 

[JLB777]

The city and the sanctuary are not included in the seventy weeks. I have showed that in post #142.

Again, let's break down Daniel 9:24:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,

*to finish the transgression, - Jesus did that...He said on the cross "it is finished

*to make an end of sin, - Jesus did that! Hebrews 9:26:
Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

*to make atonement for iniquity, - Christ did that as Hebrews 9:11 says
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;

*to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Christ did this as we know our righteousness is in Christ.

*to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. - Christ did this When he rose from the dead and entered heaven. Hebrews 9:12
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
____________________

Daniel 9:24 shows that clearly:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

You want to include the sanctuary in the seventy weeks because of Daniel 9:27, which says:
27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

You have two things that happen in Daniel 9:27:
*The "firm covenant with the many for one week" is the the 3.5 years from Jesus ministry. Jesus ministered for 3.5 years and died on the cross, which "finished "the transgression". When Jesus ascended, He told the apostles the gospel was to be preached at Jerusalem in Acts 1:8 Jesus said:
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

For 3.5 years the gospel went to the Jews at Jerusalem, up until Stephen's stoning. That is 7 years and ends the 70th week! After Stephen is stoned a persecution happens at Jerusalem. and just as Jesus told them, they then went to Judea and Samaria with the gospel...that is Acts 8:1:
Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles

That is the seventy weeks! The sanctuary destruction is not part of the 70 weeks because the covenant is with "the many" for one week. It doesn't include the the temple destruction as many have said. The passage itself doesn't say that...it says "and on the wing of abominations..." this is after the seventy weeks. How do we know this? Because of what Daniel 9:24 says the 70 weeks covers!!!

We agree that the events of 70 AD were not included in the 70 weeks.

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.


Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; - The 69th week ended.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, - 33 AD

Temple destroyed - 70 AD

All of the events in verse 26 happen BEFORE the 70th week.

The seventieth week doesn't happen untill verse 27.

The prophecy is not over with in verse 26.

The prophecy is not over with as of 70AD with the destruction of the temple and city.

In other words the prophecy is still running with the events of 70 AD, yet the 70th week has not started.

It doesn't start till the events of verse 27.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

We agree that the events of 70 AD were not included in the 70 weeks.

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.


Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; - The 69th week ended.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, - 33 AD

Temple destroyed - 70 AD

All of the events in verse 26 happen BEFORE the 70th week.

The seventieth week doesn't happen untill verse 27.

The prophecy is not over with in verse 26.

The prophecy is not over with as of 70AD with the destruction of the temple and city.

In other words the prophecy is still running with the events of 70 AD, yet the 70th week has not started.

It doesn't start till the events of verse 27.


JLB

Demonstrate why 9:24 says the accomplishments of Jesus on the cross are in the seventy weeks. The verse is very explicit about what happens within the 70 weeks..."finish the transgression" is one of them. Jesus most certainly said "it is finished". He also spoke of the 490 years to Peter stating forgiveness is 70 times 7 which is 490 years.

Now look at 9:26:
26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

Jesus is cut off AFTER 62 weeks, which is in the 69 weeks. So now you have a problem with your view because Jesus is cut after the 69 weeks. He makes a covenant in the middle of the week...which has to be of the 70th week.

This is the issue. Like I said, I was taught your view but even in that teaching I could see it wasn't right.

To say the antichrist makes a covenant just doesn't fit because nothing speaks of an antichirst.

 

[zeke37]

some scholars believe that Jesus' ministry was 70 weeks, not 3.5 years.
anyone here ever considered that?

 

[ebedmelech]

some scholars believe that Jesus' ministry was 70 weeks, not 3.5 years.
anyone here ever considered that?

I don't think it holds with Daniel 9:27, which says Messiah confirms the covenant with many in the middle of the week. That's the crucifixion.

I hold the 70 weeks runs up until the gospel leaves Jerusalem when Stephen is stoned. Acts 8:1 tells us ON THAT DAY the church was scattered from Jerusalem except the apostles. After that the gospel goes to Samaria and Judea.

