Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

[dlamberth]

Cool.
Can you think of a broader way (ie: stance and method) of distinguishing reality than what I suggested in post #2, items (i) and (ii), then?

All I can say is that I do live in a world where the two options your gave ARE bridged.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

... a disagreement over basic reality?

I find a lot of discussions with creationists seem to be boil down to disagreement over the nature of reality. And I'm not sure that there is a way to bridge such disagreement.

The nature of reality is defined for us in the Bible. We know the Bible is true because there are crazy amounts of evidence backing it up to be the Word of God.

You can check out my Blogger Article here on the many evidences that back up God's Word.
Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

If you don't believe, take your chances and wait until judgment day. But in my view, that is too risky. Why take the gamble? Is sin for a season really worth it compared to eternity?

 

[Speedwell]

The nature of reality is defined for us in the Bible. We know the Bible is true because there are crazy amounts of evidence backing it up to be the Word of God.

You can check out my Blogger Article here on the many evidences that back up God's Word.
Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

If you don't believe, take your chances and wait until judgment day. But in my view, that is too risky. Why take the gamble? Is sin for a season really worth it compared to eternity?

That sounds fine, but I will continue to put my faith in Jesus instead.

 

[SelfSim]

No living human being, because we are bound to this physical world, can exist without a sense of reality around them. But our realities can be a bit different at some level. It's a consciousnesses thing.

Well then doesn't all that tell you that our descriptions of reality are bound to, (or a function of), our own consciousness?

Mystics, for example, can be aware of things you or I might not be opened up to.

Yep .. that's demonstrably, just their preference for a particular style of perception (or a mind model).

 

[SelfSim]

Ask God!
..
Believe me, if it's the Holy Spirit "telling" you the truth you will know it.

Well I notice I'll have to believe you, in order to 'get' that!
I'll choose my option (i) though and so I'd prefer to test it out so I can get to it for myself.

 

[SelfSim]

All I can say is that I do live in a world where the two options your gave ARE bridged.

Yes .. they are bridged by way of your belief.
They are also 'bridged' for me too .. by the way of objective testing and results .. and the simple observation that my mind, (or consciousness), leaves its fingerprints (objective evidence) all over the place, in doing that.

 

[pescador]

Well I notice I'll have to believe you, in order to 'get' that!
I'll choose my option (i) though and so I'd prefer to test it out so I can get to it for myself.

Go for it! I don't think the HS cares just how He comes to you.

 

[pescador]

What you are suggesting involves belief in the Holy Spirit.

You don't have to "believe in the Holy Spirit" any more than you have to believe that you're alive. Either you know or you don't.

 

[SelfSim]

If you don't believe, take your chances and wait until judgment day. But in my view, that is too risky. Why take the gamble?

So you have acquiesced to your perceived threats (and beliefs) and given up the stuggle to acquire objective knowledge through learning, then?

 

[SelfSim]

Go for it! I don't think the HS cares just how He comes to you.

Probably not .. (but I do).

 

[pescador]

Probably not .. (but I do).

Why? What are your concerns? Maybe I or somebody else can help you.

 

[pescador]

So you have acquiesced to your perceived threats (and beliefs) and given up the stuggle to acquire objective knowledge through learning, then?

Is that what your humanist philosophy teaches you? Are you implying that Christians who have faith are ignorant?

BTW, I have a Master's degree and rank in the top 1% of general intelligence. It's sad that you think you must be ignorant to understand God's truth.

 

[SelfSim]

Is that what your humanist philosophy teaches you? Are you implying that Christians who have faith are ignorant?

No .. I'm just following your reasoning there (it was just a question).. ie: you appear to be stopped because you believe there's too much risk and you believe there's a 'judgement day'. Those beliefs therefore curtail your learning and acquisition of the possibility of knowledge other than where those beliefs take you(?)
(Another question there).

PS: I guess we're all ignorant in many areas, anyway .. Oh and Humanism (whatever that is) is not what motivates me .. Humanism for me, is just a conclusion from scientific testing.

BTW, I have a Master's degree and rank in the top 1% of general intelligence.

Its sad, to me, that you think I could even care about that(?)

It's sad that you think you must be ignorant to understand God's truth.

I don't have a clue for what you mean there .. by 'God's truth'.
If I ask you, all I'll see is your mind at work in coming up with your description of what that means .. ie: its your description .. albeit, using our (English) words to convey your meaning to me in such a way that I then can acquire an understanding (and knowledge).
That latter process, is also how we give meaning to our concept of 'reality' .. same goes for all our concepts.

 

[renniks]

Reality from a spiritual perspective is relative. I'm quite certain that by comparison your view of reality is bound to a very narrow view compared to the reality I live in.

I disagree. If everything in your view has to follow scientific norms, there's no room for the multiple influences of the Spirit and the struggle between good and evil to have any effects on the nature of reality.

 

[pitabread]

If you don't believe, take your chances and wait until judgment day. But in my view, that is too risky. Why take the gamble? Is sin for a season really worth it compared to eternity?

Congratulations, you've just reduced thousands of years of Christian theology down to an insurance policy.

 

[pitabread]

You don't have to "believe in the Holy Spirit" any more than you have to believe that you're alive. Either you know or you don't.

"Know" in this context is still just synonymous for really believe.

Otherwise, we'd have an objective methodology to demonstrate the existence of something like the Holy Spirit. But since we don't...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Congratulations, you've just reduced thousands of years of Christian theology down to an insurance policy.

The core of Christianity at it's heart is having a relationship with Jesus Christ and abiding in Him, and His words (according to the Holy Bible). By doing so... it is an insurance of eternal life (i.e. an insurance policy). For God's insurance policy is so much better than an earthly insurance policy. You are in better hands with God's insurance policy (the Bible) than any other. For this world and it's promises will fade away, but God's promises will last for all time.

 

[SelfSim]

You don't have to "believe in the Holy Spirit" any more than you have to believe that you're alive. Either you know or you don't.

The belief is completely irrelevent in scientific thinking. But there are objective tests to determine whether someone is alive or not (ie: no belief is therefore necessary).
The test results then establish the 'truth' of the objective reality as to whether someone is alive, or not alive.

 

[SelfSim]

The core of Christianity at it's heart is having a relationship with Jesus Christ and abiding in Him, and His words (according to the Holy Bible). By doing so... it is an insurance of eternal life (i.e. an insurance policy). For God's insurance policy is so much better than an earthly insurance policy. You are in better hands with God's insurance policy (the Bible) than anything else.

What's so desirable about 'Eternal Life'?
I don't really fear death as I go about my everyday activities, so why should I alter my thinking in the present, in order to accomodate something which is largely absent in my mind's present state?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

What's so desirable about 'Eternal Life'?

That's something I really don't understand. The idea of existing for eternity is horrific. While I may want a few extra years in my life, at some stage I want the lights to go out.