Is it possible for one to "fall away" or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away"?

[d taylor]

Can we be given eternal life, or is eternal life life that goes on forever?
Another phrase in scripture that is used is "not perish", not "see death", not "die".

Paul says this
God "will give to each person according to what he has done."
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger
Rom 2:6-8

Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness
2 Tim 2:19

They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
2 Thess 2:10-12

People can easily claim faith, believe they are saved yet continue in wickedness and evil deeds. It is clear that these people believe in vain and have not grasped the way of Christ and His Holiness. For we are called to be temples of the Holy Spirit, purified and made Holy.

How can an uncleansed heart be a vessel of the Holy Spirit, or a life that has not been redeemed and changed have any hope to become eternal and dwell with Christ?

There are no examples in the Bible of a person having false belief. In the Bible when a person is said to believe they have received eternal life because they have as their object of their faith the promised Messiah (Jesus) and have trusted in Him for His gift of eternal life.
The issue is black and white in the Bible either a person believed or they did not.

Now in this current age, there are people putting their faith,belief,trust in all kind of places. So if those people have not correctly placed their faith in the correct object and in a sense like judas, they are believing in something but just not The Promised Messiah. There are also false teachers that can be put into the picture in the Bible and now but in the Bible they are not portrayed as a believer to began with but i am not sure if any false teachers are actually named in the Bible it just mention false teachers.

But then again i believe some false teachers could have originally started out and placed their faith in the correct object (Jesus) then over time gone astray with incorrect teachings but i believe these people never loose their eternal life. But at the Judgment seat of The Messiah they will have a hard time and loose a lot, if not all, except their eternal life.

 

[Blade]

Everyone the Father gives to Christ He never loses. Now.. SAVED...born from above born again did not happen till AFTER Christ was rose from the grave PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS!

Fallen away? We dont give this gift God does. "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Unless one can see the heart of a man.. no one will ever know and all these threads will just be guessing speculation.

You think GOD looks at this sees this through mans eyes? You think GOD once you ask Christ into your life or when you repented and choose to believe Christ is who HE said He was to trust Him/Faith.. you think GOD sees this through TIME? There is not TIME with God..its on earth as it IS IN heaven.

Your holding GOD to mans views.. and then putting God into some time bubble. So.. if there is not time with God.. and whats made new is NOT flesh.. not of this world.. how do you LOSE it? Its not of this world.. the RULES of this world do not apply.

Fall away.. based on some SIN JESUS forgot or it slipped passed the BLOOD OF JESUS? Are sins GONE or not? Takes AWAY..what does that mean? OT NT 'For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.' So you can do some SIN that GOD now remembers?

This is NOT based on FEELINGS or the FLESH. That which HAD a PRICE to be paid.. where GOD HAD TO JUDGE...the ONLY sacrifice that will EVER be done.. has been done. It can not happen again. There is NO SIN man can do that CHRIST never died for. I have NEVER see this as OOH I CAN FREELY SIN. Knowing He forgave.. knowing He does not judge me condemn me in ANY WAY... I SO hunger to live holy right for Him.. the more.

If you SIN.. you will pay the price and have allot of problems in this world.. and no reward in Heaven..But HE will not hold it against you. WE as MAN KNOW NOTHING IS FREE! It cant be.. we would not do it and so A GOD CANT DO IT!

We get no say PRAISE GOD. God has NEVER ONCE asked said anything to me about losing salvation.. ever.. I am in His hands.. I dont have more power then GOD

 

[Neogaia777]

Good question,

I bought a steak dinner today. Should I have given that money to my church and maybe settled for a bowl of oatmeal? Should I have bought my neighbor a steak dinner? Should I have given that money for my steak to my church and given my bowl of oatmeal to my neighbor. I was watching a football game , while eating my steak and thought some of the cheerleaders where pretty hot ! Should I have been reading my bible and praying instead of watching football. I guess I committed a lot of different sins. Where is that line ? Should I be condemned now? Should I lose my salvation ? I almost forgot, someone else had a lobster dinner, I thought it looked better than mine and I wish I would have had the lobster ( chalk me up for another one}. I wonder who was perfect today. Jesus ?

Awesome...

So what should you or one have done...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Does one who closely follows the commandment of the Lord, is required to stop eating steak dinner and watching football games? Do you find any commandment that stops you to do so? Healthy behaviours are never sins, as long as you control them and not be controlled by them.

So I don't see how this answers my question.

Cause those are the questions that come up with someone talking about or the ways some apply or interpret the commandments (all of them, and perfect law) to mean, (a standard of perfection) or make us or some question if that's what they mean...?

Can you tell us how we are doing that wrong, or where we are going wrong with it or that specifically...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The eternal sheep, who God foreknew will never fall away.
Those who have Gods word planted in their hearts, who are transformed and walk in maturity in the Spirit, appear to have arrived at the walk.