 

[Douggg]

I don't think it holds with Daniel 9:27, which says Messiah confirms the covenant with many in the middle of the week. That's the crucifixion.

I hold the 70 weeks runs up until the gospel leaves Jerusalem when Stephen is stoned. Acts 8:1 tells us ON THAT DAY the church was scattered from Jerusalem except the apostles. After that the gospel goes to Samaria and Judea.

None of the disciples in the epistles said that the 70 weeks ended then.

And what about Samaria and Judea - aren't those in the land of Israel? And the new covenant is with Israel in Jeremiah 31, not just Jerusalem. And in what covenant did Jesus confirm then break?

Doug

 

[JLB777]

Demonstrate why 9:24 says the accomplishments of Jesus on the cross are in the seventy weeks. The verse is very explicit about what happens within the 70 weeks..."finish the transgression" is one of them. Jesus most certainly said "it is finished". He also spoke of the 490 years to Peter stating forgiveness is 70 times 7 which is 490 years.

Now look at 9:26:
26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

Jesus is cut off AFTER 62 weeks, which is in the 69 weeks. So now you have a problem with your view because Jesus is cut after the 69 weeks. He makes a covenant in the middle of the week...which has to be of the 70th week.

This is the issue. Like I said, I was taught your view but even in that teaching I could see it wasn't right.

To say the antichrist makes a covenant just doesn't fit because nothing speaks of an antichirst.

Demonstrate why 9:24 says the accomplishments of Jesus on the cross are in the seventy weeks

Thats the problem. Daniel 9:24 doesn't say that.

You have a preconceived mindset.

Like I have pointed out, Jesus was cut off outside of the the 70 week time frame.

The work on the cross includes Gentiles.

Jesus was crucified outside the city of Jerusalem.

Jesus was crucified after the 69th week, yet before the 70th week started.


His return, which is in fact salvation, will occur during the 70th week.

as it is written -

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Thats the problem. Daniel 9:24 doesn't say that.

You have a preconceived mindset.

Preconceived mindset??? Look at the verse! It's pretty clear what's included in the 70 weeks.

Like I have pointed out, Jesus was cut off outside of the the 70 week time frame.

That's what's preconceived right there! The verse says Seventy weeks are determined to accomplish these things...read it:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

The seventy weeks accomplish those things. Pretty clear.

The work on the cross includes Gentiles.

Indeed it does...but the gospel doesn't go to the Gentiles until Acts 8...just as Jesus told the apostles.

Jesus was crucified outside the city of Jerusalem.

Jesus was crucified after the 69th week, yet before the 70th week started.

That's not what the passage says JLB. By the passage itself 69 weeks are completed, yet Messiah is cut of after the 69 weeks in the middle of the week. How do you answer that?

His return, which is in fact salvation, will occur during the 70th week.

as it is written -

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB

The passage you choose doesn't make your point. The point it makes is "ultimate salvation" at Christ appearing, but we're already saved because we have the Holy Spirit as a down payment. The scripture always spekes of our salvation as a present possession.

When it comes to Daniel 9. Christ fulfills that when he says "it is finished"...that goes right to the point of "finish the transgression". Address that point.

Also, what do you think Jesus meant telling Peter he should forgive 70 x 7?

 

[Douggg]

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

Those who are apart from sin are those who are Christians. Christians eagerly await Jesus's appearing a second time because it will be for the redemption of our bodies.

Salvation is redemption of our souls - which takes place when we receive Jesus. And the redemption of our bodies, resurrected, or raptured if we are alive at the time of his appearing a second time. The first time was after the resurrection.

The first time was for the purpose of redeeming souls.
The second time is for the purpose of redeeming bodies.

Both appearings are for them who believe. The appearing a second time is not the Second Coming, or Jesus's Return. But the event of 1Thessalonians4:15-18.

Doug