Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

[Albion]

t.ca

And I didn't mean to offend, I wasn't accusing you of those heresies, but your clear rejection of the validity of sacred tradition ( and I'm not talking about the RCC's spin on it but the entire concept), means you reject the theological traditions laid down by the councils and the work of the Holy Spirit through the church.

The councils are not the equal of God, but where they agreed with Scripture, I am supportive.

and

the second of those two accusations is just uncalled for.

I disagree with the theory of "Holy Tradition" because 1) it is manmade and 2) no one knows what constitutes "Holy Tradition" anyway.

Each church body that claims to follow Holy Tradition has made its own selections from the mass of customs, speculation, or legends that can be found somewhere in church history. That is not to say that each interprets the same body of opinion differently, but that each one makes its own decision about what is from "Holy Tradition."

Surely, the word of God is to be preferred over that because it is timeless and--it is, as every church affirms, from GOD, not man thinking about God!

 

[☦Marius☦]

t.ca
The councils are not the equal of God, but where they agreed with Scripture, I am supportive.

and

the second of those two accusations is just uncalled for.

I disagree with the theory of "Holy Tradition" because 1) it is manmade and 2) no one knows what constitutes "Holy Tradition" anyway.

Each church body that claims to follow Holy Tradition has made its own selections from the mass of customs, speculation, or legends that can be found somewhere in church history. That is not to say that each interprets the same body of opinion differently, but that each one makes its own decision about what is from "Holy Tradition."

Surely, the word of God is to be preferred over that because it is timeless and--it is, as every church affirms, from GOD, not man thinking about God!

You say the councils are not the equal of God. God directly influenced the councils, just as he influenced those writing scripture. One is just as valid as the other. Both scripture and the councils were done through the influence of the Holy Spirit.

And

"So then, brothers, stand firm, and cling to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter. 2 Thessalonians 2:15"

"Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 2 Thessalonians 3:6"

"Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 1 Corinthians 11:2"

"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. John 21:25"

"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.John 20:30-31"

"And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea. Colossians 4:16 (The "epistle from Laodicea" is not available to us today is written form.)"

While the OT which is actually the "scripture" referred to in most of the Bible is infallible, the NT is a collection of letters and works by the apostles selected and made available through *gasp* Holy Tradition. Scripture is part of Holy Tradition, the two are inseparable. And we do make a distinction between Tradition and tradition in the OC.

The only things you have to accept to be EO are the Nicene Creed, and the Canons of the councils.

 

[Albion]

You say the councils are not the equal of God. God directly influenced the councils, just as he influenced those writing scripture. One is just as valid as the other. Both scripture and the councils were done through the influence of the Holy Spirit.

I agree that that is the position your church takes.

 

[☦Marius☦]

I agree that that is the position your church takes.

Because we believe that Christ is actively present in the entire church. It's his church, and he said it would never fall.

 

[Albion]

Because we believe that Christ is actively present in the entire church. It's his church, and he said it would never fall.

Well, he didn't say either of those things, but I know where you're coming from. I still think that it's obvious that no other source can top or equal divine revelation when it comes to the church setting doctrine.

 

[☦Marius☦]

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

[☦Marius☦]

Well, he didn't say either of those things, but I know where you're coming from. I still think that it's obvious that no other source can top or equal divine revelation when it comes to the church setting doctrine.

of course! (second part) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2 Timothy 3:16

 

[Albion]

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

and you think he was referring to some particular denomination there? I do not.

 

[☦Marius☦]

and you think he was referring to some particular denomination there? I do not.

The Orthodox Church is not a "denomination". This is why the RCC and EOC focus on historical succession. There has only ever been one church. The rest are just attempts to recreate or invent.

At that moment the church was founded, and the apostles went and formed the basis of the Catholic Orthodox Church (proto orthodox), and later when the Catholics put a man in charge instead of Christ, the Orthodox Church became THE church.

 

[GenemZ]

Sola Scriptura means that nothing outside the Bible is valid or needed for a Christian's life.

Sola Scriptura means everything, be it even a tradition, must be in agreement with Scripture.

The Scriptures content in what they cover is greatly more vast than many realize. And, when having only a truncated understanding of the Word of God? Men will try to find their own ways to fill in for their emptiness by making stuff up... An emptiness that only sound doctrinal thinking can be satisfied by.

Sola Scriptura means the only standard to refer to to decide what is right, be it thought or deed, must find its approval by searching/knowing the Scriptures as a way of life. Too many though, hold to a superficial interpretation, and end up being pseudo Sola Scriptura types.

Such is life..

 

[GenemZ]

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Peter is the equivalent to the use of the name "Rocky" today. He was not the Rock Jesus spoke of. Stone and rock are two different words. Jesus was referring to two different Greek words. One was the Rock. The other was a chip off the Rock, a stone. Peter was only a stone. The other word was a Rock.


This is the rock on which Jesus would build his church!

Matthew 16:17

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not
revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."

The Rock is the phenomena that God causes. Upon God making us able to know Jesus is the Christ, He will build His Church! The act of God within a person causing him to know Christ! Build up His church which stands upon the Rock of Salvation! Making us as living stones - The very building material to build upon the Rock! We all become Peters =stones.


1 Peter 2:4-5

And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men,
but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones,
are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer
up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."


Anyone who believes in Jesus will be believing in the same way Peter did! We are each a "Rocky." Because it has to be reveled to us about Jesus to us by God in Heaven! Just like it happened with Peter.

