Is it sinful to have a Homosexual Orientation?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No they have not and certainly not always. Homosexuals have been persecuted and even executed. So have pagans and even so called witches. Is there anything that Christians have not persecuted? I say this as a long time Christian myself.

True Christians have been persecuted and executed from the first century (Jesus) thru this century.
Nothing new there.

Also, the true Ekklesia won't execute anyone. The counterfeit of course, will execute on a whim at times (and lives are sold for a loaf of bread).

 

[Kenny'sID]

I don't get it. I'm just asking a question. I'm curious what you have heard from that camp.
TD

What part did you not get?

And no, you weren't just asking, you had orther comments in the post, all of which I intend to answer once things are cleared up.

And are you actuality stating no Homosexual has told anyone who questions their orientation, that it is not their fault, they were born that way? If not, I'll point it out to you next time I hear it said on these boards, if not on this very thread...mkay?

 

[Quartermaine]

The problem with this is that if a Christian expresses their belief that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God they are called a bigot and accused of promoting hate.

if a Christian expresses their belief that racial equality if wrong in the eyes of God what are they promoting?

Yet they are breaking the same rights laws that they accuse Christians of doing by attacking Christians which is the right to religious belief and the expression of that belief. So there is a war going on between two world views. This is happening more and more across a number of issues (gender identity being another).

So people may disagree but they should allow the right for people to express their beliefs.

No one is infringing on anyone's religion or right to believe anything.
Everyone is free to express their beliefs but they are not free from the consequences or the response to that expression.

The problem I see is that Christians have to accept secular world view even though they disagree (same sex marriage is one where it is now law and Christians have to go along). But secular world view is beginning to not accept Christian beliefs (Christian cannot give their personal views/beliefs without being shut out or called names).

Christians have to accept the legitimacy and legality of other religions, they have to accept the marriages of non-Christians and interracial couples.
What names do Christians call same gendered couples?

What I find telling is that there may be some scientific support for the Christian view which shows that secular views are more about a political agenda that truth. As we are seeing with gender the agenda is based on personal views and the science is denied.

what science is being denied?

It was only a few years ago that people with gender identity problems were diagnosed with a psychological problem. Now they say it is a normal part of being human, though there is still psychological problems gender dysphoria.

the key here is that being transgender is not the same as gender dysphoria

The same was said about homosexuality in the not too distant past. By changing the criteria it masks what may be really happening.

false, homosexuality never met the criteria for mental illness in the first palce and was removed from the DSM because there was no evidence that it was a pathology and fifty years later there still is none.

This seems to be a trend with secular worldviews where people are celebrating people with psychological problems as being normal and normal/natural ways as being wrong. This is a worrying trend in a world that's going upside down.

the worrying trend is that so many people still deny science and try to claim that homosexuality is a mental illness

 

[Quartermaine]

Yes we know that. And secular scientists and medical experts use to do all sorts of horrible things as well like kill innocents in wars, crucify innocent people, take the land of indigenous people and destroy their culture, lock up the mentally ill, lobotomies and electrocutions of the insane. We are talking about today.

lobotomies were used to "cure" homosexuals as recently as the 1970's

Most Christians have to live in society and go along with the laws despite disagreeing with them otherwise they will be prosecuted.

you mean like the 14th amendment?

But people can call anyone who disagrees with some of these ideologies names and get away with it.

Like how you call homosexuals mentally ill?

PS I find it confusing when people say Christians did this or that in the past. Christians are those who follow Christ as with the original church and the disciples. What happened later in mainstream society was not a Christian movement. This was a religious movement, an organised religion based on self serving ideas and in fact contradicted Christianity. The Christian church was still operating during this time in the background doing good work. It would be like saying that a person who claims to be a liberal but in practice they are acting like a socialist is still a liberal. No they are a wolf in sheep clothing.


It is the same throughout time and even today where we see so called Christians contradicting what Christ taught. Christ said you will know who is a Christian by the fruits they bear. What you claim were Christians were actually people whether religious or secular being humans at their worst.

the persecution continues. Only overt forms of torture have gone underground. the persecution continues and yes it is Christians leading that persecution. Only overt forms have gone underground or moved the efforts to other countries.

 

[Quartermaine]

What part did you not get?

And no, you weren't just asking, you had orther comments in the post, all of which I intend to answer once things are cleared up.

And are you actuality stating no Homosexual has told anyone who questions their orientation, that it is not their fault, they were born that way? If not, I'll point it out to you next time I hear it said on these boards, if not on this very thread...mkay?

anyone who questions another orientation are the ones with the problem.

and good luck finding anyone who prefixes their inborn orientation with the idea that they are faulty

 

[stevevw]

if a Christian expresses their belief that racial equality if wrong in the eyes of God what are they promoting?

they are promoting racism. But that is not in the bible.

No one is infringing on anyone's religion or right to believe anything.
Everyone is free to express their beliefs but they are not free from the consequences or the response to that expression.

So when a person expresses their belief say against same sex marriage and they are threatened with losing their job or position is this not wrong. When they are refused equal and fair time to express their views in public places is this discrimination.

Christians have to accept the legitimacy and legality of other religions, they have to accept the marriages of non-Christians and interracial couples.

Yes I agree but they still have a right to express their disagreement.

What names do Christians call same gendered couples?

Names like bigot etc. Jordan Petersen is a good example. When he expresses his views on gender he is accused of spreading hate and shouted down. Folau was sacked for expressing his belief, Margaret Court has been shunned and threatened with losing her place with Tennis Australia for expressing her views against same sex marriage. There are many examples happening now.

what science is being denied?

