Is it sinful to have a Homosexual Orientation?

[rjs330]

I believe it is but am not prejudiced against them,it doesnt bother me at
all their orientation as far as being friends with them,but their being in sin does.

I have worked with homosexuals in my jobs. I have never treated them poorly and have treated them no differently than anyone else. They are people. God loves them and so do I. They are lost just like anyone else that hasn't accepted Christ. They are not some second class sinner. They have been friends. They attended my wedding.

What I struggle with is the political agenda of those on the left, who want to force us to accept and partcipate in celebrating homosexuality. Instead if going to a baker that they know will bake them a cake, they specifically target Christian bakers just so they can punish them for their beliefs. They've done the same with florists and photographers and venues. We've heard it in the Democrats debates. They want to punish churches for non acceptance. If a church won't provide a wedding they want them punished.

Accept, celebrate or we will attempt to destroy you. It's not the individual that is an issue. We are all sinners. It's the political agenda of the homosexual left that is the issue.

 

[Quartermaine]

If you mean that assaultive behavior name calling is bigotry and hate, then I agree with you. If you are saying that calling homosexual sex sinful then we disagree.

If you are saying that believers should be forced to accept, and celebrate homosexuality then I'm afraid we will have to disagree on that as well.

If you are saying Christians should leave homosexuals alone and not try to use the government to punish them then we agree. It would be no different than demanding that the government punish people for lying, gossiping, gluttony, adultery etc. That's God's job. Not ours.

you don't have to hit someone to hurt them

 

[Quartermaine]

Instead if going to a baker that they know will bake them a cake, they specifically target Christian bakers just so they can punish them for their beliefs. They've done the same with florists and photographers and venues.

who exactly is doing this?


and if a business didn't discriminate how could they even be targeted?

We've heard it in the Democrats debates. They want to punish churches for non acceptance. If a church won't provide a wedding they want them punished.

That is not true. no one can force a church to marry anyone. This is why you still hear about churches refusing to marry interracial couples. A church is not a business and sin't subject to public accommodation laws.

O'Rourke actually said: "There can be no reward, no benefit, no tax break, for anyone, any institution, any organization in America, that denies the full human rights, that denies the full civil rights, of everyone in America."

Churches have tax exempt status and are....supposedly...to be non participants in government. If a church is going to preach politics and try to influence voters then yes they should loose their tax exempt status.

Accept, celebrate or we will attempt to destroy you. It's not the individual that is an issue. We are all sinners. It's the political agenda of the homosexual left that is the issue.

Except no one is saying this.

 

[rjs330]

who exactly is doing this?


and if a business didn't discriminate how could they even be targeted?

That is not true. no one can force a church to marry anyone. This is why you still hear about churches refusing to marry interracial couples. A church is not a business and sin't subject to public accommodation laws.

O'Rourke actually said: "There can be no reward, no benefit, no tax break, for anyone, any institution, any organization in America, that denies the full human rights, that denies the full civil rights, of everyone in America."

Churches have tax exempt status and are....supposedly...to be non participants in government. If a church is going to preach politics and try to influence voters then yes they should loose their tax exempt status.

Except no one is saying this.

You know exactly who is "doing this."

I think you answered your own question. ORourk said it. Accept and celebrate or be punished.

 

[Quartermaine]

You know exactly who is "doing this."

I think you answered your own question. ORourk said it. Accept and celebrate or be punished.

as far as i know no one is doing this, it's just a right wing fantasy

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don’t live my life by what the Bible says. Do you? Not being flippant. Do you live your life by what the Bible says? PLEASE don’t give me a Bible verse as response. Tell me from the hip or the heart, anything other than a biblical quote. I want to hear from YOU.

We MUST and DO live our lives by what the Bible says, in Harmony with All Scripture, more daily, as God Accomplishes His Grace in our Lives (it often takes decades for someone trapped in religious circumstances with family and church) .....

Jesus said clearly "My commandments ARE NOT burdensome"...

and HIS WAY is the WAY OF LIFE ETERNAL - there is NO OTHER WAY..... period. Simple.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I also am just a human being,but I've been forgiven and cleaned up a good bit.

DING! LIGHT GOING ON OVERHEAD!

Are you (positive expectations) ALSO a "new creation" in Christ Jesus ?

( A LOT (most) of humans are just human, and not new creations)

 

[Kenny'sID]

The following is intended as in general and not aimed at any particular person.

