Is there a break in Daniel's 70 weeks? (Daniel 9:26)

Is there a break in Daniel's 70 weeks? (Daniel 9:26)

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Houly

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Whether you are a preterist that believes Daniel's 70th 'seven' (week of 7 years) was fulfilled in 70 AD or a futurist that believes Daniel's 70th week is yet to be fulfilled, you must place a break in Daniel 9:26, between the end of the 69th week in 33 AD (when Jesus Christ was cut off) and the beginning of the 70th.

If you do not accept a break, where do you place the beginning and end of Daniel's 70 weeks?
 
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Houly said in post 1:

Whether you are a preterist that believes Daniel's 70th 'seven' (week of 7 years) was fulfilled in 70 AD or a futurist that believes Daniel's 70th week is yet to be fulfilled, you must place a break in Daniel 9:26, between the end of the 69th week in 33 AD (when Jesus Christ was cut off) and the beginning of the 70th.

That's right.

Even in preterism, there was a gap of decades between the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For first century AD Jerusalem wasn't destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion. Also, there will be a gap of about 7 years between the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For the current Jerusalem won't be destroyed until right before and at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21), about 7 years after the Antichrist "cuts" a 7-year treaty (Daniel 9:26a,27a) with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) who will be ruling Jerusalem.
 
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ancientsoul

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yes ...


And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: ... break ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.*
 
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Anto9us

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Yeah we got one gap or another

something fishy though
Dan 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

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Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
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Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
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Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
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Anto9us

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seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times

one thing fishy - the wall being rebuilt -- all of that is in the first seven "weeks" - why mention the "second period of 62 weeks and THEN say the street and wall were rebuilt

I thought all o that wall/street rebuilding was done in the "first seven of the 'seven's - under Nehemiah and Ezra" - that was the troublous time period, sumpn just doesn't jive why the 62 weeks are mentioned in between first 7 weeks and wall/street being built

anyway, no nothing helps about a gap of

"about a generation" if yer a preterist (this GENERATION shall not pass away til all be fulfilled) - a few decades, almost four

or a super-long gap if yer a Dispy PreTrib

a note in my Old Scofield bible says the crucifixion is only to be "after' the threescore and two weeks - no fixed date of crucifixion, iow - it could be well AFTER the 62 plus original 7 weeks - but that gets us nowhere either - we are still around 33 AD at latest when Messiah is cut off

so we have a gap no matter what

a partial preterist might say after a "little gap" of almost 4 decades, that NERO or Titus does the confirming and then causing sacrifices to end - but by the MIDDLE of the week - that's IT - Jerusalem is HISTORY -- if "oblation ceasing" = temple destruction

then there is no point to a "second half of a second week at all

so "nothing happens" during the second half of 70th week

and WHAT still needs to be accomplished as far as the "purposes" of th entire 70 weeks?

to finish the transgression

to make an end of sins

to make reconciliation for iniquity

TO BRING IN EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS

to seal up the vision and prophecy

to anoint the most Holy


a lot of that can be said to have been done, but if by bringing in everlasting righteousness one means establishing an earthly kingdom, no - it hasn't been done yet

I used to think it MATTERRED "where ya started" with a decree to 'go forth and restore to build Jerusalem'

but I no longer think it matters if you use Cyrus, Darius or Artaxerxes giving a decree to go back and build as a starting point

you still run up against a Crucifixion around 33 AD

with a GAP

and a 70th week to come after
 
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Serpentslayer

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Whether you are a preterist that believes Daniel's 70th 'seven' (week of 7 years) was fulfilled in 70 AD or a futurist that believes Daniel's 70th week is yet to be fulfilled, you must place a break in Daniel 9:26, between the end of the 69th week in 33 AD (when Jesus Christ was cut off) and the beginning of the 70th.

If you do not accept a break, where do you place the beginning and end of Daniel's 70 weeks?

Preterists are wrong and futurist are wrong!

These two eschatological doctrine self refute one another.

Let's look at the verse you brought to light:

Daniel 9:26
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease , and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Ok....

Let us break these special phrases into their meanings:

1) Confirm the Covenant. Which Covenant?
2) Confirm the Covenant for ONE WEEK. Is this ONE WEEK the 70th week?
3) In the Midst of the week he shall end all sacrifices and oblations. Who ends these sacrifices? What happened from the middle of the week to the end of the week?
4) Sacrifice and Oblation will cease. Who makes this decision? What do these sacrifices relate to?
5) Sacrifices and Oblation will cease EVEN UNTIL CONSUMATION. What is CONSUMATION? And whose CONSUMATION?
6) That determined shall be poured upon the desolate. What is determined? What is poured? And who are desolate?


You couldn't answer this verse unless you break it down according the meaning of the six phrases.

1) is part and parcel of the MESSIAH THE PRINCE to come as indicated in the previous, who will confirm the covenant. This is the NEW COVENANT OF THE LAMB OF GOD.