Those who have listened and are discovering and experiencing God at first and are not quite sure of the battles and issues, could fall away and Jesus testifies to this happening in the seed and sower parable.

Our security is in knowing Jesus, His love and the cross.
We can harden our hearts and become dull to God.

There are many warnings as to the nature of being in the Kingdom.
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 1 Thess 4:7

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 1 Peter 1:15-16

Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace
2 Cor 13:11

These are difficult ambitions, and some would say impossible.

Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:8-10

let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds
Heb 10:22-24

Many who claim you can never lose ones salvation, have not begun to address the issues above so I wonder if they have actually met Jesus as all. It is therefore difficult to discuss such a topic, until one is grounded in the doorway and the path we are called to walk.

Some claim that there is no path, only Jesus, and we arrive when we believe, except their meaning believe is just an acceptance of the sin transaction, not the transformation or the walk. Once believing is actually walking, following and obeying Christ, not doing so, becomes a denial of faith. Subtly the language has been shifted so believe is a trust in being saved, without a response in ones life being necessary. This shift has led to easy believism, and a view that often is gnostic in its outworkings. It is therefore difficult to talk about these issues in isolation, as ones whole salvation and redemption is wrapped up in can it be lost.

Do you trust in your response as being necessary...? (Bolded above)... And if you do, what else is...?

God Bless!

 

[LightLoveHope]

Do you trust in your response as being necessary...? (Bolded above)... And if you do, what else is...?

God Bless!

There is an answer here, but not quite in this context. Some talk as if we are distant from an event. For those who mourn, you do not choose it, it is a reality, a wave of sadness that changes you.
So if meeting Jesus and knowing conviction and repentance does not change you, you have not yet met Christ.
It is the change within, new birth that is our cornerstone. Peter !oved Jesus, but not quite as deeply as he thought. That was a hard lesson. We often talk of Jesus like it is opening a door, accepting a few realities, but things just carry on.
Little wonder some say this cannot be lost, but I would ask what have they really found?
For some they cannot accept traditional faith, and do not disbelieve, so a worldly faith with no obligations does just fine. But this is air brush Christianity with no love and lots of self indulgence.

Little wonder they hate righteousness and Jesus's words. I often end in the bin, which testifies to light and darkness. One guy would lie and sin against me to try and get me to sin, because he hated followers of Jesus actually following and truly loving others, something he found impossible. God bless you brothers and sisters in Christ, the Holy people of God

 

[LightLoveHope]

What is necessary? Because one loves, one obeys and listens.
What is our commitment to God. 100%, because He is love and life.
And the more you walk the deeper it goes. Dwelling in His word, His heart, His intentions and desires leads us to life.

God came and spoke to me. He loves and cares for me and has given me a home that will never fade.
God. He knows me 100% and has forgiven me and will work with me.
Each day His word touches my heart. He is the air that I breath.
We hide our hurts like He will hurt us and not heal. He is the creator, so knowHis heart and intent.
The cross says it all, staggeringly blunt and so infinite. Amen

 

[Tharseo]

Cause those are the questions that come up with someone talking about or the ways some apply or interpret the commandments (all of them, and perfect law) to mean, (a standard of perfection) or make us or some question if that's what they mean...?

Can you tell us how we are doing that wrong, or where we are going wrong with it or that specifically...?

God Bless!

I mean, this is a very interesting thing indeed that people think the commmandments cannot be followed by normal people. Rather they are too "holy" that only the saints can follow them.

Psalms 103:14: "For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust."

God never tells us to do things we cannot do. He knows that we are weak.

Is there a commandment that you need to spend all your time to read the Bible and pray and preach the gospel? No. Rather, spend all your time in presense of God and in guidance of the Spirit, whether or not you are praying or watching football games.

Is there a commandment that you need to spend all your money for God only? No. Rather, spend them with care and thankfulness, for they are given to you by God.

Is there a commandment that you cannot have any entertainment? No. Rather, enjoy them without being controlled by them, for they are also given by God.

I think our standard of perfection have to change a bit, to be honest. Always walk in the Spirit, whatever you do. That's the entire key. To follow the commandments makes a person free, not in bondage of a bunch of rules.

And "perfection" is not absolute. When God says someone is a "perfect man" (e.g. Noah), He does not mean that the man is without fault. A person can be "more perfect" than another person, since this is a relative concept.

 

[Neogaia777]

A person can be "more perfect" than another person, since this is a relative concept.

Or people can be their own kind of perfection, since we each must be different and have at least some, if not minor, "differences" but each will be perfect in their own right, judged by God and a standard that might also be relative, but relative to such a one (God) judging knowing absolutely everything about that person perfectly and entirely down to the smallest detail, even very very much more than even that person knows themselves...

