Is there a break in Daniel's 70 weeks? (Daniel 9:26)

[JLB777]

The passage you choose doesn't make your point. The point it makes is "ultimate salvation" at Christ appearing, but we're already saved because we have the Holy Spirit as a down payment. The scripture always spekes of our salvation as a present possession.

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning of your faith.

8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:8-9

If you have faith in Jesus Christ, you have the hope of salvation.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for...

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

Our salvation will not be "seen" until the resurrection, when Jesus Christ returns.

So, yes that scripture does make my point.

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

I agree, we do have a "deposit" of the Holy Spirit, however we can't ignore the warnings and admonitions from the Holy Spirit that teach us to continue in the faith...

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

and again -

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

and again

9 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

Those who endure to the end will be saved.


JLB

 

[Douggg]

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

Those who endure to the end will be saved.

JLB

Hi JLB, a quick comment.

man
1. body - individually unique to each of us. All of our bodies are different from each other. When we physically die, we live on because we are spirit beings.

2. soul - us a spirit being, uniqueness to us as individuals - i.e. my soul is not your soul, although we are both created spirit beings.

3. spirit - created spirit being. That's ultimately what we are.

Jesus
1. body - took on the flesh of human kind, temple of God.
2. soul - unique Son of God
3. spirit - God, not a created spirit being, but the creator.

Salvation of our soul is the saving of us, on the personal level, as created spirit beings. My soul is not your soul, and vice versa.

Salvation is the redemption of our souls, and the redemption of our bodies.


Doug

 

[JLB777]

Hi JLB, a quick comment.

man
1. body - individually unique to each of us. All of our bodies are different from each other. When we physically die, we live on because we are spirit beings.

2. soul - us a spirit being, uniqueness to us as individuals - i.e. my soul is not your soul, although we are both created spirit beings.

3. spirit - created spirit being. That's ultimately what we are.

Jesus
1. body - took on the flesh of human kind, temple of God.
2. soul - unique Son of God
3. spirit - God, not a created spirit being, but the creator.

Salvation of our soul is the saving of us, on the personal level, as created spirit beings. My soul is not your soul, and vice versa.

Salvation is the redemption of our souls, and the redemption of our bodies.


Doug

Hey Brother,

I know what you are saying about the soul and the body.

Can you see from the scriptures I quoted that a person must hold fast his faith unto the end.

Please read the following scriptures.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for...

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

Our salvation will not be "seen" until the resurrection, when Jesus Christ returns.

So, yes that scripture does make my point.

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

I agree, we do have a "deposit" of the Holy Spirit, however we can't ignore the warnings and admonitions from the Holy Spirit that teach us to continue in the faith...

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

and again -

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

and again

9 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

OSAS is not a valid doctrine.

You must remain faithful to the end.

Please consider the sower and the seed parable.

You are saved by Grace through faith.

So if you have faith, you are in fact "hoping for" the salvation of your soul.

Faith is the substance of the thing you are hoping for.

The reality that your faith is hoping for is the salvation of your soul.

That reality occurs when Jesus Christ returns and in fact declares these words to you -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


The other option will be -

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


Jesus Christ the righteous Judge will make the determination at the end of the age when he returns and Judges the living and the dead.

When you here these words from the Lord, -

'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Then and only then will you no longer have faith, you will no longer be "saved in this hope", but you will be saved in reality.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning of your faith.

8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:8-9

If you have faith in Jesus Christ, you have the hope of salvation.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for...

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

Our salvation will not be "seen" until the resurrection, when Jesus Christ returns.

So, yes that scripture does make my point.

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

I agree, we do have a "deposit" of the Holy Spirit, however we can't ignore the warnings and admonitions from the Holy Spirit that teach us to continue in the faith...

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

and again -

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

and again

9 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

Those who endure to the end will be saved.


JLB

No sir. While you're addressing salvation, you leave out that salvation is a present thing. When it comes to salvation. Jesus' promise is that none who are saved will be lost. Those who endure...endure because of Christ! Verses that make my point:

John 10:27-30:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.

We are secure in our faith because of Christ.

Romans 5;1-5
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
The Holy Spirit secures us in our faith.

However this point would take us away from the discussion, because it's about the security of the believer.

The point is...we cannot keep saved. God saves us and empowers us by His Holy Spirit to live for him.

Again...those who endure to then end...endure because of Christ!

