Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

Blood Bought 1953 · Feb 24, 2018

Faith in the Shed Blood of Christ,or an animal sacrifice that pointed toward Him which was an act of faith were sufficient to save

Haipule · Feb 24, 2018

genez said:
When you teach something about the Scripture you cite.... be it poorly done, or well done. It is a form of theological action taking place.

It is the Book for Theology!

the·ol·o·gy
THēˈäləjē/
noun
noun: theology
the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Agreed!

Yet, can you accept the theology of a Pentecostal who so says that, "these thing are only 'Spiritually' discerned and you are too fleshly and 'spiritually' deficient to understand Scripture?"

Since all Scripture is only 'spiritually' discerned? And that, you MUST be too fleshly? Because you don't speak in tongues?

Do you believe that bold faced lie? Is it a lie?

Haipule · Feb 24, 2018

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Faith in the Shed Blood of Christ,or an animal sacrifice that pointed toward Him which was an act of faith were sufficient to save

NO! Faith is what you trust for life. "Salvation" is your entire life or, should be! Did, somehow, God exclude anyone's trustworthiness? Did God Himself exclude anyone's trust in Him for life? Of course it's all "grace" right? Certainly, God just picked Noah by "grace" right?

I DO NOT 'believe' in Jesus! I trust Him in every breath of life that I have been called to breath and live in!!! He IS the way, the truth and the life! Did I tell you a lie?

I DO NOT believe in Jesus Who is God! I only trust in God, and my God given life that has been well lived! Because, it is His glory which I do not hide under a peck measure!

If that is not true than, I'm a financial genius!

Stay shiny my friend!

Blood Bought 1953 · Feb 24, 2018

Haipule said:
NO! Faith is what you trust for life. "Salvation" is your entire life or, should be! Did, somehow, God exclude anyone's trustworthiness? Did God Himself exclude anyone's trust in Him for life? Of course it's all "grace" right? Certainly, God just picked Noah by "grace" right?

I DO NOT 'believe' in Jesus! I trust Him in every breath of life that I have been called to breath and live in!!! He IS the way, the truth and the life! Did I tell you a lie?

I DO NOT believe in Jesus! I only trust in my God given life that has been well lived! Because, it is His glory which I do not hide under a peck measure!

If that is not true than, I'm a financial genius!

Stay shiny my friend!

Let’s cut to the chase....you and I are going to be judged by
Paul’s Gospel found in 1cor15:1-4. Do you believe it?

GenemZ · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
Agreed!

Yet, can you accept the theology of a Pentecostal who so says that, "these thing are only 'Spiritually' discerned and you are too fleshly and 'spiritually' deficient to understand Scripture?"

Since all Scripture is only 'spiritually' discerned? And that, you MUST be too fleshly? Because you don't speak in tongues?

Do you believe that bold faced lie? Is it a lie?

The real problem the Pentecostal has is when someone is spiritually discerning him for what he is... there's the irony.

GenemZ · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
NO! Faith is what you trust for life. "Salvation" is your entire life or, should be! Did, somehow, God exclude anyone's trustworthiness? Did God Himself exclude anyone's trust in Him for life? Of course it's all "grace" right? Certainly, God just picked Noah by "grace" right?

I DO NOT 'believe' in Jesus! I trust Him in every breath of life that I have been called to breath and live in!!! He IS the way, the truth and the life! Did I tell you a lie?

I DO NOT believe in Jesus Who is God! I only trust in God, and my God given life that has been well lived! Because, it is His glory which I do not hide under a peck measure!

If that is not true than, I'm a financial genius!

Stay shiny my friend!

Obfuscation seems to be your hobby....

Haipule · Feb 25, 2018

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Let’s cut to the chase....you and I are going to be judged by
Paul’s Gospel found in 1cor15:1-4. Do you believe it?

You've got to be kidding right?

GenemZ · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
You've got to be kidding right?

Some people read us wrong and it requires clarification. Its nothing personal.

Haipule · Feb 25, 2018

genez said:
Obfuscation seems to be your hobby....

Ouch! That hurt you know!

I know that it appears that way but actually, I'm trying to be useful.

I have spent my whole life studying the Biblical Greek. I have been translating for years. However, when I see a word or passage being manipulated by a translator to support erroneous theology, my red flags go up and I show the actual autographed grammatical inflection which looks to many as obfuscation.

Truly, Greek is a precision Swiss watch and English is a sundial at night! When I translate, I translate according to Greek language thinking skills including proper declension, conjugation, word order which may also look like obfuscation but actually, it is the God-breathed Word of God as it was actually written by the authors. IT IS AWESOME!

GenemZ · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
Ouch! That hurt you know!

I now that it appears that way but actually, I'm trying to be useful.

I have spent my whole life studying the Biblical Greek. I have been translating for years. However, when I see a word or passage being manipulated by a translator to support erroneous theology, my red flags go up and I show the actual autographed grammatical inflection which looks to many as obfuscation.