Those who question if or not they're born with Homosexual orientation are being brainwashed by a society who make it a point to make homosexuality seem just fine when it is not. The more people they can suck in by telling them "It's not your fault, you were born that way", the more acting homosexuals there will be, and the more there are, the better the illusion that it's just fine to be one, or, "It must be ok, everyone's doing it.". Not to mention, the more the merrier, and misery loves company aspect. I've little doubt they make "very close" friends with the, "it's ok, it's not your fault" line as well.

So the people who pretend to be so caring, as they give you that seemingly deep understanding, compassionate, with a touch of "poor you" tone as they tell you "It's not your fault, you were born that way " they really don't give a rats p$%^@&^* (can I say patootie here?) about anyone but themselves, and helping their cause. They are evil people that lie (they have no proof whatsoever of the "born with it" claim) who will pay the price for what they themselves do, and for those they help drag into this with lies and falsehoods.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

DING! LIGHT GOING ON OVERHEAD!

Are you (positive expectations) ALSO a "new creation" in Christ Jesus ?

( A LOT (most) of humans are just human, and not new creations)

Good point Jeff,I dropped the ball on that one didn't I ?
Thank for that correction.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

Good point Jeff,I dropped the ball on that one didn't I ?
Thank for that correction.

And yes,to answer that question...I AM a new creation in Christ Jesus!

 

[Quartermaine]

The following is intended as in general and not aimed at any particular person.

Those who question if or not they're born with Homosexual orientation are being brainwashed by a society who make it a point to make homosexuality seem just fine when it is not. The more people they can suck in by telling them "It's not your fault, you were born that way", the more acting homosexuals there will be, and the more there are, the better the illusion that it's just fine to be one, or, "It must be ok, everyone's doing it.". Not to mention, the more the merrier, and misery loves company. I've little doubt they make "very close" friends with the, "it's ok, it's not your fault" line as well.

So the people who pretend to be so caring, as they give you that seemingly deep understanding, compassionate, with a touch of "poor you" tone as they tell you "It's not your fault, you were born that way " they really don't give a rats p$%^@&^* (can I say patootie here?) about anyone but themselves, and helping their cause. They are evil people that lie (they have no proof whatsoever of the "born with it" claim) who will pay the price for what they themselves do, and for those they help drag into this with lies and falsehoods.

saying it not your fault implies that you are is wrong. That is the message from those who choose to hate and choose to dehumanize and choose to cause harm. The message is that if someone has a problem with you because your are gay it's THEIR problem not yours.

 

[tdidymas]

The following is intended as in general and not aimed at any particular person.

Those who question if or not they're born with Homosexual orientation are being brainwashed by a society who make it a point to make homosexuality seem just fine when it is not. The more people they can suck in by telling them "It's not your fault, you were born that way", the more acting homosexuals there will be, and the more there are, the better the illusion that it's just fine to be one, or, "It must be ok, everyone's doing it.". Not to mention, the more the merrier, and misery loves company. I've little doubt they make "very close" friends with the, "it's ok, it's not your fault" line as well.

So the people who pretend to be so caring, as they give you that seemingly deep understanding, compassionate, with a touch of "poor you" tone as they tell you "It's not your fault, you were born that way " they really don't give a rats p$%^@&^* (can I say patootie here?) about anyone but themselves, and helping their cause. They are evil people that lie (they have no proof whatsoever of the "born with it" claim) who will pay the price for what they themselves do, and for those they help drag into this with lies and falsehoods.

Have you actually heard a gay say "it's not your fault" in those words? I'm just curious, as it is a self-contradiction, since the term "fault" and the context implies there is something wrong with it. And rightly so, since gay's can't procreate, which is obvious to anyone with open eyes.
TD

 

[rjs330]

saying it not your fault implies that you are is wrong. That is the message from those who choose to hate and choose to dehumanize and choose to cause harm. The message is that if someone has a problem with you because your are gay it's THEIR problem not yours.

They are wrong in the eyes of God as are all sinners. It is their problem as all sinners. I'd it dehumanizing to say an adulterer is wrong? Or how about a liar?

 

[Kenny'sID]

saying it not your fault implies that you are is wrong.

"It's not your fault you are gay, it is your predestined orientation" was what I was saying, and I just need to be sure we're on the same page before I answer your post.

saying it not your fault implies that you are is wrong.

