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Featured Is it normal for Christians to have opposing views?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by JohnB445, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    A Christian that believes in annihilation or universalism.
     
  2. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    LOL - you didn't really read what I wrote did you?
     
  3. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    To believe in annihilation would be to make the atonement impossible; for if the punishment for sin was annihilation, what would that have meant for Jesus? (For if he be not raised, you are yet in your sin).

    Universalism you'd think "might" be a little more "excusable".
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Actually, I was working from your statements about your views on the subject of denominations given in such posts as 23 and 28.
     
  5. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Member

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    Annihilation of what? I cant see anyone believing in universalism becoming a NT Christian.
     
  6. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    So I hope you are not referring to regeneration by water baptism. One is to be baptized in the Spirit (and no, this does not mean modern pentecostalism).

    Outside of that question. I think you have picked good and clear verses.

    Faith is required - now depending on who you ask (the "Calvinist" or "Arminian") where does that faith come from?

    Believers will profess.

    Believers are commanded to repent.

    We are also commanded to believe, but "faith" and "belief" are the same Greek words.
     
  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Universalism as in universal salvation.
     
  8. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    I think this suggestion is reasonable and useful when dealing with other cultures. Yet I think we all need to acknowledge that our cultural interpretation is not the "be all" and "end all" of truth.
     
  9. Just_a_Christian

    Just_a_Christian Member

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    The New Testament baptism by immersion where our prior sins are forgiven.

    And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. - Acts 22:16

    And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. - Acts 8:36-37
     
  10. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    The sinner's soul gets destroyed.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    According to Matthew 10:28
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    like OSAS and eternal hell and praying to the dead?

    Certainly that is true they can believe that and still be saved.
     
  13. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    Although yes we are water baptized and we are commanded to be water baptized. Yet water baptism itself is not actually what washes away our sin. We know this because the thief on the cross was not water baptized, yet it's clear he was atoned for. And I'm sure there are situations people find themselves in where they become believers and die before they are able to be baptized.

    Note Acts 22:16 ".... arise, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling upon the name of the Lord." It doesn't say be baptized washing away your sin / connecting the washing of the sin to the baptism. It says be baptized and wash away your sins. What is actually doing the washing? (Calling upon the name of the Lord.)

    1 John 1:7 It's the blood of Christ that cleanses one of their sin.

    1 Peter 1:18-19 also says it's the blood of Christ that cleanses people.
     
  14. Artra

    Artra The unforgivable sin is not repenting

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    The only doctrine that is quintessential is the one that Jesus brought forth that fulfilled the doctrine of old. The only outlook on His doctrine that matters is the one the Holy Spirit is guiding you towards. If you have the Holy Spirit you don't have to force your outlook on anyone that is truly pursuing it because the Spirit's energy will radiate in you. Meditate and pray on God's Word, let the Spirit reside and grow within you, and you won't have any doubt when another Christian comes to you with strange doctrine.
     
  15. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    Except condemnation is eternal. Revelation 14:11.
    "Hell" which is a place of holding in this life, gets case into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    No doubt - but in the context of Matthew 10:28
    "28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

    As we also see of Satan - the once "covering Cherub" in heaven.

    Ezek 28
    16 “By the abundance of your trading
    You became filled with violence within,
    And you sinned;
    Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
    Out of the mountain of God;
    And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
    From the midst of the fiery stones.

    17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
    You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
    I cast you to the ground,
    I laid you before kings,
    That they might gaze at you.

    18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
    By the multitude of your iniquities,
    By the iniquity of your trading;
    Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
    It devoured you,
    And I turned you to ashes
    upon the earth
    In the sight of all who saw you.
    19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
    You have become a horror,
    And shall be no more forever.”
    ’ ”
     
  17. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    The Old Testament and New Testament aren't usually referred to as "doctrine"; yet I suppose that if one is examining what the two are saying, they would be looking at "doctrine"; so what you are saying there could loosely apply.

    People who are regenerated by the Spirit are going to be seeking truth. I agree with that also. But they don't need "Spirit energy radiating from you" when He indwells them Himself.

    Also, our understanding of doctrine does not come from "letting the Spirit grow". It comes from reading the Scripture. If you don't want to be led astray than; it behoves you to know what's written in the book.
     
  18. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Active Member

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    So do you think its Satan who's destroying the body and soul; not God?

    Is Jesus telling us to fear Satan? That does not make any contextual sense. Christ defeated Satan. So if we are translated out of the kingdom of darkness, why should we fear Satan?

    The penalty of atoning for sin is the wrath of God, not the wrath of Satan, because he's in the same place, enduring his own special version of God's wrath.
     
  19. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    IMHO there's Christianity and there's religion. I think many that attend church may be Christian but also in reality serve their church more than they serve God. They mix them up and together.
     
  20. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    I believe that as long as a person comes to Jesus for salvation and remains in that faith until they die than they are saved.

    Why? Because that's what happened to me. When I got saved I didn't believe in the Trinity or any of the doctrines that people say you have to believe in order to be saved. Well I did believe in Jesus's death burial and resurrection and I do believe that when I came to Jesus for salvation I called him Lord. But anyway after I went to Jesus for salvation and accepted him as my Lord and savior that night I had a vision and I saw the silhouette of Jesus Christ and I saw the Holy Spirit. I saw myself be born again.

    But up until a few years ago in my like 8 year long Christian Journey I didn't believe that Jesus was God. I didn't believe in the Trinity either or in eternal security Sola Scriptura any of that. Of course I believe in all of that NOW. I asked God that if they were all true to reveal them to me like Jesus gave me the holy spirit and showed me in that vision that he was clearly God. But I didn't interpret my vision that way at the time. Anyway a few years ago I just literally woke up one day believing in the trinity. And over time I've come to believe in the things that people say are necessary for salvation.

    I mean. People who don't have the Holy Spirit living inside of them will show two signs. One they abandon the faith and two they don't show any fruit. There are Christians across all denominations that believe all of the "right" things yet they'll lack a belief in something clearly stated in the scriptures like Eternal Security for example. But yet they're just as saved as any other Christian. Just because they cannot understand the Bible doesn't mean that they aren't saved.
     
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