2) Messiah the Prince confirms this NEW COVENANT in one symbolic week. This would be when he was crucified on the cross at Calvary for the forgiveness of sins ONCE AND FOR ALL NATIONS. So the 70th week must be tied to the fulfilment of what Messiah set out to do for his people. This he did when saying "IT IS FINISHED". Salvation therefore came to the Jews first.

3) Messiah the Prince puts an end to all Jewish sacrificial systems by being that ultimate sacrifice to end all sacrifices ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME. The middle of the week is when Messiah the Prince was crucified in fulfilling what God planned in ending all animal sacrifices because His Son became the ultimate sacrifice to end all traditional Leviticus Jewish sacrifices that were mandated until the lamb of God would finally take that role.

3) also points to the remaining of the symbolic 70th week where after Messiah the Prince was crucified he would then complete the latter half the 70th week in paradise (Abraham's Bosom) where all the Old Testament Saints were asleep under the altar of God as spoken of in Revelation 6:9-11.

“And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of them that had been m, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a great voice, saying, How long, O Master, the holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And there was given them to each one a white robe; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little time, until their fellow-servants also and their brethren, who should be killed even as they were, should have fulfilled their course.”

Notice the FIFTH SEAL representing GRACE is when these Old Covenant Saints that were under the altar in Abraham's Bosom are calling Messiah the Prince Master. Notice these are those who were slain for the WORD OF GOD and not the TESTIMONY OF THE LAMB because they are the ones from every tribe of Israel that were resurrected when Messiah the Prince preached to them in the remainder of the 70th week in paradise.

So the fifth seal in Revelation 6:9-11 places the resurrected Old Covenant Saints in the latter half of the 70th week. What follows after Revelation Chapter 6 is 7 and chapter 7 tells us what happened when the fifth seal was opened by the lamb.

Sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed:and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

You could automatically see that those SEALED means REDEEMED to have part in THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD when Christ opened the Old Covenant graves in fulfilment to Ezekiel 37:11-14 and confirmed as prophecy fulfilled in Matthew 27:52-53.

Automatically when this latter half of the 70th week was fulfilled after Christ was resurrected and also resurrected those Old Covenant Saints who were asleep in Abraham's Bosom. That is why in Revelation 6:11 we are told that:

there was given them to each one a white robe

This is a RESURRECTION WHITE ROBE of an Angel as the Angelic Cloud (host), that Holy Ones that accompanied Christ into heaven after his resurrection as confirmed in Matthew 27:52-53 and in fulfilment of Ezekiel 37:11-14.

Not only that but if we look at the epistles we are also described the remainder of the symbolic 70th week.

Ephesians 4:8
This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people."

These captives we those serving in paradise awaiting the long awaited Messiah the Prince to RESURRECT THEM. In Revelation Chapter 7 these Opd Covenant Saints are numbered 12,000, 12,000 and so on.

The distinction between them and those that later would carry the testimony of the lamb of God are described withinnthebsame chapter.

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

As you can now discern the two different groups, the Old Covenant and the New Covenant Saints who are justified by the blood of the lamb. The previous ones were said to have been SLAIN FOR THE WORD OF GOD.

What is interesting is that in Revelation 6:11 these resurrected Old Covenant saints are told to be PATIENT (rest) until also their New Covenant brothers are killed and then resurrected as they were.

This talks about the end of harvest leading up to the wedding supper of the lamb called Sukkot Or the feast of tabernacles where the wedding is fully furnished with all the resurrected saints from when the fifth seal was opened at the latter half of the 70th week right up to the CONSUMATION of the bride of Christ for that ultimate wedding at the End of Age.

4) basically alludes to how God would end all Jewish sacrificial systems by the giving of his only begotten Son as the sacrificial lamb to end all sacrifices as far as God is concerned. If there are future sacrifices in an earthly Jewish temple then that would be concerned an abomination in the sight of The Lord because that would be in direct opposition to God's plan of salvation (CHARA).

5) talks about the CONSUMATION OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST that is fully CONSUMATED at the End of Age the end of harvest when the wedding of the lamb of God is fully furnished with resurrected guests as the Angelic white cloud. This could not have been 70AD as the preterists advocate. In fact 70AD has no relation to the 70th week.

6) What is determined? What is poured? And who are desolate?

We note that God's judgement is what is determined and this is what is poured upon those who rejected the Son. So the desolate becomes the Levitica bride without a husband, who now is sent away and made desolate by the Messiah the Prince and therefore becomes the Harlot of John's Revelation as the first Babylon that was judged in 70AD. However that being so the 70th week was none the less fulfilled previously when Christ ascended up on high taking with him the resurrected angelic white cloud.
 
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ebedmelech

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Whether you are a preterist that believes Daniel's 70th 'seven' (week of 7 years) was fulfilled in 70 AD or a futurist that believes Daniel's 70th week is yet to be fulfilled, you must place a break in Daniel 9:26, between the end of the 69th week in 33 AD (when Jesus Christ was cut off) and the beginning of the 70th.

If you do not accept a break, where do you place the beginning and end of Daniel's 70 weeks?
No you don't. The gap is contrived. Let the passage speak:
Daniel 9:26, 27:
26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

Nothing in the entire passage says the 70 weeks stop...NOTHING! Thie point is that in the middle of the week Messiah is cut off...but where is any indication the 70th week stops???