You use Romans 8:24...but you don't go to the point of us being predestined! That would be Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified;and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
No one can take credit for their salvation...IT IS OF GOD BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

 

[ebedmelech]

None of the disciples in the epistles said that the 70 weeks ended then.

And what about Samaria and Judea - aren't those in the land of Israel? And the new covenant is with Israel in Jeremiah 31, not just Jerusalem. And in what covenant did Jesus confirm then break?

Doug

Because they were already over. The disciples don't speak to 70 weeks PERIOD!!!

You have NO point.

Samarians and those of Judea were many of mixed race...remember Jesus with "the woman at the well" in John 4?

You're reaching Doug.

Jeremiah 31 cannot be properly applied if you don't understand who the true Jew is! Just as Paul said..."THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHO ARE DESCENDED FROM ISRAEL!!!

Keep reading that until you believe it.

 

[JLB777]

No sir. While you're addressing salvation, you leave out that salvation is a present thing. When it comes to salvation. Jesus' promise is that none who are saved will be lost. Those who endure...endure because of Christ! Verses that make my point:

John 10:27-30:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.

We are secure in our faith because of Christ.

Romans 5;1-5
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
The Holy Spirit secures us in our faith.

However this point would take us away from the discussion, because it's about the security of the believer.

The point is...we cannot keep saved. God saves us and empowers us by His Holy Spirit to live for him.

Again...those who endure to then end...endure because of Christ!

You use Romans 8:24...but you don't go to the point of us being predestined! That would be Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified;and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
No one can take credit for their salvation...IT IS OF GOD BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

Salvation is ever present as long as faith is ever present.

That is why wrote these very words -

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23

JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Salvation is ever present as long as faith is ever present.

That is why wrote these very words -

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23

JLB

Even your faith is a gift from God though His grace, as Ephesians 2:8-10 state clearly:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


This is a point you have to walk right down the middle of...we can claim nothing...IT'S ALL GOD!!!

 

[JLB777]

Even your faith is a gift from God though His grace, as Ephesians 2:8-10 state clearly:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


This is a point you have to walk right down the middle of...we can claim nothing...IT'S ALL GOD!!!

The initial faith is a gift from God, however the scriptures teach us that we must continue in this faith, and not be turned away from the hope of the Gospel.

We do not just ignore what the whole counsel of God teaches us.

If later in our walk we fall from the faith or we chose to turn away from God.

If you have faith, then you are hoping for the salvation of your soul.


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

The initial faith is a gift from God, however the scriptures teach us that we must continue in this faith, and not be turned away from the hope of the Gospel.

We do not just ignore what the whole counsel of God teaches us.

If later in our walk we fall from the faith or we chose to turn away from God.

If you have faith, then you are hoping for the salvation of your soul.


JLB

The whole counsel of God says nothing of "initial faith". Those who fall away fall away for the reason 1 John 2:19 says:
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Furthermore Hebrews 12 teaches us that as God's children when we stray...He chastises us. Hebrews 12:4-8:
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Anyway you look at it it comes back to God.

 

[JLB777]

The whole counsel of God says nothing of "initial faith". Those who fall away fall away for the reason 1 John 2:19 says:
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Furthermore Hebrews 12 teaches us that as God's children when we stray...He chastises us. Hebrews 12:4-8:
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Anyway you look at it it comes back to God.

God has done His part.

You just choose to ignore what is written -

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

and again -

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

and again

9 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


OSAS is a false doctrine!


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

God has done His part.

You just choose to ignore what is written -

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

and again -

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

and again

9 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


OSAS is a false doctrine!


JLB

OSAS ...(Once saved always saved), is quite true! Find one person that the scripture says lost their salvation.

The doctrine I speak is that of scripture. You cannot stand before God with anything with which you can claim heaven.

Salvation is a FREE GIFT!!!

No JLB...you're doing the choosing. When you get through...It's God...not you.

God did it all...He sent Jesus to do what you could not do, which is perfectly obey God's laws.

The ONLY righteousness you have is the righteousness of Christ, because He is the ONLY one to never sin.

There is NO way you can stand before God and say you did anything.

Find one scripture that says you can.

You say to read the whole counsel...but you don't. Paul said of himself he was chief of sinners...Peter denied Christ.

It's Paul that said in Phil 3:7-9
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

Salvation is all God and NONE of you! Find one scripture that says...as you say..."God has done His part".

