Is it sinful to have a Homosexual Orientation?

[Quartermaine]

No. However, it is important to understand there is no such thing as homosexuality if you are a Christian - which is why the Most High God said it is "abominable" (meaning culturally nasty or wrong). Why? Because we all know the design is for male and woman - sex is defined between these two under the Most High God.

God also called tattoo's, incense and shaving the same thing

It is a combination of factors: spiritual, environmental, chemical and psychological. In other words, it is the result of sin.

any evidence to back any of this up?

 

[Kaon]

God also called tattoo's, incense and shaving the same thing

Yes, it is literally nasty, and culturally inappropriate for Hebrews to mark themselves with ink that penetrates the skin and remains in the body. We think its cool, but the Most High God is not concerned with what looks trendy according to the rest of the world. He is concerned with raising Sons of the Most High God - holy people. When you get a tattoo, you are polluting your blood (especially back in the times of Moses).

Isaiah 1 (my FAVORITE chapter in the bible) does not say incense is an abomination, the Most High God is specifically saying that because Israel had forgotten His Law, and made His practices abominable, He no longer wanted VAIN OBLATIONS: That meant burning incense was automatically an abomination since it was not for the Most High God. The context is the vanity of our offering - not an invalidation of everything. (The Most High God isn't damning New Moons, for example).

As for shaving, since the Hebrews likely had coarse hair (sheep's wool), if an Hebrew shaved his face, he would likely get folliculitis. If you know what that is, you know it never actually goes away for ethnic men with coarse hair, and it can be nasty unless proper care is given. All the Hebrews had to do was listen to the Most High God - not disobey him and learn later through medicine. (This is also related to cutting the bowls of the head - it is nasty and culturally inappropriate for the design of the Hebrew.)

any evidence to back any of this up?

Sure, but what evidence will satisfy you? I am not posting a research paper just for you to reject it as non-substantive for not fitting your personal reality bubble - it happens all the time on here. So, tell me what evidence will satisfy you and I will give it to you.

For example, will independent medical journals from other countries work?

What type of multimedia do you prefer (pictures/instagram, youtube, twitter, etc.)

What about my own presentation (which you may be able to verify for yourself, or can go to your local University or college to verify)?

What if I, myself had homosexual attraction for several decades - is a lifetime existing as the subject of the OP enough evidence for you?

Or, what about declassified files?

Magic(k)? (I am being very serious)

You bound the type of evidence you 1) believe in, and 2) trust, and I will find you evidence from the vat of your choosing. No offense to you personally, or in relation to your post - just a precaution I have to take on here.

 

[Quartermaine]

Sure, but what evidence will satisfy you?

how about actual evidence?

I am not posting a research paper just for you to reject it as non-substantive for not fitting your personal reality bubble - it happens all the time on here. So, tell me what evidence will satisfy you and I will give it to you.

you have actual peer reviewed published research actually demonstrating that homosexuality is the result of spiritual factors?

For example, will independent medical journals from other countries work?

What type of multimedia do you prefer (pictures/instagram, youtube, twitter, etc.)

What about my own presentation (which you may be able to verify for yourself, or can go to your local University or college to verify)?

What if I, myself had homosexual attraction for several decades - is a lifetime existing as the subject of the OP enough evidence for you?

Or, what about declassified files?

Magic(k)? (I am being very serious)

You bound the type of evidence you 1) believe in, and 2) trust, and I will find you evidence from the vat of your choosing. No offense to you personally, or in relation to your post - just a precaution I have to take on here.

so is this a no you don't have any evidence to back that claim up?

 

[Daniel C]

how about actual evidence?

you have actual peer reviewed published research actually demonstrating that homosexuality is the result of spiritual factors?

so is this a no you don't have any evidence to back that claim up?

Prove that spiritual realm is NOT responsible. You can't. It can't be proven using your method one way or the other-because it's the spiritual realm.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?

I don’t think it’s sinful to find another man attractive any more than it is sinful to find a woman attractive. It becomes sin when we indulge in thoughts of lust. This doesn’t mean that we sin if a thought pops into our head of lust. This happens all the time to just about everyone. It becomes sinful when we entertain these thoughts and especially if we act on them. If we dismiss them immediately then it is not a sin.