Anyway. we could each be our own kind of perfect also...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Or people can be their own kind of perfection, since we each must be different and have at least some, if not minor, "differences" but each will be perfect in their own right, judged by God and a standard that might also be relative, but relative to such a one (God) judging knowing absolutely everything about that person perfectly and entirely down to the smallest detail, even very very much more than even that person knows themselves...

Anyway. we could each be our own kind of perfect also...

God Bless!

I would look like from our perspective that everyone is being judged by a different standard, and how is that right or just or fair...? But, "one rule or standard across the board for everyone", is actually what is not right, good, or fair, or very just at all (their was and is one of those, and we all fail it)... And God is just, and it is actually the same standard, but it's not... It seems like it's not the same standard because of it's ignoring everything included in truly and justly or judging everyone by the same standard, which would appear as if everyone were not being judged by the same standard, when they/we actually are...

But, can we judge this way...? No we cannot...

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

Is it possible for one to "fall away" from, or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away" mean...? What does it look like...?

Can we define who is one who is, or has, "fallen away"...?

Discussion...?

God Bless!

I don't really know but if you can, it's only once:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (Hebrews 6:4-6)​

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't really know but if you can, it's only once:

I know, and did, or do, or can, or if they ever, ect, ect, right...?

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (Hebrews 6:4-6)

This has to be much different than simply "falling from Grace" as we say though, right...?

Cause I would like to talk about both, got any ideas...?

Like if so, what are those differences kind of thing...? And does it have to do with the possibility of some can be saved (again?) (if you have to be re-saved at any point?) (for another discussion...) Anyway, does it, or do those differences, have to do with those who can still be saved, (or re-saved or whatever, so to speak), do those differences have to do with those that can still be saved or be re-saved, (or reminded and reassured of their salvation), and those that just cannot any longer, or what...?

Anyway what are the different of the kind of "falling away" this passage talks about, and simply "falling from Grace" sometimes, basically...?

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

I know, and did, or do, or can, or if they ever, ect, ect, right...?

Honestly I don't think so, but since this is a vital doctrinal issue I am willing to meet someone half way. If I trust God to judge me, in fact, the whole world, I have to trust him for this. That is my most honest answer.

This has to be much different than simply "falling from Grace" as we say though, right...?

Of course.

Cause I would like to talk about both, got any ideas...?

Look, for me once the person is in Christ, there is no more likelyhood you will be cast out then Christ can be cast out of the Trinity. But ok, I can accept that there is a great deal about hidden motives and intentions that is purely the domain of the Omniscience of God.

Like if so, what are those differences kind of thing...? And does it have to do with the possibility of some can be saved (again?) (if you have to be re-saved at any point?) (for another discussion...) Anyway, does it, or do those differences, have to do with those who can still be saved, (or re-saved or whatever, so to speak), do those differences have to do with those that can still be saved or be re-saved, (or reminded and reassured of their salvation), and those that just cannot any longer, or what...?

Good questions, let me be as clear here as I can be, there is no such thing as 'resaved'. If you have everything required for salvation, including the interaction with the Holy Spirit and actually realizing the gospel, through the power of God, to 'fall away' is a permanent condition I like to refer to as perdition, which is the opposite of being born again. I walk a tight rope with my Calvinist brethren over this yet I disagree with none of their tenants or doctrines. I will concede only, that if you can lose your salvation you can lose it only once.

Anyway what are the different of the kind of "falling away" this passage talks about, and simply "falling from Grace" sometimes, basically...?

God Bless!

Frankly, there is no difference. To understand and to reject the gospel for any reason, you would have to discard grace. Your motives are not in my lane, I have no idea if that is because you stumbled into legalism or licentiousness, you are God's problem and there is a great deal he doesn't inform me about. I can tell you this, I would sooner deny my own soul then deny the grace of God because to me that would be the same thing. I don't consider myself a theologian, I'm just a guy who spent a lot of time on Bible study. When dealing with the various philosophies and theologies I have encountered I've found no more kindred spirit then Calvinism. I will never accept, because I have never experienced, anything requiring my merit in salvation. I plead the mercy of Christ, based on the promise of the gospel and will face my judge on that last day either robed in a righteousness not my own or covered in shame.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[anna ~ grace]

Is it possible for one to "fall away" from, or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away" mean...? What does it look like...?

Can we define who is one who is, or has, "fallen away"...?

Discussion...?

God Bless!

Yes, I think it is. One clue, I think, is whether or not one keeps Christ's commandments and has humily and love for others, love that works practically. One can talk much about Christ and have quite a lot of faith in Him, but fruits must also be there.