 

[zeke37]

I don't think it holds with Daniel 9:27, which says Messiah confirms the covenant with many in the middle of the week. That's the crucifixion.

I hold the 70 weeks runs up until the gospel leaves Jerusalem when Stephen is stoned. Acts 8:1 tells us ON THAT DAY the church was scattered from Jerusalem except the apostles. After that the gospel goes to Samaria and Judea.

well, maybe it's a multi-fold prophesy.
folks argue this or that all the time...
what if each side is partially right
you've been at it with a few folks lately...
you are stubborn lol.

i'm trying to form an opinion still...starting to lean one way...

i'm STILL a futurist, at least for now, but....

the "new to me" contention is that the 70 weeks are literally Christ's length of teaching
chronologically through the gospels
in which everything in v24 gets fulfilled
I am not alone with that thought either.
it fits perfect with v24.

after we realize what Messiah will do, and how long it will take Him,
we are going to be told WHEN Christ comes (came)
we are told to know verse 25's meaning.

it is about from the time when Jerusalem is commanded to be set back up,
until Messiah is born

it's still about Jesus, but it's about his birth
the end of the 62 = his birth

this prophesy (v25) was understood as the timing of His birth
by good and bad folk alike.
remember the wise men commissioned to seek the King
and bring Him gifts at the appointed time

remember the baby boys were being killed by Caesar,
why baby Jesus went to Egypt


then move to v26
about Jesus being cut off after the 62 part of v25 (after His birth obv)
and about the future (to Daniel) destruction of the temple in 70ad

and also, about what happens at the end, wars etc.
is this end part still about the temple in 70 ad,
or does it open up a futuristic interpretation?

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined
​

then on to v27, the one really under debate

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
​

so far we have the following;

v24...70 literal weeks (about His ministry's length)
v25...7+62 weeks of years (from Judah's commandment to go back, till Messiah)
v26...after 62 weeks, Messiah's death, temple destroyed
v27...1 week with a midst

so, about this 1 week with a midst (v27)
we are introduced to a seperate week in v27, than before it, are we not?
and we are only ever given info about 1/2 of it

but I see both points, yours and futurists...
per yours, this is again seems to be speaking about Jesus and the cross. (midst)

but,

certain futuristic interp's gains strength with the thought being that
the conclusion (2nd half) of the week with a midst, is yet future,
ending with the 1/2 week of years mentioned in Rev 1260 days/42 months
and also because when reading the scroll from Isaiah,
Jesus stopped after reading the acceptable year of the Lord part
and did not read the vengeance part, saving it for later

so maybe the midst was indeed His death,
but the remainder was not about Steven's death,
but rather it's end is at His vengeance at His 2nd Coming



also, do u believe Jesus was referencing v27 when He spoke of the A of D?

 

[Bible2]

JLB777 said in post 166:

Salvation is ever present as long as faith is ever present.

That is why wrote these very words -

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23

Amen.

The Bible doesn't teach once-saved-always-saved, but shows that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only "if" they continue in the faith to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Hebrews 3:12, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, even if they do continue in the faith, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also patiently continue to the end in obedience and good works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9; 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14; 1 John 2:17b), as in works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Also, even if they do continue in faith and good works of faith, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also continue to repent from every sin that they might commit, to the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to commit unrepentant sin, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Luke 12:45-46; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus' death for our sins (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (cf. Acts 22:16a).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they partake of the divine flesh and blood of communion (John 6:53, Matthew 26:26-28; 1 Corinthians 10:16; 1 Corinthians 11:27-30). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (cf. John 6:60,66).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they forgive everyone for every wrong (Matthew 6:14-15). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 18:21-35).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they do all that they can (Romans 12:18) to make reparations to and peace with everyone whom they've ever wronged (Matthew 5:23-26, cf. Acts 24:16). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that.

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (3 John 1:10b).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they provide for their families (1 Timothy 5:8). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that.

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't commit the unforgivable sin, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29). An example of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying that an act performed by the power of the Holy Spirit (e.g. Matthew 12:28) is performed by Satan (Mark 3:22-30). There's no assurance that initially saved people will never choose to say that (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:39b; 1 Thessalonians 5:19).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't remove words from the book of Revelation, and then publish the altered text as if it were the original, without repentance (Revelation 22:19). There's no assurance that they will never choose to do that (cf. 2 Corinthians 4:2).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't worship the future Antichrist and his image, and willingly receive his mark on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 14:9-12, Revelation 13:16-18). There's no assurance that they won't choose to do that (1 Timothy 4:1).

Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue in God's goodness to the end (Romans 11:20-22). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Luke 12:45-46).

Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 2:26). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Revelation 21:7-8).

All this is said not to engender any unhealthy fear in believers, but the healthy fear which all believers are supposed to have (e.g. Romans 11:20-22).

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 167:

Even your faith is a gift from God though His grace, as Ephesians 2:8-10 state clearly:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Initial salvation is by grace through faith without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5). But other passages show that initially saved people must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they're to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For believers must actually continue to do righteous deeds if they're to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there's no assurance that believers will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Also, Ephesians 2:10 doesn't mean that true believers will automatically perform good works. For while God makes it possible for saved people to do the right thing (Philippians 2:13, John 15:4-5), he doesn't take away their free will, turning them into robots, or into macabre flesh puppets, mere marionettes whom he forces to dance across the stage as he pulls on their strings. Instead, he leaves them as his real children with free will. And so they have to choose every day to deny themselves, take up their crosses, and follow Jesus to the end (Luke 9:23, Matthew 24:13). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46, Luke 8:13).

*******

ebedmelech said in post 169:

Those who fall away fall away for the reason 1 John 2:19 says:
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Note that 1 John 2:19 doesn't require that apostate believers were never real believers, but can mean that apostate believers were never of the overcomers to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). Real believers who have their names written in the book of life can have their names blotted out if they fail to overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). People can really believe only for awhile before at some point wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:3), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

ebedmelech said in post 169:

Furthermore Hebrews 12 teaches us that as God's children when we stray...He chastises us. Hebrews 12:4-8:
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
6 For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

The ability of believers (though not their choosing) to repent from and confess to God every sin that they might commit is assured. For if they do commit a sin, even if they're unaware of it, Jesus will send them warning and chastisement to make sure that they know that they've sinned and need to repent (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-7, cf. Jeremiah 31:18-19). And he will give them time to repent (Revelation 2:21a). It's only if they wrongly employ their free will to waste the time that they're given, and ignore the warning and chastisement, and refuse to repent (Revelation 2:21-23, cf. Deuteronomy 21:18-21) until death (1 John 5:16b) or Jesus' return (Luke 12:45-46), that they will ultimately lose their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

If saved people become unsure whether or not they've ignored Jesus' warning and refused to repent from a sin, they need to pray and ask him to reveal to them if there's any unrepentant sin in their hearts (Psalms 139:23-24). And they need to be reading the Bible, every word of it (Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16), over and over again. For it will expose to them every unrepentant sin which may still exist within their hearts (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16), so that they can repent from it and confess it to God and be forgiven and perfect before God (2 Timothy 3:17; 1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).

*******

ebedmelech said in post 171:

Find one person that the scripture says lost their salvation.

Even though Judas was chosen/elect like the other apostles (Luke 6:13), he still subsequently became a devil (John 6:70-71) because he wrongly employed his free will to begin to love money more than Jesus (John 12:3-6, Mark 14:3-11; 1 Timothy 6:10, Matthew 6:24).

John 17:12 doesn't mean (as is sometimes claimed) that no saved person can ultimately be lost (as in, e.g. Hebrews 10:26-29), but refers only to none of the chosen/elect/saved 12 apostles (Luke 6:13) becoming lost, except Judas.

ebedmelech said in post 171:

Salvation is a FREE GIFT!!!

Romans 6:23 doesn't require once-saved-always-saved, for a free gift can be taken away. For example, imagine that a father gives his young son a puppy as a free gift (cf. Romans 6:23), but warns him that he has to remember to feed and water the puppy every day (cf. Luke 9:23) or it will die (cf. James 2:26). The son says no problem, and takes good care of the puppy for a couple of weeks, but then gets so distracted by playing video games that he forgets to feed or water the puppy for 3 days and it dies. The father then takes the dead puppy away from the son and buries it in the back yard (cf. John 15:2a,6). Does this mean that the puppy wasn't a free gift?

ebedmelech said in post 171:

Salvation is all God and NONE of you!

2 Corinthians 5:9, 1 Corinthians 3:9, Colossians 1:29, and Philippians 2:12b show that Christians themselves must actually labor, along with God. Ultimate salvation is synergistic because Christians can end up losing their salvation if they wrongly employ their free will to stop their laboring, without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 154:

To say the antichrist makes a covenant just doesn't fit because nothing speaks of an antichirst.