Now...look at Daniel 9:24:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed, for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
That is why I see no gap...because Jesus crucifixion is included in the 70 weeks The holy place is anointed when Jesus enters heaven (Hebrews 9:12, 24)

There is no gap because NOTHING says the 70 weeks stop!!!
 
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Serpentslayer

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Amen embedmelech also I would like to bring to your attention the following:

“Seventy weeks have been decreed, for your people and your holy city, to anoint the most holy place.

In all Bible Translations this word is rendered MOST HOLY PLACE. However this is incorrect the correct rendering of the word is in the King James Version.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1) to finish the transgression, and
2) to make an end of sins, and
3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6) to anoint the most Holy.

Basically these six sequential conditions given in order are FULLFILLED when 6) is fulfilled and that is to ANOINT THE MOST HOLY.

WHO IS THE MOST HOLY?

THE CHRIST OUR LORD.


This is why I double check other translations with the KJV 1611.
 
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Anto9us

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"The point is that in the middle of the week Messiah is cut off.."

No.

Nothing said Messiah is cut off IN THE MIDDLE OF ANY WEEK

just after the 62 weeks (which themselves were after the first 7 weeks)

so iow - after 69 weeks, Mesiiah is cut off

Messiah is GONE - cut off and have nothing

"He" in the 70th week is the Prince who is to come - whose PEOPLE destroy the city and the sanctuary

no way can you make that Prince who shall come Jesus - Jesus' people did not destroy the city and the sanctuary

Jesus is not the "He" that makes a firm covenant for one week

Jesus is cut off and "has nothing" after the 69 weeks
He is not cut off in the middle of any week!

and the people of the PRINCE who is to come destroy the city and temple

a complete 70th week of years is yet to be AFTER MESSIAH is cut off

one more week of years for the accomplishment of all those purposes that the whole 70 weeks was ordained for
 
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intojoy

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Houly said:
Whether you are a preterist that believes Daniel's 70th 'seven' (week of 7 years) was fulfilled in 70 AD or a futurist that believes Daniel's 70th week is yet to be fulfilled, you must place a break in Daniel 9:26, between the end of the 69th week in 33 AD (when Jesus Christ was cut off) and the beginning of the 70th.

If you do not accept a break, where do you place the beginning and end of Daniel's 70 weeks?

Yes
 
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ebedmelech

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"The point is that in the middle of the week Messiah is cut off.."

No.

Nothing said Messiah is cut off IN THE MIDDLE OF ANY WEEK

just after the 62 weeks (which themselves were after the first 7 weeks)

so iow - after 69 weeks, Mesiiah is cut off

Messiah is GONE - cut off and have nothing

"He" in the 70th week is the Prince who is to come - whose PEOPLE destroy the city and the sanctuary

no way can you make that Prince who shall come Jesus - Jesus' people did not destroy the city and the sanctuary

Jesus is not the "He" that makes a firm covenant for one week

Jesus is cut off and "has nothing" after the 69 weeks

and the people of the PRINCE who is to come destroy the city and temple

a complete 70th week of years is yet to be AFTER MESSIAH is cut off
When you understand that Jesus starts the 70th week when God anoints Him at His baptism and His ministry was 3 1/2 years...IT'S THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK!!!

Obviously Messiah being cut of is the crucifixion.
 
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ebedmelech

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We need a safe house from preterists the eschatology forums here are pathetic.
Well...I don't consider anyone "pathetic"...but futurism is "big time eschatological fantasy"...enjoy the ride...:thumbsup:
 
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intojoy

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ebedmelech said:
Well...I don't consider anyone "pathetic"...but futurism is "big time eschatological fantasy"...enjoy the ride...:thumbsup:

You don't have to, you're on every eschatological thread. Dougg is the only one thinking thru these things and he's wrong too. Nightmare.
 
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Houly

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When you understand that Jesus starts the 70th week when God anoints Him at His baptism and His ministry was 3 1/2 years...IT'S THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK!!!

Obviously Messiah being cut of is the crucifixion.

The cut off is the crucifixion of the Messiah the Prince, but it's not the AofD. The cut off is immediately after the 69th week. Then there is another entire week, under a covenant of a different prince, who's people will "destroy the city and the sanctuary;" Christians did not do this. In the middle of the 70th is the AofD.
 
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ebedmelech

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The cut off is the crucifixion of the Messiah the Prince, but it's not the AofD. The cut off is immediately after the 69th week. Then there is another entire week, under a covenant of a different prince, who's people will "destroy the city and the sanctuary;" Christians did not do this. In the middle of the 70th is the AofD.
No. Read it...it doesn't say immediately, you do. It says AFTER the 62 weeks Messiah will be cut off however it doesn't say when after the 62 weeks. Jesus makes and end of sin...so think on that one.

The AOD is to the Jewish mind. Because Jesus ended temple sacrifice. It only mattered to Jews. Think about that.

It was a sign to the apostles and saints to flee Jerusalem...nothing more.
 
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