 

[Kaon]

how about actual evidence?

you have actual peer reviewed published research actually demonstrating that homosexuality is the result of spiritual factors?

so is this a no you don't have any evidence to back that claim up?

Now you aren't being serious.

What peer-reviewed published research is going to vindicate anything spiritual? That is not the job of academia.

I am not looking to argue in usual CF style (back and forth ignorance until the thread gets shut down). This is why I did not give you evidence when you asked for it - when someone on CF asks for evidence, they want someone to do all of the academic/research work, and then reject it if they don't feel like it satisfies them.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think you have extreme views that are very disturbing. I can’t imagine how dreadful it would be if you had a son who was gay and you could only be radical and like a black & white text book towards him !

Ahh I see, your not looking for answers to your questions your only here to attack Christian beliefs. Why ask questions you already know the answer to only to attack those who give you the answers your expecting to hear? Don’t expect those who serve God to bend His rules to suit what you think is permissible and your implications on how this person would react to a homosexual loved one are completely unwarranted. They’re based on nothing more than assumptions without the proper incite to make any kind of educated assessment.

 

[Tolworth John]

I'm sure female prisoners of war felt very protected

Better than being slaughtered.
Life was brutal back then and unlike islamic sexslaves they could not be passed from man to man but were part of one family.

 

[Quartermaine]

Prove that spiritual realm is NOT responsible. You can't. It can't be proven using your method one way or the other-because it's the spiritual realm.

Shifting the burden of proof. The claim is that there is actual research based evidence but so far....we haven't seen any

 

[Quartermaine]

Now you aren't being serious.

What peer-reviewed published research is going to vindicate anything spiritual? That is not the job of academia.

I am not looking to argue in usual CF style (back and forth ignorance until the thread gets shut down). This is why I did not give you evidence when you asked for it - when someone on CF asks for evidence, they want someone to do all of the academic/research work, and then reject it if they don't feel like it satisfies them.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

I was looking for you to back up your claim.

if you are going to claim you have actual evidence then you should expect people to ask to see that evidence.

 

[Quartermaine]

Better than being slaughtered.
Life was brutal back then and unlike islamic sexslaves they could not be passed from man to man but were part of one family.

kind of presumptuous on your part. Do you really think that young girls were supposed to he happy that the men who murdered her entire family were now raping her?

 

[Daniel C]

Shifting the burden of proof. The claim is that there is actual research based evidence but so far....we haven't seen any

I never claimed such a thing.

 

[Kaon]

I was looking for you to back up your claim.

if you are going to claim you have actual evidence then you should expect people to ask to see that evidence.

I expect people to ask for evidence that is realistic and appropriate. You asked me to give you peer-reviewed published research to prove the spiritual influence of homosexuality, while completely ignoring academia does not deal with spirituality. There should be no peer review published research that refutes or confirms the spiritual realm in a serious matter. Spirituality is not academic.

But that doesn't matter to you; you want an argument. The parameters don't matter, because if they did you would have reconsidered your request - instead of telling me I am the one that cannot back up a claim.

Like I said, you can always tell me what type of evidence will satisfy you; I gave you half a dozen categories to choose from. But, don't be disingenuous and ask me for peer-reviewed published research on spirituality, for example. You know what kind of argument that would create if I indulged your request - which is why you are projecting now.

 

[Kaon]

Shifting the burden of proof. The claim is that there is actual research based evidence but so far....we haven't seen any

You never addressed any of my other arguments about folliculitis/cutting hair and tattoos because you know what I said is backed up by medical research. You purposefully chose to pick the most academically ambiguous topic to try to poke a hole in the entire argument.

You started in your mind, by interpreting what I was saying. The claim was not that there is actual research based evidence - at least I never said that. I was very specific with my words:

It is a combination of factors: spiritual, environmental, chemical and psychological. In other words, it is the result of sin.
​

which was a response to a contextually specific question:

Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ?
​

The OP didn't even ask for "evidence," so there was no reason to assert what I said was backed up by evidence (even if I know it is).

