Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

[SelfSim]

That's something I really don't understand. The idea of existing for eternity is horrific. While I may want a few extra years in my life, at some stage I want the lights to go out.

All I can come up with is that the desire for it is a selfish, (or maybe a self-centered?), one!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's something I really don't understand. The idea of existing for eternity is horrific. While I may want a few extra years in my life, at some stage I want the lights to go out.

I believe there is a horrible punishment before one is finally erased from existence. Why would one want to go through all that for a season of sin? Also, existing forever is not existing forever in a sin filled world that you are familiar with. No doubt that is why you would find such an idea horrific. If you lived in a place that had no more pain, dying, and or sorrow it would be amazing. It would be a place of perfect peace, and joy. Who wouldn't want that?

 

[coffee4u]

... a disagreement over basic reality?

I find a lot of discussions with creationists seem to be boil down to disagreement over the nature of reality. And I'm not sure that there is a way to bridge such disagreement.

Of course it is.

An evolutionist sees creatures with similar structures and sees common decent.
A creationist sees creatures with similar structures and sees a creator who used similar structures for all-since why reinvent the wheel?

An evolutionist see a dating method as showing X takes y years and uses it to date backwards because in their world view the world they test now is the same as the world at the very beginning.
A creationist sees a dating method showing X years and knows it only shows how X works now because we know the world we have now is not the same as the world as it was at the beginning. It has gone through at least 2 changes and that nothing is known about the proprieties and levels of how it was when first created.

An evolutionist is dealing in tests and substances and mathematics and only allowing for natural scientific testing and reasoning.
A creationist is dealing with miracles, how sin came to be and God's word fitting together.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What's so desirable about 'Eternal Life'?
I don't really fear death as I go about my everyday activities, so why should I alter my thinking in the present, in order to accomodate something which is largely absent in my mind's present state?

There is punishment in hell and also possibly punishment in the Lake of Fire too for a time before one is erased from existence. So yeah, not sure why you would want to go through all that suffering and pain for no good reason. Surely a life of sin is not worth it. I am sure those who are in hell are not saying it was worth the life of sin that they lived. How do I know?

The rich man in hell said to Abraham across the great gulf:

“I pray thee therefore, father, that
thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
For I have five brethren;
that he may testify unto them,
lest they also come into this place of torment.”
(Luke 16:27-28).​

So as we can see, this place of torments was so bad for the rich man that he wanted to warn his family so as to avoid the place where he was at. If it wasn't all that bad, he wouldn't have worried about warning his family.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I believe there is a horrible punishment before one is finally erased from existence. Why would one want to go through all that for a season of sin? Also, existing forever is not existing forever in a sin filled world. No doubt that is why you would find such an idea horrific. If there was a place of no more pain, dying, and or sorrow it would be amazing.

I don't think you've ever really contemplated the true implications of eternity. Eternal existence would drive you insane. Is that what you really want? An eternity of insanity? You'd be begging for oblivion soon enough.

 

[dlamberth]

I disagree. If everything in your view has to follow scientific norms, there's no room for the multiple influences of the Spirit and the struggle between good and evil to have any effects on the nature of reality.

You may disagree, but there is a place where the physical and spiritual meet. Though it's not a place of duality between good and evil. It's a place of non-duality where all that exist is "experienced" as whole, united and One. There's a fair amount of work being done in this area.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

“We played the flute,
but you would not dance!
We sang a funeral song,
but you would not mourn!"
(Matthew 11:17).

Play the flute.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't think you've ever really contemplated the true implications of eternity. Eternal existence would drive you insane. Is that what you really want? An eternity of insanity? You'd be begging for oblivion soon enough.

So you have visited the future in God's perfect kingdom? You know what it is like to live for eternally in perfect happiness with God? You cannot knock that which you don't know about. I have heard people speak about the perils of marriage when I was growing up, and I was even warned not to get married because for them it was a living hell. For some, I imagine this may be so, but they obviously were never in a happy marriage before. Again, your perspective is only from a sin filled one that does not even have God in your life. Once you get a taste of God in your life, that is all you want. But again, you can judge that which you don't even know about. That to me is just silly.

Play the flute.
For either the flute is being played to you, or you are playing the flute.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That sounds fine, but I will continue to put my faith in Jesus instead.

I am talking about putting faith in the true Jesus of the Bible. Which Jesus are you talking about?

 

[dlamberth]

I am talking about putting faith in the true Jesus of the Bible. Which Jesus are you talking about?

I've always wondered what the true Jesus of the Bible is. Where I now come down to is how Hildegard of Bingen sees the essence of Christ which is as "Divine Compassion/Activated".

 

[Bungle_Bear]

So you have visited the future in God's perfect kingdom? You know what it is like to live for eternally in perfect happiness with God? You cannot knock that which you don't know about. I have heard people speak about the perils of marriage when I was growing up, and I was even warned not to get married because for them it was a living hell. For some, I imagine this may be so, but they obviously were never in a happy marriage before. Again, your perspective is only from a sin filled one that does not even have God in your life. Once you get a taste of God in your life, that is all you want. But again, you can judge that which you don't even know about. That to me is just silly.

Play the flute.
For either the flute is being played to you, or you are playing the flute.

As I said, I don't think you've contemplated the implications of eternity. Eternity isn't just a long time. Eternity never ends. It's a terrifying idea, which is why I suspect you've never really though about it.

 

[pescador]

"Know" in this context is still just synonymous for really believe.

Otherwise, we'd have an objective methodology to demonstrate the existence of something like the Holy Spirit. But since we don't...

Know, know means know. (As my mother used to say!)

There are many things yet undiscovered by an objective methodology to demonstrate the existence of something. Just because something can't be proven by the scientific method doesn't mean it's not true or doesn't exist.

Does God exist? Prove it! Does Jesus exist? Prove it. Does the Holy Spirit exist? Prove it. Do you exist?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've always wondered what the true Jesus of the Bible is. Where I now come down to is how Hildegard of Bingen sees the essence of Christ which is as "Divine Compassion/Activated".

Do you believe the Bible is the only source of truth about Jesus Christ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I said, I don't think you've contemplated the implications of eternity. Eternity isn't just a long time. Eternity never ends. It's a terrifying idea, which is why I suspect you've never really though about it.

What is so terrifying about living forever in eternal happiness with God and with one's potential family in Christ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't think you've ever really contemplated the true implications of eternity. Eternal existence would drive you insane. Is that what you really want? An eternity of insanity? You'd be begging for oblivion soon enough.

Surely things are not as you think they are. So are you willing to suffer in the torments of hell for a good amount of time before being erased from existence because you think you know what eternity in God's glorious kingdom is like without having been there? That makes no sense. But you are free to believe as you wish (of course). I am betting on God and not myself. I will trust God and not my own heart. God knows better than me. My maker knows better than I.

“For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” (Romans 8:18).

3 “And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.” (Revelation 21:3-5).

 

[dlamberth]

Do you believe the Bible is the only source of truth about Jesus Christ?

No.
Have you ever sat in the Heart of Christ to see what you see from that perspective?

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you believe the Bible is the only source of truth about Jesus Christ?

I think you're talking to a pantheist.

 

[renniks]

As I said, I don't think you've contemplated the implications of eternity. Eternity isn't just a long time. Eternity never ends. It's a terrifying idea, which is why I suspect you've never really though about it.

Why is that terrifying. Does endless joy terrify you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No.
Have you ever sat in the Heart of Christ to see what you see from that perspective?

Do you believe that reading the Bible can lead a person to Jesus Christ?
Do you like reading the Bible?
Do you believe the Bible is where we get our faith from?