Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

[SabbathBlessings]

You have free will to believe what you want, but the context is telling the story better than you.

Mark 2:27 is about the disciples of Jesus working on Sabbath and Jesus argues that its fine.

The disciples never sinned by eating on the Sabbath - eating to stay heathy is not sinning or working- do you care to back up your argument through scripture? Where in God's word does it say we cannot eat on the Sabbath- you are taking the side of the Pharisees.

 

[trophy33]

The disciples never sinned and eating on the Sabbath is not sinning or working- do you care to back up your argument through scripture?

The disciples never sinned? What?

Dont you know what texts you are using? Its not about eating, but about working on Sabbath (in the field).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The disciples never sinned? What?

Dont you know what texts you are using? Its not about eating, but about working on Sabbath (in the field).

By eating on the Sabbath, the disciples did not sin......there was no working in the fields. They were not harvesting grain, they were plucking the tops and eating while walking, not a sin. No different than picking an apple off a tree and eating it. Please show me in scripture where that is a sin. You seem to be missing the whole point of Jesus correcting the Pharisees.

 

[HIM]

The disciples never sinned? What?

Dont you know what texts you are using? Its not about eating, but about working on Sabbath (in the field).

That is what the Pharisees judged. And this was prior to the new covenant being established. They were wrong then. So?

 

[HIM]

Sad story being told considering the question in the poll was in relation to the thread and only one person stood firm in their conviction.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sad story being told considering the question in the poll was in relation to the thread and only one person stood firm in their conviction.

I misunderstood the poll, because it didn't say on the Sabbath, but since that was the intent, I will change my answer.

 

[trophy33]

By eating on the Sabbath, the disciples did not sin......there was no working in the fields. They were not harvesting grain, they were plucking the tops and eating while walking, not a sin. No different than picking an apple off a tree and eating it. Please show me in scripture where that is a sin. You seem to be missing the whole point of Jesus correcting the Pharisees.

You seem to be missing the whole point of Jesus correcting the Pharisees.

You think He said "no, you are mistaken, they did not work". He did not. He did not argue against the point of Pharisees, He, instead, said that they are allowed to work on Sabbath, because He is greater than Sabbath (He said it in more words, beginning with David etc.).

 

[trophy33]

That is what the Pharisees judged. And this was prior to the new covenant being established. They were wrong then. So?

They were not wrong about His disciples doing what was not allowed to do on Sabbath. They were wrong about the importance of Jesus - that He is greater than Sabbath (i.e. not limited by it).

 

[Studyman]

I agree with every word you wrote. My problem came when I remembered Romans 14. Some people will esteem a day more than another will. A man may keep the sabbath his entire life I think the best it might get him over those who don't keep the sabbath, is more rewards in Heaven?

Rom. 14: 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

You can't "make" someone honor God in His Instruction. Honor, obedience, humility and respect must come from within, from the heart. It matters little what one man, weak in the faith "Esteems". What is important is to SEEK the Righteousness of the One True God, to know Him and to understand what HE Esteems, and then join with Him as every example of Faith in the Bible does.

There can be no doubt, according to the Christ of the Bible, that HE Esteems one day above another, and has clearly instructed His People to do likewise as the Commandment instructs. A true believer will come to this knowledge and be persuaded in his own mind who he should "Yield Himself" servants to obey as Paul teaches in Roman's 6.

Will the religions of this world try to turn him away from this One True God? Of course, this is why Faith is so important.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This world has always rejected God's Sabbaths and Judgments. We are in this world, but are not supposed to "yield ourselves" to its religious traditions, in my view.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You seem to be missing the whole point of Jesus correcting the Pharisees.

You think He said "no, you are mistaken, they did not work". He did not. He did not argue against the point of Pharisees, He, instead, said that they are allowed to work on Sabbath, because He is greater than Sabbath (He said it in more words, beginning with David etc.).

Well, please prove that eating on the Sabbath is a sin or eating is working. That is what the Pharisees were accusing the apostles of doing. Jesus in no way said doing work on the Sabbath is okay therefore we no longer need to keep the Sabbath- never stated or implied by Jesus. Jesus kept the commandments of God John 15:10 including the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and is our example 1 John 2:6 and Jesus is not advocating that the Sabbath can be broken, but was teaching the Pharisees that adding their man-made rules to God's commandments is not following the commandment as they were making the Sabbath a burden instead of the blessing it is meant to be Isaiah 58:13-14, 1 John 5:3 No sin to eat on the Sabbath nor is it working. To make your theory work you will need to provide scripture showing where in the commandment is one forbidden to eat or that eating is working.

 

[trophy33]

Well, please prove that eating on the Sabbath is a sin, lets start with that.

Why would I do that? This is not my claim. Read more carefully, it will make the conversation much more effective. My posts are not long, so it should not be a problem.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why would I do that? This is not my claim. Read more carefully, it will make the conversation much more effective. My posts are not long, so it should not be a problem.

Here's your post

You think He said "no, you are mistaken, they did not work". He did not. He did not argue against the point of Pharisees, He, instead, said that they are allowed to work on Sabbath, because He is greater than Sabbath (He said it in more words, beginning with David etc.).