Truly, Greek is a precision Swiss watch and English is a sundial at night! When I translate, I translate according to Greek language thinking skills including proper declension, conjugation, word order which may also look like obfuscation but actually, it is the God-breathed Word of God as it was actually written by the authors. IT IS AWESOME!

I know all about the Greek texts..... But, you got to know when its over reaching the ears of those who have not yet been exposed.

I have been taught straight from the Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, and Chaldean texts (book of Daniel) for about 40 years.

Take a peek here, please... R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries Home

Haipule · Feb 25, 2018

genez said:
Obfuscation seems to be your hobby....

Here is an example of how I attempt to bring clarity to the Word but, may appear as obfuscation:

The adjective christos(it is NOT a noun) is usually transliterated as "Christ" with a capital "C". Yet, then it is not translated for you.

christos means: anointed. Figuratively, anointed means we have been given a destiny and purpose.

The adjective is applied to Jesus--Yeshua--because His name in Greek is iEsous which was a popular name. The Greek name for the OT hero Joshua is the same spelling. So, which Joshua are we talking about? The anointed one. It is sometimes used as a substantive appellative as in 'Anointed-One'.

The authors teachings on the subject are then obscured by the transliteration "Christ". What we are missing is the authors teaching about our anointing which christos often refers to in context.

John said, "the anointing which you-all know". Sorry Johnny-Boy but, no we don't!

Besides us and Jesus, other things are also anointed with a given destiny and purpose such as the Word of God:

Anointed Word

But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down--what?), or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead--you’ve got to be kidding!)." Rom 10:6-7 NASB (all parenthesis’, as punctuation marks, were added by editors and/or translators)

Rather, Hyper-literal(same verse): Yet thee out-from(source) of-trust righteousness(feminine) thusly she-is-speaking: “NO YOU-MIGHT-SAY, IN THE HEART OF-YOU, ANY-ONE? HE-SHALL(in the future, acting upon himself)-UP-STEP INTO THE SKY”, this-thing(neuter, refers to the gramma--written word, which is a neuter noun, as Paul is quoting Moses’ writing) it-is christos-anointed to-lead-down*, or “ANY-ONE? HE-SHALL(in the future, acting upon himself)-DOWN-STEP INTO THE (sea without bottom)ABYSS”, this-thing it-is christos-anointed, out-from of-dead-ones(people whose dysfunctional lives are described as dead), to-lead-up*. Rom 10:6-7

Yet, Paul’s Romans 10:6-8 is a quote of Moses in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 which says in the NASB:

"For this commandment(instruction) which I command you(instruct of you) today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Doesn't it make way more sense now?

Warning: the subject of christos is vast and exciting!

Blood Bought 1953 · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
You've got to be kidding right?

Of course I a man not kîdding.....why would you think so ?
I am not a Greek scholar,but I know a verse of Scripture that will save me when I see it.How does an an expert in Greek interpret 1cor15:1-4?

Haipule · Feb 25, 2018

genez said:
I know all about the Greek texts..... But, you got to know when its over reaching the ears of those who have not yet been exposed.

I have been taught straight from the Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, and Chaldean texts (book of Daniel) for about 40 years.

Take a peek here, please... R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries Home

I could tell by your vocabulary that you have studied under the Colonel. Me too.

I am 58 and started reading Thieme books at 13. My step-father is a PT who has studied under Thieme, and now III, since 1966.

I have also studied the teaching of Joe Griffin, Ollie Siemens, the late Thomas Tyree and at one time attended Robert McLaughlin's church in Somerset MA.

That upbringing gave me lots of exposure to the Greek language. So, from the beginning I was already very familiar with grammatical terms such as the aorist tense and middle voice, etc. Thank God!

My step-father bought me all the Greek language books and told me to study it as I was asking too many questions! It's not my fault! But, I LOVE IT!

Haipule · Feb 25, 2018

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Of course I a man not kîdding.....why would you think so ?
I am not a Greek scholar,but I know a verse of Scripture that will save me when I see it.How does an an expert in Greek interpret 1cor15:1-4?

I do not interpret Scripture. The KoinE Greek autographed language of the bible needs no interpretation as it interprets itself just fine. I am not a scholar as I am completely self taught. IOW's, I didn't go to college to learn this stuff which my pastor-teacher step-father, who did go to seminary school, assures me is a benefit.

So, I can show you exactly what it says using perfect Greek grammatical inflection. My focus is on the grammar not just the words. In fact, I translate the grammar before I assign a meaning to the word given from lexicon(Greek to English dictionary) writers such as Strong or Thayer.

Because the meaning of words in a lexicon also depends on the words grammatical context. For instance:

The lexical form(the word as you will find it in a lexicon) of the word translated for us as "Lord" is kurios. kurios is in the nominative case(the subject of the sentence). kurion is in the accusative case(the case of the direct object of the verb). kuriou is in the genitive case(establishes a relationship usually of possession or source). kuriO is in the dative case(the case of the indirect object of the verb and also establishes a relationship usually of location) kurie is in the vocative case(the case of direct address such as to call someone "Lord"). Yet, you will only find kurios in a lexicon so it is up to us to understand the form it is written in. This is called "declension". So, we need to decline the noun before we translate it whether Lord(nominative), <Lord(accusative), of-Lord(genitive), to-Lord(dative), Lord!(vocative).

