Is it possible for one to "fall away" or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away"?

[Oldmantook]

Not really. The scripture doesn't mean that Judas was elected and no where is it mentioned. Jesus simply stated that those His Father gave to Him, He kept and lost none.
The Word 'gave' is didomi in Greek which means to give one to someone to follow him as a leader/or simply permit. This doesn't mean Judas was elected as you put it.

In John 13, we see two parallels; Peter vs Judas. When our Lord decides to wash His disciples feet, Peter desires that to have his hands, head washed too. Jesus responds "you are clean through the Word I have already spoken" implying that Peter was clean at heart(salvation) and only needed to have his feet washed. Feet denote walking in this salvation.

However, in vs 10;
Jesus said to him(Peter), “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”
‭‭John‬ ‭13:10-11‬ ‭
Judas was not clean(Katharos in Greek which means pure, innocent, guiltless, blameless). He was unclean at heart.
Judas was not chosen of the LORD for good (vs 18) yet scripture in Ephesians 2:8-10 shows that those are saved by grace through faith are His workmanship in ordained for good works chosen beforehand that they should walk in them.
So if Judas wasn't chosen for good works, was he among the elect?NO

May I suggest you study soteriological doctrine. Are you aware what election entails? Election as defined by Reformed theology defines that those who are of the elect are believers who are chosen by the Father and given to the Son. It is entirely the Father's will who he chooses/elects and who he does not choose/elects. According to Reformed theology, he chooses to save some and bypasses others. Jn 17:6,9,11,12 reference Judas and the other disciples as being given to Jesus by the Father. Elect/election in Scripture never references unbelievers.

 

[Oldmantook]

The saved in Christ cannot worship the Beast.
That verse is to those who are already saved and to encourage them to be steadfast in the faith , not to obtain .

Of course it encourages them to be steadfast. To do otherwise and accept the mark results in their spiritual death. If you took the mark, are you still saved? Yes or No? Is it impossible for you to take the mark? Yes or No? Peter thought is was impossible for him to deny Jesus. We can all learn from Peter's error can't we?

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Of course it encourages them to be steadfast. To do otherwise and accept the mark results in their spiritual death. If you took the mark, are you still saved? Yes or No? Is it impossible for you to take the mark? Yes or No? Peter thought is was impossible for him to deny Jesus. We can all learn from Peter's error can't we?

A saved child of God cannot receive the mark of the Beast.
Peter denying God is greatly different then accepting and receiving the mark of the Beast.

 

[Cnnsdc63]

Of course it encourages them to be steadfast. To do otherwise and accept the mark results in their spiritual death. If you took the mark, are you still saved? Yes or No? Is it impossible for you to take the mark? Yes or No? Peter thought is was impossible for him to deny Jesus. We can all learn from Peter's error can't we?

Yes, Peter denied Jesus three times. Yet Jesus made sure he knew he was forgiven three times. How Jesus handled Peter is one of the many good reasons I don’t worry about “ the mark” I let Jesus worry about those thing for me.

 

[Tharseo]

I’ve read through these posts and can’t help but feel a lot people put limits on Jesus Christ. He allowed himself to be put on a cross and crucified for all sins. Past, present and future sins with no limits. Your “work” is to believe in him, once you belong to him, he promised he will not ever lose you. You my have little faith, you may feel you have no faith. You will make mistakes, you will sin. It’s doesn’t matter, it’s now Christ’s faith and perfection that covers you. The mercy and grace via Jesus Christ is bigger and better than anything you or anyone could possibly ever do or think to do. Not one of us deserve these blessings, but the are freely given to us by way of Jesus Christ. If you read this as a license to go blantently sin and do wrong your missing the message.

Very interesting post. I am glad that you brought that up. It makes me think.

Three problems I have in my mind after reading it:

1. Is there a limit on who can be saved? If not, is it true that everyone including non-Christian can be saved? If yes, where is the line drawn between those who are saved and those who are not saved, and why is it the way you draw the line?