 

[mark kennedy]

Yes, I think it is. One clue, I think, is whether or not one keeps Christ's commandments and has humily and love for others, love that works practically. One can talk much about Christ and have quite a lot of faith in Him, but fruits must also be there.

That's all over the New Testament, you are my disciples if you have love for one another Jesus told his Apostles that last night. It's everywhere, it's in Galatians, 1 Corinthians 13 deals with it at length and Jesus makes it clear, the way you treat his, is how you treat him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is it possible for one to "fall away" from, or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away" mean...? What does it look like...?

Did you ever scale a sheer cliff, or climb a steep mountain several miles high ?
At the top is a flag. Or a cabin. The "reward". The goal.

Avalanche ? Ice storm ? -40 temperature ? Mountain lions ? (ravaging wolves)

Out of food and water ? Break a leg, arm, or have a heart attack ?
Become blind ?

Countless ways over time to "not endure to the end", not to make the mark. To give up.
To all away.

 

[mark kennedy]

Did you ever scale a sheer cliff, or climb a steep mountain several miles high ?
At the top is a flag. Or a cabin. The "reward". The goal.

Avalanche ? Ice storm ? -40 temperature ? Mountain lions ? (ravaging wolves)

Out of food and water ? Break a leg, arm, or have a heart attack ?
Become blind ?

Countless ways over time to "not endure to the end", not to make the mark. To give up.
To all away.

That is so dire Jeff, let's give God a little credit here. I don't believe God will let go of anyone who won't let go of him, at least that's been my experience. If you won't surrender your faith, God won't surrender you to death or hell. That's the promise of the gospel, of course, that is easier said then done but what choice does the believer have?

 

[Neogaia777]

Honestly I don't think so, but since this is a vital doctrinal issue I am willing to meet someone half way. If I trust God to judge me, in fact, the whole world, I have to trust him for this. That is my most honest answer.



Of course.



Look, for me once the person is in Christ, there is no more likelyhood you will be cast out then Christ can be cast out of the Trinity. But ok, I can accept that there is a great deal about hidden motives and intentions that is purely the domain of the Omniscience of God.



Good questions, let me be as clear here as I can be, there is no such thing as 'resaved'. If you have everything required for salvation, including the interaction with the Holy Spirit and actually realizing the gospel, through the power of God, to 'fall away' is a permanent condition I like to refer to as perdition, which is the opposite of being born again. I walk a tight rope with my Calvinist brethren over this yet I disagree with none of their tenants or doctrines. I will concede only, that if you can lose your salvation you can lose it only once.



Frankly, there is no difference. To understand and to reject the gospel for any reason, you would have to discard grace. Your motives are not in my lane, I have no idea if that is because you stumbled into legalism or licentiousness, you are God's problem and there is a great deal he doesn't inform me about. I can tell you this, I would sooner deny my own soul then deny the grace of God because to me that would be the same thing. I don't consider myself a theologian, I'm just a guy who spent a lot of time on Bible study. When dealing with the various philosophies and theologies I have encountered I've found no more kindred spirit then Calvinism. I will never accept, because I have never experienced, anything requiring my merit in salvation. I plead the mercy of Christ, based on the promise of the gospel and will face my judge on that last day either robed in a righteousness not my own or covered in shame.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I'm sorry if I offended in anyway, but, I'm trying to figure out if I'm wasting my time with certain people, mainly those of Law and works and their own will, ect...?

How very hardheaded some of them are and sometimes strongly rejecting true Grace and Mercy and Love sometimes, and declare those truly of it their enemies, say they are wrong, blasphemers, sinners, ect, and sometimes it even leads to persecution of them, those that are "truly of it", from them that think and insist they are truly of it, and the others are not, ect...

And this is because some say that those who have "fallen away" in NT times, were Jews that converted to Christianity, but then went back to works of Law, (still professing to a Christian or not, I do not know...?) and they were trying to influence or teach other Christians to do or being doing the same thing, works of Law, to be saved, ect, and Paul, I think said, to "get rid of these ones" basically, cast them out, do not associate with them, ect, they have "fallen away" ect... That this message was in direct opposition to the Gospel of Grace and is a false gospel, ect...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes, I think it is. One clue, I think, is whether or not one keeps Christ's commandments and has humily and love for others, love that works practically. One can talk much about Christ and have quite a lot of faith in Him, but fruits must also be there.

What are the, or Christ's Commandments...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes, I think it is. One clue, I think, is whether or not one keeps Christ's commandments and has humily and love for others, love that works practically. One can talk much about Christ and have quite a lot of faith in Him, but fruits must also be there.

I think the keeping of any commandments must be a fruit and not a root, or plant that is not yet in it's due season, or out of season, (although their was this one fig tree...?) (anyway), which requires you to plant something, what would you think that is...?

God Bless!