In Daniel 9:26, the original Hebrew word (karath, H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). The future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be the fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false Messiah and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years, he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he's (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

~

Even in preterism, there was a gap of decades between the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For first century AD Jerusalem wasn't destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion. Also, there will be a gap of about 7 years between the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For the current Jerusalem won't be destroyed until right before and at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21), about 7 years after the Antichrist "cuts" a 7-year treaty (Daniel 9:26a,27a) with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) who will be ruling Jerusalem.

In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman Empire soldiers from nations throughout the Roman Empire (which included the territory of modern-day Lebanon). These soldiers were "the people" in Daniel 9:26, their "prince" being Titus. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, Jerusalem will be destroyed by all nations of the earth, which will all be under the Antichrist's rule by that time (Revelation 13:7b), when they gather against Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21).

And just as "the city" in Daniel 9:26 is Jerusalem, so "the sanctuary" is the Jewish temple building in Jerusalem. In the first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, the 2nd Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Roman Empire soldiers. In the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b, a future, 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:2, Luke 19:44), when Jerusalem is pillaged by all nations of the earth right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21).

ebedmelech said in post 154:

To say the antichrist makes a covenant just doesn't fit because nothing speaks of an antichirst.

The man commonly called the Antichrist is the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He's the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Luciferian miracles (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20), whereas at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the scriptures by the church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).

*******

ebedmelech said in post 164:

John 10:27-30:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.

John 10:28-29 means that saved people will never perish so long as they remain in God's hand, and that no one outside of a saved person can ever take him or her out of God's hand. But John 10:28-29 doesn't mean that saved people are imprisoned in God's hand, that saved people can't wrongly employ their free will to jump out of God's hand themselves, such as by committing apostasy, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12). Also, John 10:28-29 isn't contradicting the fact that God himself can in the end cast saved people out of his hand, that they can in the end lose their salvation, if they don't continue in his goodness (Romans 11:20-22), such as by wrongly employing their free will to commit sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or to become utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

Also, John 10:28-29 doesn't mean that a saved person's will is kept in God's hand in the sense that a saved person can't wrongly employ his will to the ultimate loss of his salvation. For any such "kept" will would be nothing but a destroyed will. It would make saved people like people who have been lobotomized and drugged and locked up in a cell. Thank God that he doesn't do that to saved people, but leaves them as free people with free will. And because he does, they themselves have to choose each and every day for the rest of their lives to deny themselves, to take up their crosses themselves, and to continue to follow Jesus (Luke 9:23) to the end. And the Bible gives no assurance that every saved person will choose to do that (Hebrews 10:26-29, Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:2a).

ebedmelech said in post 164:

That would be Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified;and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Romans 8:28-39 applies only to "them who are the called according to God's purpose" (Romans 8:28), i.e. the elect (Romans 8:33), and only to those elect who "love God" (Romans 8:28), meaning those who continue to obey him (1 John 5:3). The elect, even after they get saved, can wrongly employ their free will to stop obeying God, which means to stop loving him (John 14:24, Matthew 24:12).

Saved people need to be careful to keep themselves in the love of God (Jude 1:21), and to continue in his goodness (Romans 11:22), by continuing in obedience to him (John 15:10, John 14:21,23), if they don't want God to ultimately cut them off (Romans 11:22, John 15:2a), and cast them away (1 Corinthians 9:27, John 15:6).

The way for believers to expect mercy from God (Jude 1:21b) is for them to repent from all their sins and confess them to God (1 Jn. 1:9). Believers can't expect mercy from God if they commit apostasy (Jude 1:5, Hebrews 6:4-8), or commit unrepentant sin (Jude 1:7-18,23, Hebrews 10:26-29), turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4), or if they become utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

ebedmelech said in post 164:

No one can take credit for their salvation...IT IS OF GOD BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

It's impossible to believe or to continue to believe all the right things apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2) and some measure of his Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Also, it's impossible to perform or to continue to perform all the right actions as believers apart from God making it possible for believers to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it's impossible to repent if a sin is committed apart from God making it possible to do that (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if believers do continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:31). But when Jesus will judge the church at his 2nd coming, he will give them some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify saved people (e.g. Romans 8:30).

 

[Bible2]

.