2. Is it true that all sins, including the sins committed in the future, are forgiven already? Why, then, do we still keep on repenting? I think that seems like a license for me to commit sin without a care in the world.

3. Do you think that a person could lose God, even God never wants to lose the person? If no, do you mean that God's will is so irresistible that no human being could ever do what they want? Then why are there still non-Christians in this world?

I think you know the answer from me. But I truly wants an honest answer from you too.

 

[Cnnsdc63]

Very interesting post. I am glad that you brought that up. It makes me think.

Three problems I have in my mind after reading it:

1. Is there a limit on who can be saved? If not, is it true that everyone including non-Christian can be saved? If yes, where is the line drawn between those who are saved and those who are not saved, and why is it the way you draw the line?

2. Is it true that all sins, including the sins committed in the future, are forgiven already? Why, then, do we still keep on repenting? I think that seems like a license for me to commit sin without a care in the world.

3. Do you think that a person could lose God, even God never wants to lose the person? If no, do you mean that God's will is so irresistible that no human being could ever do what they want? Then why are there still non-Christians in this world?

I think you know the answer from me. But I truly wants an honest answer from you too.

Good questions!

1. Yes anyone can choose to be saved. Those who choose to “believe in the one who was sent” are saved. Their is no other line. The worst person you can think of can become saved.

2. Great question. You don’t need to repent. Jesus did it for you. You either believe Jesus took the sins of the world once and for all or you don’t. What more can you possibly do aside from faith than what Jesus did ? You are given unlimited grace and mercy through faith in Jesus Christ. It’s God’s gift, we don’t deserve it. We all have sinned and will sin. Go rob a bank or do something else not good, you may cause yourself problems down here, but in Gods eyes you will still be as faultless and blameless as Jesus Christ. However having this type of mercy and grace takes a lot of bad things out of people,it’s not in your heart to do them and people tend to lead better lives. If nothing else, remember you are not ruled by laws. You are ruled by Jesus Christ’s grace and mercy.

3. Jesus promised he will never leave you. Again, he doesn’t give conditions. If he did give conditions apart from faith in Jesus Christ’s perfection, we would all be in a lot of trouble.

I try very hard not to be proud of myself. Everything good thing I have or have done comes from Jesus Christ. Thank God it not of myself. (Pun intended)

 

[Neogaia777]

.

 

[Tharseo]

Good questions!

1. Yes anyone can choose to be saved. Those who choose to “believe in the one who was sent” are saved. Their is no other line. The worst person you can think of can become saved.

2. Great question. You don’t need to repent. Jesus did it for you. You either believe Jesus took the sins of the world once and for all or you don’t. What more can you possibly do aside from faith than what Jesus did ? You are given unlimited grace and mercy through faith in Jesus Christ. It’s God’s gift, we don’t deserve it. We all have sinned and will sin. Go rob a bank or do something else not good, you may cause yourself problems down here, but in Gods eyes you will still be as faultless and blameless as Jesus Christ. However having this type of mercy and grace takes a lot of bad things out of people,it’s not in your heart to do them and people tend to lead better lives. If nothing else, remember you are not ruled by laws. You are ruled by Jesus Christ’s grace and mercy.

3. Jesus promised he will never leave you. Again, he doesn’t give conditions. If he did give conditions apart from faith in Jesus Christ’s perfection, we would all be in a lot of trouble.

I try very hard not to be proud of myself. Everything good thing I have or have done comes from Jesus Christ. Thank God it not of myself. (Pun intended)

One more question.

Then why is it so, that Jesus commands us to love God and neighbours as ourselves, and many more commandments given in, for example, the Sermon of the Mount? Do you suggest that they are optional, that it does not matter even if you ignores all of them?

 

[watchman 2]

Neglect of prayer.
Following a far off.
Substitute action for Faith.
Rejecting Christ.

The Bible describes falling away like snow melting. It happens so slowly, one doesn't realize it until it's gone .

 

[Cnnsdc63]

One more question.

