Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

[dlamberth]

Just love k at Jesus, who is God and created the world, and the separation of creator from creation becomes incredibly obvious.

Shalom.

Thanks. I just don't know how to separate the Life Force of God from this Creation. To separate Christ from Humanity doesn't work for me either.

 

[renniks]

Is it a sin or a crime?
In Belgium the speed limit is 120 km/h. In France it is 130 km/h. Is driving 125 km/h a sin? Do you break any divine rule at 125 km/h?

Missing the point. Breaking the law is sin, unless it's a law that runs counter to God's laws. Why would it be wrong to drive 125 km an hour if the speed limit was 130?

 

[renniks]

Sin is defined as intentional disobedience to the known will of God. An atheist would not characterize a wrongdoing as "sin" because he does not believe in God, not because he denies the possibility of wrongdoing.

It's still sin whether he believes in it or not.

 

[chad kincham]

In spite of it. Spring festivals existed long before Easter. Interesting that the English speaking world chose to celebrate a pagan goddess, don't you think?

We celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on the Jewish feast of Passover, because Jesus is the Passover lamb that the first Passover was the foreshadow of.

The pagan goddess is irrelevant to our celebrating resurrection day.

Shalom.

 

[chad kincham]

I'm still trying to understand why you find eternity scary. You really haven't made that point that I've seen.

I guarantee you that when they’re facing eternity on their deathbed, that’s what would scare them, and they’d wish for more time.

 

[chad kincham]

So the purpose in the afterlife will be 'to live' and 'to reign'?
i) How can 'to live' happen in an afterlife?
and;
ii) 'Reign' over what, exactly?

When Jesus returns and rules over the nations of earth with a rod of Iron, His followers will rule and reign with Him, per the book of Revelation.

 

[driewerf]

Missing the point. Breaking the law is sin, unless it's a law that runs counter to God's laws. Why would it be wrong to drive 125 km an hour if the speed limit was 130?

Why would it be oké to drive at 125 km/h when the speed limit is 120 km/h?
What divine rule do you break?

 

[chad kincham]

No, my point is the same as Bungle Bear's: despite your claims to the contrary, most of the Bible was written before Christianity existed.

And the Old Testament is chock full of foreshadows and prophecies about the new covenant to come - it in fact points the way to it.

 

[Mr Laurier]

You mean this?

• 30 October 1991: The Halloween Monster, a.k.a. The Perfect Storm, strikes the U.S. amid the "land-for-peace" Madrid peace talks; President Bush's ocean-side home destroyed.
• 23 August 1992: President Bush moves Madrid talks to U.S. soil; that very day, Hurricane Andrew devastates southern Florida.
• 16 January 1994: President Clinton meets with Syrian President Hafez Assad to discuss more "land for peace" arrangements; less than 24 hours later, a 6.9 earthquake pulverized southern California.
• 1 September 1993: President Clinton announces a meeting with Arafat for the Oslo peace accords, to be held on 13 September; after a week of meandering in the Atlantic Ocean, Hurricane Emily hits North Carolina on that very day.
• 21 January 1998: while waiting to meet with Arafat at the White House, President Clinton's sex scandal breaks out.
• 27 September 1998: Arafat is meeting with the president in Washington; Hurricane Georges hits Alabama and stalls. The hurricane stalls until Arafat leaves and then it dissipates. Parts of Alabama declared a disaster area.
• 17 October 1998: Arafat comes to the Wye Plantation meeting; incredible rains fall on Texas, which cause record flooding. Parts of Texas declared a disaster area.
• 3 September 1999: Secretary of State Albright meets with Arafat in Israel; Hurricane Dennis comes ashore on this very day after weeks of changing course in the Atlantic Ocean.
• 12-26 July 2000: Arafat at the Camp David meetings. Powerful droughts throughout the country. Forest fires explode in West into uncontrollable fires. By the end of August, 7 million acres are burnt.
• 9 November 2000, two days after the presidential election: Arafat meets with President Clinton at the White House to try and salvage the peace process; worst election crisis in over 100 years occurs.

I'll tell you what.

You go settle on your land, then let some of the neighbors come along and say, "I want this plot ... then that plot ... and that plot over there ..."

You call the sheriff, and he comes and says, "Aw ... give them some of your land, if it'll make them happy!"

What would you do?

I would resist, just like the native Palestinians have done.
The problem is that the occupation are not neighbors. They are foreign invaders from across the sea.
And the Palestinians have given up over half of their [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] state. But the settlers keep taking more.

 

[Mr Laurier]

No I do not understand that "no jew would be buried with coins on their eyes", do you have evidence that what you are saying is correct?

Jewish holy law

 

[chad kincham]

The pages might be good apologetics but is not it is not evidence that can be demonstrated using the scientific method because it is not falsifiable.

Science philosopher Karl Popper infamously got into big trouble for honestly admitting that evolution is not science, but is metaphysics, because it’s not falsifiable - every time one area of evolutionary theory dead-ends, they just hop onto another rabbit trail, over and over again.

After the weight of the entire science community fell on him in outrage for telling it like it is, he had to back peddle as fast as he could.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You obviously missed this:

The idea of feathered dinosaurs and the theropod origin of birds is being actively promulgated by a cadre of zealous scientists acting in concert with certain editors at Nature and National Geographic who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the faith. Truth and careful scientific weighing of evidence have been among the first casualties in their program, which is now fast becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our age---the paleontological equivalent of cold fusion. If Sloan's article is not the crescendo of this fantasia, it is difficult to imagine to what heights it can next be taken. But it is certain that when the folly has run its course and has been fully exposed, National Geographic will unfortunately play a prominent but unenviable role in the book that summarizes the whole sorry episode.