 

[Quartermaine]

I expect people to ask for evidence that is realistic and appropriate. You asked me to give you peer-reviewed published research to prove the spiritual influence of homosexuality, while completely ignoring academia does not deal with spirituality. There should be no peer review published research that refutes or confirms the spiritual realm in a serious matter. Spirituality is not academic.

actually I asked for evidence to back up your claim: "It is a combination of factors: spiritual, environmental, chemical and psychological. In other words, it is the result of sin." Post #181


You went on at length in Post # 182 about how you could produce that evidence.

But that doesn't matter to you; you want an argument. The parameters don't matter, because if they did you would have reconsidered your request - instead of telling me I am the one that cannot back up a claim.

You haven't backed up your claim.

You've made all sorts of unsupported assertions about what i want and what i would do. But that is it

 

[Mark45]

Ahh I see, your not looking for answers to your questions your only here to attack Christian beliefs. Why ask questions you already know the answer to only to attack those who give you the answers your expecting to hear? Don’t expect those who serve God to bend His rules to suit what you think is permissible and your implications on how this person would react to a homosexual loved one are completely unwarranted. They’re based on nothing more than assumptions without the proper incite to make any kind of educated assessment.

You’re making extreme presumptions and judgements without seeing that you’re lacking in any real compassion and your choice of words is consistent with judgement and condemnation. Jesus Christ The Lord and saviour came to save sinners and not to condemn! You’re self righteousness is clear and this isn’t grace or words of grace . Self righteousness Pharisees could only compare themselves with others feeling superior and righteous this isn’t Grace or Love !

 

[Kaon]

actually I asked for evidence to back up your claim: "It is a combination of factors: spiritual, environmental, chemical and psychological. In other words, it is the result of sin." Post #181


You went on at length in Post # 182 about how you could produce that evidence.


You haven't backed up your claim.

You've made all sorts of unsupported assertions about what i want and what i would do. But that is it

Stop being insincere and assuming I am a fool; your exact words are clearly posted on this page. You asked me for evidence of what I said, and I asked you what evidence would satisfy you. I asked you this because I see your intent...

...and, as expected from certain CF member, you asked for something you know is improbable and unlikely to obtain:

you have actual peer reviewed published research actually demonstrating that homosexuality is the result of spiritual factors
​

Your words. And, you know academia doesnt study the spiritual - which is why you asked the question the way you did. That is when I suggest you were trolling me in usual C.F. fashion - which you are.

You can try to convince yourself that your intentions are objective, but to me you look disingenuous and insincere, which is why I have, as of yet, given you dust for evidence. Now, this is as far as we go.



By the way, you still never addressed my original TWO questions I answered for you without evidence - concerning folliculistis and blood poisoning - because you know it is right, and can be verified easily. You know what your intention was when you asked the first question - you are just hoping no one else figures it out, and you can make me look silly in the mean time.

No, I am not letting this type of stuff slide anymore on these forums; I am calling it out. People on here get away with deriding and reviling people they believe to be intellectually inferior all the time, but then when someone actually has academic knowledge, they begin the same strategy of disservice and dismissal as you have done. People lurking and as members need to see this for what it is, and the people doing it need to convict themselves.

 

[Quartermaine]

Stop being insincere and assuming I am a fool; your exact words are clearly posted on this page. You asked me for evidence of what I said, and I asked you what evidence would satisfy you. I asked you this because I see your intent...

...and, as expected from certain CF member, you asked for something you know is improbable and unlikely to obtain:

you have actual peer reviewed published research actually demonstrating that homosexuality is the result of spiritual factors
​

Your words. And, you know academia doesnt study the spiritual - which is why you asked the question the way you did. That is when I suggest you were trolling me in usual C.F. fashion - which you are.

You can try to convince yourself that your intentions are objective, but to me you look disingenuous and insincere, which is why I have, as of yet, given you dust for evidence. Now, this is as far as we go.

Cheers.

I didn't think for a second you would back up your claims.

 

[Kaon]

I didn't think for a second you would back up your claims.

You have exposed yourself, I know exactly what you are.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You’re making extreme presumptions and judgements without seeing that you’re lacking in any real compassion and your choice of words is consistent with judgement and condemnation. Jesus Christ The Lord and saviour came to save sinners and not to condemn! You’re self righteousness is clear and this isn’t grace or words of grace . Self righteousness Pharisees could only compare themselves with others feeling superior and righteous this isn’t Grace or Love !

Please quote my presumptions, judgements, and examples of my lack of compassion.