"Truly he is my rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will not be shaken." Psalm 62:6​

That action of God turned Cephas into Peter (Rocky). The Rock of Salvation is the Rock that God would have His church built upon!

​

 

[☦Marius☦]

Peter is the equivalent to the use of the name "Rocky" today. He was not the Rock Jesus spoke of. Stone and rock are two different words. Jesus was referring to two different Greek words. One was the Rock. The other was a chip off the Rock, a stone. Peter was only a stone. The other word was a Rock.


This is the rock on which Jesus would build his church!

Matthew 16:17

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not
revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."

The Rock is the phenomena that God causes. Upon God making us able to know Jesus is the Christ, He will build His Church! The act of God within a person causing him to know Christ! Build up His church which stands upon the Rock of Salvation! Making us as living stones - The very building material to build upon the Rock! We all become Peters =stones.


1 Peter 2:4-5

And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men,
but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones,
are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer
up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."


Anyone who believes in Jesus will be believing in the same way Peter did! We are each a "Rocky." Because it has to be reveled to us about Jesus to us by God in Heaven! Just like it happened with Peter.

"Truly he is my rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will not be shaken." Psalm 62:6​

That action of God turned Cephas into Peter (Rocky). The Rock of Salvation is the Rock that God would have His church built upon!

​

I am not Roman Catholic so I'm not sure how this is relevant. I was referring to the second part of the verse. Faith was the rock on which Christ was to build his church.

 

[GenemZ]

I am not Roman Catholic so I'm not sure how this is relevant. I was referring to the second part of the verse. Faith was the rock on which Christ was to build his church.

And, Jesus was pointing to Peter as an example of this faith being manifested. The other disciples were listening to the conversation between the Lord and Peter. The Lord renamed Cephas to Peter (Rocky).... and as Peter stood there Jesus was teaching that upon this example (Peter) I will build my church. Upon the Father drawing a soul into relationship with Christ. Not by works which the Jews were being inundated with by the evil Pharisaical system which only promised salvation.

Its upon this rock! (that the Father reveals who the Son is) Not by works! I will build my Church!

 

[☦Marius☦]

And, Jesus was pointing to Peter as an example of this faith being manifested. The other disciples were listening to the conversation between the Lord and Peter. The Lord renamed Cephas to Peter (Rocky).... and as Peter stood there Jesus was teaching that upon this example (Peter) I will build my church. Upon the Father drawing a soul into relationship with Christ. Not by works which the Jews were being inundated with by the evil Pharisaical system which only promised salvation.

Its upon this rock! (that the Father reveals who the Son is) Not by works! I will build my Church!

Point?

 

[GenemZ]

Point?

There never is one...

 

[Abraxos]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find?

Yes.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes.

Luther was not what we now call Lutheranism. Its degenerated into mediocrity. Luther was actually an independent teacher who had the capacity to exegete the Word of God in a fantastic way. It was his grasp of the original languages that God used in Luther to break away from the apostasy of the RCC. The RCC in its beginning began as Luther had become... and over time it degenerated into interjecting paganism and weirdness into its teachings.

The teaching of the Word of God can not be institutionalized and regulated by others.

Denomination = Demon nation. (divide and conquer)

Such regulation works its way in when the Devil gets in and begins his work of perverting the way for the Christian way of life. Luther was a great pioneer. The settlers that came in after him created a nice city that later became a spiritual ghetto through spiritual apathy.

We need for each generation fresh sound teachings that will supply the spiritual nutrition for the specific needs for each given generation.... or, the believers will perish, while having fat bellies, but yet being malnourished. Obese and sick. That is why those who lock themselves tightly into some denominational fortress end up becoming "fat headed."

 

[Albion]

The Orthodox Church is not a "denomination". This is why the RCC and EOC focus on historical succession. There has only ever been one church. The rest are just attempts to recreate or invent.

At that moment the church was founded, and the apostles went and formed the basis of the Catholic Orthodox Church (proto orthodox), and later when the Catholics put a man in charge instead of Christ, the Orthodox Church became THE church.

If you adopt that theory of history, you must know that almost all the denominations (or communions or church bodies, or whatever term you prefer) can make the same claim for themselves...and it then becomes only a question of which segment of the body of Christ has all the doctrines and practices correct.

 

[GenemZ]

If you adopt that theory of history, you must know that almost all the denominations (or communions or church bodies, or whatever term you prefer) can make the same claim for themselves...and it then becomes only a question of which segment of the body of Christ has all the doctrines and practices correct.

All do claim for themselves. And, they will contradict other denominations..... Come back a hundred years? And, they will still be locked into their own errors. That can not cause spiritual growth. Satan has sent them out onto reservations. Only those who overcome with an ongoing and ever growing discovery of Truth that is buried treasures in the Scriptures will cross over the victory line for their given time in history. Everything else is wood, hay, and stubble.

My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love,
so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in
order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in
whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding
arguments." Col 2:2-4​

In Christ are hidden... buried in Scripture to be dug out... all treasures of wisdom and KNOWLEDGE!

In Christ its all hidden? Where?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. Jn 1:1
​

Jesus walked the earth as the full embodiment of all the Scriptures ever to be made known. He overcame the world by knowledge and spiritual power in the Holy Spirit. The temptation of Christ all pivoted around Scripture knowledge. The Pharisees were a denomination filled with traditions and rituals that would not budge.

 

[RgM3]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

The curse that is upon all the earth is behind it.