Also, do you mean "you" implies I am (I am "you") wrong or are they the "you", you refer to?

EDIT: On second thought, I think you just don't like my post so you're going to say something negative about it, and that's fine, but I see no reason to waste time on something that means little to nothing in the defense of homosexuality. But if you somehow think being gay is fine for the Christian, by all means explain.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Have you actually heard a gay say "it's not your fault" in those words?

I may not have been clear with my point, so please read my last post where I hope I cleared it up, then either tell me yes, you understood my post in the first place so I can comment, or you didn't, but now you do, and then comment again if you like.

Edit: Read the edit in the prior post, please.

 

[stevevw]

No, bigotry and hate are being called out for what they are

The problem with this is that if a Christian expresses their belief that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God they are called a bigot and accused of promoting hate. Yet they are breaking the same rights laws that they accuse Christians of doing by attacking Christians which is the right to religious belief and the expression of that belief. So there is a war going on between two world views. This is happening more and more across a number of issues (gender identity being another).

So people may disagree but they should allow the right for people to express their beliefs. The problem I see is that Christians have to accept secular world view even though they disagree (same sex marriage is one where it is now law and Christians have to go along). But secular world view is beginning to not accept Christian beliefs (Christian cannot give their personal views/beliefs without being shut out or called names).

What I find telling is that there may be some scientific support for the Christian view which shows that secular views are more about a political agenda that truth. As we are seeing with gender the agenda is based on personal views and the science is denied. It was only a few years ago that people with gender identity problems were diagnosed with a psychological problem. Now they say it is a normal part of being human, though there is still psychological problems gender dysphoria. The same was said about homosexuality in the not too distant past. By changing the criteria it masks what may be really happening.

This seems to be a trend with secular worldviews where people are celebrating people with psychological problems as being normal and normal/natural ways as being wrong. This is a worrying trend in a world that's going upside down.

 

[JackRT]

The problem I see is that Christians have always accepted secular world view even though they disagree.

No they have not and certainly not always. Homosexuals have been persecuted and even executed. So have pagans and even so called witches. Is there anything that Christians have not persecuted? I say this as a long time Christian myself.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No they have not and certainly not always. Homosexuals have been persecuted and even executed. So have pagans and even so called witches. Is there anything that Christians have not persecuted? I say this as a long time Christian myself.

Apparently in the first century and then some, the assembly of Ekklesia would not willingly harm (physically) nor kill anyone.
Of course, they also did not accept a lot of different forbidden or sinful or unseemingly even , topics; nor believers in their midst who claimed to be Ekklesia but after appropriate warnings still would not give up known transgressions. With the positive expectation and hope and prayers that they would repent, they were to be put out of the assembly, until such change took place (no more willful transgressions).

 

[stevevw]

No they have not and certainly not always. Homosexuals have been persecuted and even executed. So have pagans and even so called witches. Is there anything that Christians have not persecuted? I say this as a long time Christian myself.

Yes we know that. And secular scientists and medical experts use to do all sorts of horrible things as well like kill innocents in wars, crucify innocent people, take the land of indigenous people and destroy their culture, lock up the mentally ill, lobotomies and electrocutions of the insane. We are talking about today. Most Christians have to live in society and go along with the laws despite disagreeing with them otherwise they will be prosecuted. But people can call anyone who disagrees with some of these ideologies names and get away with it.

PS I find it confusing when people say Christians did this or that in the past. Christians are those who follow Christ as with the original church and the disciples. What happened later in mainstream society was not a Christian movement. This was a religious movement, an organised religion based on self serving ideas and in fact contradicted Christianity. The Christian church was still operating during this time in the background doing good work. It would be like saying that a person who claims to be a liberal but in practice they are acting like a socialist is still a liberal. No they are a wolf in sheep clothing.

It is the same throughout time and even today where we see so called Christians contradicting what Christ taught. Christ said you will know who is a Christian by the fruits they bear. What you claim were Christians were actually people whether religious or secular being humans at their worst.

 

[tdidymas]

I may not have been clear with my point, so please read my last post where I hope I cleared it up, then either tell me yes, you understood my post in the first place so I can comment, or you didn't, but now you do, and then comment again if you like.

Edit: Read the edit in the prior post, please.

I don't get it. I'm just asking a question. I'm curious what you have heard from that camp.
TD