 

[JLB777]

OSAS ...(Once saved always saved), is quite true! Find one person that the scripture says lost their salvation.

The doctrine I speak is that of scripture. You cannot stand before God with anything with which you can claim heaven.

Salvation is a FREE GIFT!!!

No JLB...you're doing the choosing. When you get through...It's God...not you.

God did it all...He sent Jesus to do what you could not do, which is perfectly obey God's laws.

The ONLY righteousness you have is the righteousness of Christ, because He is the ONLY one to never sin.

There is NO way you can stand before God and say you did anything.

Find one scripture that says you can.

You say to read the whole counsel...but you don't. Paul said of himself he was chief of sinners...Peter denied Christ.

It's Paul that said in Phil 3:7-9
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

Salvation is all God and NONE of you! Find one scripture that says...as you say..."God has done His part".

Peter came back because.....?

Jesus prayed what???

Did Jesus pray, Father Peter has been chosen from the foundation of the world as My elect....????

NO!!!

Jesus prayed -

That his FAITH WOULD NOT FAIL.

Which is just exactly the same thing as continuing in the faith! Colossians 1:23


OSAS is FALSE DOCTRINE !!!


JLB

 

[ebedmelech]

Peter came back because.....?

Jesus prayed what???

Did Jesus pray, Father Peter has been chosen from the foundation of the world as My elect....????

NO!!!

Jesus prayed -

That his FAITH WOULD NOT FAIL.

Which is just exactly the same thing as continuing in the faith! Colossians 1:23


OSAS is FALSE DOCTRINE !!!


JLB

You still haven't nanmd anyone who lost salvation...

You're also making my point... Peter failed but He remained saved. Why? Because Jesus prayed for Him. It wasn't Peter...it was Jesus. Peter can't remained saved. Peter is saved because Jesus called Him in the boat....

Paul is saved because Jesus knocked him off his horse.

Deal with the whole counsel of God, as you said. You're not doing it!

Ephesians 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:29, 30:
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Think as you will...but just saying a doctrine is false doesn't make it false. You want to think you have something to do with your salvation...you don't.

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Now...back to Daniel....

 

[ebedmelech]

Initial salvation...

Just like I told JLB...find "initial salvation" in the scriptures...you can't. Find someone who lost salvation in the scriptures...you can't Bible2.

You used Judas...he was never saved, Jesus made no bones about it. Judas was chosen "that the scripture might be fulfilled". He made it clear when He said "Have I not chosen you and one of you is a devil."

You're a mish mash of "this doesn't mean" and "note thats" that don't mean a thing.

Just like I told JLB, I'm telling you...if Jesus doesn't go to the cross NO ONE is saved...NO ONE!!!

Philippians 1:6:
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

You don't keep saved...you either are, or you aren't. The scriptures are loaded with saints who failed miserably but because God saved them He forgave them and they remained saved.

So think what you want Bible2...you're saved because God saved you...you will remain saved because God empowers you.

It's God...not you when it comes to salvation. Just be thankful and Believe Him

Notice I didn't have to play "scripture lawyer" Bible2, and write a book.

YOU ARE "CHOSEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD".

So in what you are saying Bible2, and you "this doesn't mean" and "note that's" read Ephesians 1:4:
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

Find where you do anything in that...

 

[JLB777]

You still haven't nanmd anyone who lost salvation...

You're also making my point... Peter failed but He remained saved. Why? Because Jesus prayed for Him. It wasn't Peter...it was Jesus. Peter can't remained saved. Peter is saved because Jesus called Him in the boat....

Paul is saved because Jesus knocked him off his horse.

Deal with the whole counsel of God, as you said. You're not doing it!

Ephesians 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Romans 8:29, 30:
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Think as you will...but just saying a doctrine is false doesn't make it false. You want to think you have something to do with your salvation...you don't.

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Now...back to Daniel....

I have dealt with each point you have made in the past, as I am dealing with the point you are making now.

This point covers BOTH Peter and Paul, for Paul wrote Colossians 1:23.

So far the example of Peter and Paul have been shown to be saved because their faith continued and remained.

The only way to the Father is through Jesus, faith in Him and obedience to the Gospel.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end. Hebrews 6:4-11


15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people's matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.

"If the righteous one is scarcely saved,...


For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:14


9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9


Brother, I don't know who taught you the Gospel you teach here, but I would encourage you consider what these scriptures teach.


JLB