No no. I caught that part. It stood out. It was key to my assessment. I've seen it before. Up close on things I really know a lot about. (The things I study.) It's a very common phenomenon that is at the heart of the aphorism "science advances one funeral at a time". There are a lot of scientists who don't like when new results change what they learned or the framework they used to analyze things.

He also seems to miscomprehend the "cold fusion" episode. An incident where the community reactions were strong and largely negative and it was early recognized that the most likely source of the signal report was some sort of measurement error or insufficient control that would have been caught in a proper review prior to publication.

I'm not going to review the new material that you posted as it is quite technical and outside of my expertise.

 

[Mr Laurier]

That's all I wanted you to say, captain.

You can go on and on and on about how bad the tabloids were, but scientists did their part as well; and it's the scientists, not the tabloids, I'm calling out.

Scientists named a specimen. That's all they did.
The fact that you want me to bury the facts, in favour f your fantasy, tells me that you are more interested in upholding your own delusion, than in the truth.

 

[Speedwell]

It's still sin whether he believes in it or not.

It's a sin if it is contrary to the known will of God.

 

[Hans Blaster]

C14 is particularly unreliable due to the degradation of the earths magnetic field.

The Earth's magnetic field isn't strong enough to alter the decay of *any* nucleus, including Carbon-14.

 

[chad kincham]

I would resist, just like the native Palestinians have done.
The problem is that the occupation are not neighbors. They are foreign invaders from across the sea.
And the Palestinians have given up over half of their [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] state. But the settlers keep taking more.

You’ve fallen for the outrageous propaganda hook, line and sinker.

When the League of Nations/ United Nations gave that land to Israel there was a slogan that went with it - a land without people, for a people without a land.

That’s backed up by the famous skeptic Mark Twain, who wrote about his visit to that land before Israelis moved there, and described it as a sparsely populated desert land.

Only after Israel moved there and terraformed the desert and invented things like drip irrigation, and made the area habitable, did the Arabs start moving in and tried to claim it as theirs.

The Israelis had no problem letting Arabs move there, but in 1948 as soon as Israel officially became a nation, six surrounding Arab nations attacked them to destroy them, and they ordered the Arabs to leave the area until Israel was wiped out, thus becoming so-called refugees, which the Arabs are still using after decades, for political reasons, as part of the false accusations and propaganda against Israel.

 

[chad kincham]

The person ducking us you. You have been asked to provide evidence supporting historical accuracy of the gospels and empirical evidence of ID. Your response was to link to a gish gallop of PRATTs which did not contain any of the requested evidence. Do you have anything to support your claims, or do you accept you made unsupportable assertions and move on?

Try looking up Harvard law school founder and expert in legal rules of evidence, Simon Greenlleaf, who examined the gospels as a skeptic with the intent of discrediting them, but found the evidence went the other way, and wrote about it in “The Testimony of the Evangelicals” which is still kept on some law school websites, such as this one:

Testimony of the Evangelists by Simon Greenleaf

 

[chad kincham]

The Earth's magnetic field isn't strong enough to alter the decay of *any* nucleus, including Carbon-14.

El wrongo.

C14 is created high up in the stratosphere and falls to earth where it ends up in the food chain and therefore in plants and animals, and they measure levels of it to obtain an age for a plant or dead animal.

Except the strength of the magnetosphere also degrades, it has a half life too, and the strength of the magnetic field has a direct affect on how much C 14 falls to earth and is absorbed by living things, and thus it can’t be a reliable radiometric dating system - which explains how living animals have been dated at 40,000 years old.

 

[chad kincham]

Who doubts that some person existed? He wasn't named Jesus,
nobody knows when or where he died.
After he died, people were miraculously able to " remember" things he said
and did.

Therefore I should say something I don't believe?

As for Pascal, according to Islam I am at risk of being
hung by my hair in eternal fire as I refuse to cover my
hair in public.

In the event " god" would not be fooled if I say I believe
something when I don't. Maybe Allah could be tricked by
me covering my hair,

The New Testament was written by eyewitnesses.

 

[Hans Blaster]

El wrongo.

C14 is created high up in the stratosphere and falls to earth where it ends up in the food chain and therefore in plants and animals, and they measure levels of it to obtain an age for a plant or dead animal.

Except the strength of the magnetosphere also degrades, it has a half life too, and the strength of the magnetic field has a direct affect on how much C 14 falls to earth and is absorbed by living things, and thus it can’t be a reliable radiometric dating system - which explains how living animals have been dated at 40,000 years old.

Wrongo back at ya.

I am perfectly aware that C-14 forms up in the atmosphere and that the production of C-14 and its injection into the lower atmosphere varies with time including from the geomagnetic field *and* the solar cycle. So are the people who use it. C-14 dating is calibrated against other dating methods (tree rings, etc.). C-14 dating is *not* dependent on the knowledge of the production rate. Especially since we only have a decent clue about the production rate in the last 100 years or so.

The really wild answers arise from creatures that ingest carbon depleted of C-14, and similar issues *not* related to the atmospheric injection rate.