Then why is it so, that Jesus commands us to love God and neighbours as ourselves, and many more commandments given in, for example, the Sermon of the Mount? Do you suggest that they are optional, that it does not matter even if you ignores all of them?

Good question,

I bought a steak dinner today. Should I have given that money to my church and maybe settled for a bowl of oatmeal? Should I have bought my neighbor a steak dinner? Should I have given that money for my steak to my church and given my bowl of oatmeal to my neighbor. I was watching a football game , while eating my steak and thought some of the cheerleaders where pretty hot ! Should I have been reading my bible and praying instead of watching football. I guess I committed a lot of different sins. Where is that line ? Should I be condemned now? Should I lose my salvation ? I almost forgot, someone else had a lobster dinner, I thought it looked better than mine and I wish I would have had the lobster ( chalk me up for another one}. I wonder who was perfect today. Jesus ?

 

[Tharseo]

Good question,

I bought a steak dinner today. Should I have given that money to my church and maybe settled for a bowl of oatmeal? Should I have bought my neighbor a steak dinner? Should I have given that money for my steak to my church and given my bowl of oatmeal to my neighbor. I was watching a football game , while eating my steak and thought some of the cheerleaders where pretty hot ! Should I have been reading my bible and praying instead of watching football. I guess I committed a lot of different sins. Where is that line ? Should I be condemned now? Should I lose my salvation ? I almost forgot, someone else had a lobster dinner, I thought it looked better than mine and I wish I would have had the lobster ( chalk me up for another one}. I wonder who was perfect today. Jesus ?

Does one who closely follows the commandment of the Lord, is required to stop eating steak dinner and watching football games? Do you find any commandment that stops you to do so? Healthy behaviours are never sins, as long as you control them and not be controlled by them.

So I don't see how this answers my question.

 

[Oldmantook]

A saved child of God cannot receive the mark of the Beast.
Peter denying God is greatly different then accepting and receiving the mark of the Beast.

No scripture to back up you claim? Is not worshiping the beast the same as denying Christ? I find your assertions to lack any merit.

 

[Oldmantook]

Yes, Peter denied Jesus three times. Yet Jesus made sure he knew he was forgiven three times. How Jesus handled Peter is one of the many good reasons I don’t worry about “ the mark” I let Jesus worry about those thing for me.

That is your prerogative. Peter was forgiven. Taking the mark has no forgiveness. Big difference.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Of course one could lose their Salvation—- If Jesus is a liar.
Personally, I think Jesus spoke the Truth when He made this promise—“Those that Believe in the Son HATH Eternal Life and shall NEVER come into condemnation”.Do you Legalists understand what “ never” means?

So what you are saying is once you believe you lose your free will and can no longer stop believing? That verse uses the word belief in an active way. Those that currently believe. SO if someone stops believing wouldn't the verse no longer apply? But of course I'm just one of those "legalists" you must be referring to.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Once saved always saved is the most cancerous, unbiblical doctrine to ever be invented in our later times (because it didn't exist until the last 150 years).

Every single verse used to support this doctrine takes verses about active belief and twists them into some kind of calvanistic predestination doublethink.

For Example:

Romans 10:9-10
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Now while a verbal confession may be a one time event, belief is not. The verse does not say "if you believe for a moment", it says "and believe"

SO when you stop believing the verse no longer applies to you because you have stopped fulfilling the conditions. Its a simple concept that everyone understood until John Calvin claimed the Catholic church was essentially stressing out the faithful too much by telling them they actually had to live moral lives to acquire the kingdom of heaven like Christ taught. God forbid someone be concerned about being closer to Christ's holiness. Now we have a bunch of confused people going to altar call over and over again because they didn't feel a certain way the last time they went so something must have been wrong and it wasn't their "moment". It's an utterly ridiculous idea and it is destroying western Christianity.

Sorry if I seem volatile but I came from a Baptist upbringing and have seen this doctrine destroy people's faith including my own for a short time.

 

[UnprofitableServant]

Enduring to the end will be saved, prove that that is talking about eternal life and not an actual physical life saving from harm.