The same is true for verbs but is far more complicated as verbs have a tense, mood, voice and number(which English does not have).

All Greek words have a root with alphabet soup prefixed or suffixed to the root. The alphabet soup is the grammatical inflection. So, it is impossible to screw it up unless that is your intent as a translator to screw it up so they can teach erroneous theology. I believe me, like Felix the Cat, do they have a bag of tricks they learned in college to manipulate Scripture with high sounding names!

To be perfectly honest with you, every book entitled, "How to Translate Biblical Greek" should all be retitled, "How to manipulate the Scriptures to make them say any damned thing you want!" I am not kidding!

I will translate the verses in question for you on another post.

GenemZ · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
I do not interpret Scripture. The KoinE Greek autographed language of the bible needs no interpretation as it interprets itself just fine. I am not a scholar as I am completely self taught. IOW's, I didn't go to college to learn this stuff which my pastor-teacher step-father, who did go to seminary school, assures me is a benefit.

So, I can show you exactly what it says using perfect Greek grammatical inflection. My focus is on the grammar not just the words. In fact, I translate the grammar before I assign a meaning to the word given from lexicon(Greek to English dictionary) writers such as Strong or Thayer.

Because the meaning of words in a lexicon also depends on the words grammatical context. For instance:

The lexical form(the word as you will find it in a lexicon) of the word translated for us as "Lord" is kurios. kurios is in the nominative case(the subject of the sentence). kurion is in the accusative case(the case of the direct object of the verb). kuriou is in the genitive case(establishes a relationship usually of possession or source). kuriO is in the dative case(the case of the indirect object of the verb and also establishes a relationship usually of location) kurie is in the vocative case(the case of direct address such as to call someone "Lord"). Yet, you will only find kurios in a lexicon so it is up to us to understand the form it is written in. This is called "declension". So, we need to decline the noun before we translate it whether Lord(nominative), <Lord(accusative), of-Lord(genitive), to-Lord(dative), Lord!(vocative).

The same is true for verbs but is far more complicated as verbs have a tense, mood, voice and number(which English does not have).

All Greek words have a root with alphabet soup prefixed or suffixed to the root. The alphabet soup is the grammatical inflection. So, it is impossible to screw it up unless that is your intent as a translator to screw it up so they can teach erroneous theology. I believe me, like Felix the Cat, do they have a bag of tricks they learned in college to manipulate Scripture with high sounding names!

To be perfectly honest with you, every book entitled, "How to Translate Biblical Greek" should all be retitled, "How to manipulate the Scriptures to make them say any damned thing you want!" I am not kidding!

I will translate the verses in question for you on another post.

Understood...

But... we are now in a thread titled:

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

(That does not translate into...)

Here is your soapbox. Jump on!

I appreciate what you are saying, but you are peeing off a subway train. (wrong place)... its for another thread.

I have been in Bob McLaughlin's church as well. Visited a few times.

Radagast · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
Here is an example of how I attempt to bring clarity to the Word but, may appear as obfuscation:

The adjective christos(it is NOT a noun) is usually transliterated as "Christ" with a capital "C".

It is in fact a noun, meaning "The Anointed One" or "The Messiah."

GenemZ · Feb 25, 2018

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

GenemZ · Feb 25, 2018

Haipule said:
The adjective christos(it is NOT a noun) is usually transliterated as "Christ" with a capital "C". Yet, then it is not translated for you.

christos means: anointed. Figuratively, anointed means we have been given a destiny and purpose.

The adjective is applied to Jesus--Yeshua--because His name in Greek is iEsous which was a popular name. The Greek name for the OT hero Joshua is the same spelling. So, which Joshua are we talking about? The anointed one. It is sometimes used as a substantive appellative as in 'Anointed-One'.

The authors teachings on the subject are then obscured by the transliteration "Christ". What we are missing is the authors teaching about our anointing which christos often refers to in context.

John said, "the anointing which you-all know". Sorry Johnny-Boy but, no we don't!

Let me get your drift here, please. Are you saying? When John spoke of the anointing we all know? He was specifically speaking of the Christ we all know?

Haipule · Feb 25, 2018

genez said:
Let me get your drift here, please. Are you saying? When John spoke of the anointing we all know? He was specifically speaking of the Christ we all know?

No, he was speaking of our anointing.

Haipule · Feb 25, 2018

Radagast said:
It is in fact a noun, meaning "The Anointed One" or "The Messiah."

christos is an adjective declined just like the adjective agathos which means: good.

Some lexicons list it as a noun and some as an adjective. scripture4all lists it as a noun and blueletterbible list it as an adjective.

I settled the argument for myself when I called a Jewish Community Center in Palm Beach county, FL. I asked them if the word mashiyach translated "Messiah" in the book of Daniel was a noun or an adjective. They assured me it was an adjective and means anointed. Bingo!

It is sometimes used predicately and sometimes attributively so if it walks and quacks like a duck...

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

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