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Featured Is it possible for one to "fall away" or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away"?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I can assure you I'm not offended in any way. I do have some convictions along those lines because God gets the glory for salvation period. Other then that, I've seen nothing in your post or with your questions that would give me a reason to worry, let alone to be offended.

    I'm a little puzzled, I don't know of a revocable salvation, I only know the mercy and grace of God. Perhaps there are those better versed in theology that can find such a thing, but I've never seen it in the New Testament. My contention is simply this, and I think I made that clear, if you can lose salvation you can only lose it once.

    Paul was certainly very strict about fellowshiping with certain individuals who were involved in gross immorality and even blasphemy. Paul described it as turning them over to the power of Satan, the destruction of the flesh to save the soul. I'm not sure what that includes but I don't want to be that guy, but I don't think we are talking about perdition but rather discipline.

    Falling away is a much different thing, if you fall away from the faith you are lost forever. I don't know how to make it any clearer then that.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
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  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I live in Oregon and climbed a steep three sided mountain (Mt. Thielsen) that had a "tip" at, or to the top of it, and their are two straight drop off's on two of it's sides for two or three thousand feet straight down... Look over that ledge and that'll put the fear of God in you real quick... I think I back ed up and started kissing the rock I was on... Anyway, it was one of the hardest things I ever did... did it with two of my friends... two mile trail to the base to get to like the base on the 45 degree side of it, increasing to about a 60 degree slope side of the mountain as you got toward the top, that you then hiked up to get to the top...

    You had to take gallons of water with you, and in backpacks, and as hiked up it, and it was all pumice rock, or gravel, and you would take a few steps up and slide down a bit, then other steps up and slide down again, ect... it was almost like trying to hike up that steep of a sand dune or something, or trying to go uphill in sand... one of the most physical things I ever did, took us about four hours to get to the top, then, I looked off the edge(s), and "Oh my God." Anyway, yeah...

    We slid back down most of the back down though, and ruined our jeans, but we figured out we could just slide back down most of the way on our butts and save ourselves a lot of trouble... that part was kind of fun...

    [​IMG]

    This picture shows the side you climb up but does not show the other two sides that drop off for a ways straight down...

    God Bless!
     
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  3. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I lived in Colorado for years, the North Cheyenne North Park was in my backyard, almost. I love those mountains and me and my daughter had a hike once that lead us into a million and one cactus plants, she was furious. Anyway, that sounds like fun, I think it would be worth a pair of jeans but that's just me, don't think I would take my daughter on that one.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  4. LightLoveHope

    LightLoveHope Jesus leads us to life

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    I would temper this with the concept of emotional disturbance.
    I have a good christian brother who had an argument with his son.
    It went so deep, and the lack of respect hit him so hard, he felt he could not forgive his son and would rather go to hell than forgive him. This feeling came out of his past, and was waiting to be triggered.

    It took 9 months to finally come round. He forgave his son, because he knew if he did not, how could God forgive him. And what was this pride and respect he held on to so strongly.

    So I think we can aspire that we are on solid ground, and circumstances can show us we still have a way to go. In a sense this was not a leaving God, as resolving a long standing issue in their life that needed dealing with. So we need to give grace and time and listen.

    David sinned with Bathesheba yet came back. Many of these type of issues take time to work through and the real test of the choice has to work out.

    Peter claimed he would die for Jesus, yet it was not fully formed, and he found out the hard way he still had a way to go.
     
  5. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I'm sure there are things like that wgich exist for most people. I sometimes wonder aboout Lot, even Peter calls him a righteous man (2 Peter 2:8), yet there is every indication that he was carnal, proably till the day he died. I seen few instances where it looked like someone was saved and then managed to lose salvation. But ok, I can accept it as certainly concievable, but if you can lose salvation, it's only once.
     
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,349
    Anabaptist
    There's no indication in Scripture that Yahweh says Lot lost his salvation.
    (even though like others also, he made mistakes - maybe even sinned? )
    Does Yahweh's Word ever show that Lot was carnal ? Not because of temporary things, but in his nature ? If so, could Yahweh call Lot a righteous man ?
     
  7. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I know Peter called him a righteous man and that the Lord, actually his angels said, the outcry from Sodom is great. These were some wicked people, Lot saw that every day and he was at the gate when the angels entered, indicating he was some kind of an elder for the city. The man offered his virgin daughters to the crowd, got drunk, and his daughters got pregnant because they had sex with him. I don't know what you consider carnal but that sounds like he was seriously compromised to me.
     
  8. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,349
    Anabaptist
    QUOTE="mark kennedy, post: 73553456, member: 29337"]I know Peter called him a righteous man and that the Lord, actually his angels said, the outcry from Sodom is great. These were some wicked people, Lot saw that every day and he was at the gate when the angels entered, indicating he was some kind of an elder for the city. The man offered his virgin daughters to the crowd, got drunk, and his daughters got pregnant because they had sex with him. I don't know what you consider carnal but that sounds like he was seriously compromised to me.[/QUOTE
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry, but it looks like you missed the substance. Yahweh calls Lot a righteous man.

    It is written,
    that Lot was so sorely vexed by all the unrighteousness around him he was almost driven insane. (same today for the righteous men - so much unrighteousness all around us, it almost drives us insane, everywhere - every country, city, forum, church, everywhere) .

    If anyone is not sorely grieved in heart and mind/ weeping for all the wickednesses today, for all the unrighteousness even in high places (policital, medical, religious, educational, financial),
    they are not righteous.
     
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