I must be either misinterpreting what you are saying here.

Are you saying that the scripture I quoted of Jesus saying "He who endures until the end will be saved", does not deal with eternal life?

In peace

 

[Tharseo]

I must be either misinterpreting what you are saying here.

Are you saying that the scripture I quoted of Jesus saying "He who endures until the end will be saved", does not deal with eternal life?

In peace

To bring up again the debate is not what I want, but I feel responsible since I start arguing for your point.

Actually, would you prove the opposite? How is this verse talking about "an actual physical life saving from harm"? Is it true that God promised a Christian will have an actual physical life saving from harm?

Their are many times throughout the Bible of God saving believers from harm, Daniel in the lions den, God saved Paul many times and there are also examples when a believer sins and God takes their life, they do not loose their eternal life but they loose their physical life here on earth ananias and sapphira any many believers lost their physical lives at the Lords supper (1 Corinthians 11) but they did not loose their eternal life.

Hebrews 11:36-38
Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated—of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

I am actually quite annoyed by the idea that people think God promised to save us from harm physically. Spiritually, yes, but there is no promise for physical life. God may occasionally save us from harm physically. See the history of Church in the early 1st-3rd century. "Enduring to the end will be saved" is a promise that must be fulfilled whenever the condition is met, for God is faithful.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Is it possible for one to "fall away" from, or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away" mean...? What does it look like...?

Can we define who is one who is, or has, "fallen away"...?

Discussion...?

God Bless!

The eternal sheep, who God foreknew will never fall away.
Those who have Gods word planted in their hearts, who are transformed and walk in maturity in the Spirit, appear to have arrived at the walk.

Those who have listened and are discovering and experiencing God at first and are not quite sure of the battles and issues, could fall away and Jesus testifies to this happening in the seed and sower parable.

Our security is in knowing Jesus, His love and the cross.
We can harden our hearts and become dull to God.

There are many warnings as to the nature of being in the Kingdom.
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 1 Thess 4:7

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do;
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 1 Peter 1:15-16

Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace
2 Cor 13:11

These are difficult ambitions, and some would say impossible.

Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:8-10

let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds
Heb 10:22-24

Many who claim you can never lose ones salvation, have not begun to address the issues above so I wonder if they have actually met Jesus as all. It is therefore difficult to discuss such a topic, until one is grounded in the doorway and the path we are called to walk.

Some claim that there is no path, only Jesus, and we arrive when we believe, except their meaning believe is just an acceptance of the sin transaction, not the transformation or the walk. Once believing is actually walking, following and obeying Christ, not doing so, becomes a denial of faith. Subtly the language has been shifted so believe is a trust in being saved, without a response in ones life being necessary. This shift has led to easy believism, and a view that often is gnostic in its outworkings. It is therefore difficult to talk about these issues in isolation, as ones whole salvation and redemption is wrapped up in can it be lost.

 

[LightLoveHope]

No a person once given eternal life can not loose God's gift of eternal life.

Can we be given eternal life, or is eternal life life that goes on forever?
Another phrase in scripture that is used is "not perish", not "see death", not "die".

Paul says this
God "will give to each person according to what he has done."
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger
Rom 2:6-8

Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness
2 Tim 2:19

They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
2 Thess 2:10-12

People can easily claim faith, believe they are saved yet continue in wickedness and evil deeds. It is clear that these people believe in vain and have not grasped the way of Christ and His Holiness. For we are called to be temples of the Holy Spirit, purified and made Holy.

How can an uncleansed heart be a vessel of the Holy Spirit, or a life that has not been redeemed and changed have any hope to become eternal and dwell with Christ?

 

[aiki]

Is it possible for one to "fall away" from, or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away" mean...? What does it look like...?

Can we define who is one who is, or has, "fallen away"...?

Discussion...?

God Bless!

Is it possible to fall away from, or lose one's salvation? Only in the case of a false convert, a "tare" in the Church, one who was never truly born-again in the first place.