Like a male cannot become a female just because they feel they are. A child needs a mother and a father for the best possible upbringing.

the key here is that being transgender is not the same as gender dysphoria

Yes it is. Gender dysphoria is feeling out of place or ill at ease in your own body.

false, homosexuality never met the criteria for mental illness in the first place and was removed from the DSM because there was no evidence that it was a pathology and fifty years later there still is none.
the worrying trend is that so many people still deny science and try to claim that homosexuality is a mental illness

I don't want to get into this area on this forum as it is contentious.

What I will say is that some of these areas do have high rates of mental health issues that are not all due to discrimination and a lack of acceptance. But unfortunately they are being overlooked because some so not want to acknowledge that there are any problems. For example transgender have a 40% suicide rate compared to around 4% for mainstream society and studies show that the 36% difference is not all due to them being treated differently. There is a lot of comorbidity such as anxiety, depression, substance abuse, DV which is not being identified properly.

For me IMO a person will always have a degree of uncomfortably with not feeling they have the right body or sexual attraction and only allowing for some options to help them such as trying to change them physically or changing the environments around them so that it accommodates the situation better and not address their minds is never going to completely work as it ignores important aspects of the problem. Studies show that those who have changed themselves physically it did not give them the contentment they were seeking.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

losing their job or position

That's almost nothing compared to
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards,

nor revilers, nor swindlers

will inherit the kingdom of God.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV / 7 helpful votes

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

 

[RDKirk]

All of the orientations we were born with tend us to sin.

Jesus calls us to rise above the demands of all those orientations, transform our minds into the likeness of His, and take control of all the orientations we were born with.

 

[stevevw]

That's almost nothing compared to
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards,

nor revilers, nor swindlers

will inherit the kingdom of God.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV / 7 helpful votes

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Yes 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is what caused Isreal Folau to lose his contract with Rugby Australia for quoting that verse as part of his belief. It seems Christians cannot express their religious beliefs anymore. There is a spiritual war going between opposing world views. Soon all Christian belief will be attacked as being out of line with secular society. One ban leads to another and both cannot exist in the same society. As Jesus said you are either for me or against me and a house cannot contain both Satan and God. Christianity will be pushed to the fringes just like it was in the times of Christ.

 

[Quartermaine]

they are promoting racism. But that is not in the bible.

yes it is racism and in doing so they are promoting hate. It is their belief that it is biblical but that belief doesn't make their position about black people good or right. Are you seeing what i am getting at here?

So when a person expresses their belief say against same sex marriage and they are threatened with losing their job or position is this not wrong.

what would happen in that same person expressed their belief against interracial marriage or civil rights or started saying similar things about Jews or Muslims or the handicapped? They would have the same consequences.

When they are refused equal and fair time to express their views in public places is this discrimination.

but you do have every right to express your views in public just like the grand dragon of the KKK does or anyone else. But no one is free from the consequences of expressing their views

Yes I agree but they still have a right to express their disagreement.
Names like bigot etc. Jordan Petersen is a good example. When he expresses his views on gender he is accused of spreading hate and shouted down. [/quote] are you referring to the time he implied that the transgender individuals in his audience were Nazis?

Folau was sacked for expressing his belief,

and he woudl have faced the same consequences if he has said the same thing about any one else.

Margaret Court has been shunned and threatened with losing her place with Tennis Australia for expressing her views against same sex marriage. There are many examples happening now.

she faced similar consequences when she expressed her expressing her praise of apartheid.

Like a male cannot become a female just because they feel they are.[/quote] science says otherwise

A child needs a mother and a father for the best possible upbringing.

evidence that this is a scientific statement?

Yes it is. Gender dysphoria is feeling out of place or ill at ease in your own body.

According to the DSM gender dysphoria is a difference between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, AND significant distress or problems functioning AND that
dysfunction and distress are caused by the experienced difference not by others response to or treatment of that individual.

I don't want to get into this area on this forum as it is contentious.

it isn't contentious its a matter of public record.

What I will say is that some of these areas do have high rates of mental health issues that are not all due to discrimination and a lack of acceptance.

evidence?

But unfortunately they are being overlooked because some so not want to acknowledge that there are any problems. For example transgender have a 40% suicide rate compared to around 4% for mainstream society and studies show that the 36% difference is not all due to them being treated differently.

citation?

There is a lot of comorbidity such as anxiety, depression, substance abuse, DV which is not being identified properly.

says who?

For me IMO a person will always have a degree of uncomfortably with not feeling they have the right body or sexual attraction and only allowing for some options to help them such as trying to change them physically or changing the environments around them so that it accommodates the situation better and not address their minds is never going to completely work as it ignores important aspects of the problem. Studies show that those who have changed themselves physically it did not give them the contentment they were seeking.

citation?

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This is closed. Please note that the Statement of Purpose for this forum includes:
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Homosexuality, Same-Sex Marriage, Bisexuality and Transgenderism/Transexualism: Discussion of these topics must comply with the sitewide rule barring the promotion of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, and transgenderism/transexualism. Discussion and debate should only be directed toward political, legal, historical and civil rights issues, and should not be directed toward the morality of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality or transgenderism/transexualism.

Whether it is sinful or not cannot be discussed in this forum. Please review the site rules and the Statement of Purpose for the forums you are posting in.

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