Where in scripture did Jesus say they were allowed to work on the Sabbath? Where in scripture is eating considered working? The example of David was also eating, so please show me where that is "working" through scripture, not your words.

Jesus never said He is greater than the Sabbath- He is said He Lord of the Sabbath Mark 2:28 which He created/made for man Mark 2:27 and is meant to be a blessing and eating on the Sabbath is not a sin or considered work. The Pharisee's were adding their rules to God's rules, making the Sabbath about man-made rules instead of the blessing it is meant to be for mankind, spending time with God on the day He set aside- sanctified and made holy that eating is allowed on.

 

[trophy33]

Here's your post

Where in scripture did Jesus say they were allowed to work on the Sabbath? Where in scripture is eating considered working? The example of David was also eating, so please show me where that is "working" through scripture, not your words.

Jesus never said He is greater than the Sabbath- He is said He Lord of the Sabbath Mark 2:28 which He created/made for man Mark 2:27 and is meant to be a blessing and eating on the Sabbath is not a sin or considered work. The Pharisee's were adding their rules to God's rules, making the Sabbath about man-made rules instead of the blessing it is meant to be for mankind, spending time with God on the day He set aside- sanctified and made holy that eating is allowed on.

Breaking the Sabbath was not the act of eating (Jews could eat on Sabbath), but the act of working to get the grains from the field.

One Sabbath Jesus was passing through the grainfields, and His disciples began to pick the heads of grain, rub them in their hands, and eat them. But some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
Lk 6:1

or, another version in Mathew:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

Jesus replied, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for them to eat, but only for the priests.

Or haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and yet are innocent? But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

If only you had known the meaning of ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

It frequently seems to me you do not bother to read the texts you use, properly.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Breaking the Sabbath was not the act of eating (Jews could eat on Sabbath), but the act of working to get the grains from the field.

One Sabbath Jesus was passing through the grainfields, and His disciples began to pick the heads of grain, rub them in their hands, and eat them. But some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
Lk 6:1

or, another version in Mathew:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

Jesus replied, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for them to eat, but only for the priests.

Or haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and yet are innocent? But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

If only you had known the meaning of ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

It frequently seems to me you do not bother to read the texts you use, properly.

Plucking the tops of grain and eating is not working, preaching the Word of God on the Sabbath, not breaking the Sabbath, which is why they are held blameless, but I will leave you to your beliefs, which is similar to the Pharisees who made the accusation just like they did when they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath and not being equal to God.

 

[Leaf473]

It kind of sounds like the degree of effort could be the key.

Plucking part of the wheat plant and removing the non-edible parts isn't enough effort to qualify as work.

Suppose the lawn mowing is done with a riding lawn mower. That would require very little effort.

 

[trophy33]

Plucking the tops of grain and eating is not working, preaching the Word of God on the Sabbath, not breaking the Sabbath, which is why they are held blameless, but I will leave you to your beliefs, which is similar to the Pharisees who made the accusation just like they did when they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath and not being equal to God.

Again, you are ignoring the text. Jesus did not argue "it is allowed". He argues in a totally different way, read it. In all three gospels, if you need.

Edit: English

 

[DamianWarS]

keeping the sabbath

This term is probably the largest difference. Defined in an old covenant it means very specific instructions, broadly the command to cease work. But this is only in a old covenant vacuum. We have the greater revelation and a fuller picture of what role the 4th command has.

Fundamentally the 4th is inherited from to 7th day. The 4th does not define the 7th day but rather the 7th defines the 4th commandment. Going back to the 7th day it is not Infact about ceasing, it is about completion.

God does not arbitrarily stop working he also does not stop because he is tired, he stops because the work is finished. For example if I'm finished digging a hole a stop digging a hole not because it's quiting time or I'm tired, but because the job is complete so there is no need to continue to dig.

In fact the entire creation account is a salvation metaphor where we start in darkness, light is spoken into us starting a process that ends in completion. The NT calls this the new creation (2 Cor 5:17) and yes the language is intentional saying old things have passed away revealing the creation account is actually about salvation through Christ. This is also revealed in 2 Cor 4:6 and this work in progress as a Christian can be seen throughout such as James 1:4.

This process of completion is the goal in the new creation to finish the work of Christ in us to ushers in completion, and this state of completion in Christ is a parallel to the 7th day. This is what the 7th points to and by inheritance this is what the 4th commandment echos.

The 7th day/creation account has many layers, it forshadows Christ. ie. God sends light into darkness, Christ "utters it is finished" on the 6th day, (lit. and symbolically) which is his completed work, then resting in the grave, then reapting the 1st when light is spoken a new or his resurrection. Creation forshadows the restituion of all things, the resurrection even the second comming of Christ. It is a base typology account with a base structure that is repeated and echoed through out time.

when I hear people limiting the 7th day to a old covenant vacuum it's grossly lacking and just plain misinformation. We can react to the 7th day using all revealed revelation we have access to not just what's written on tablets explicitly revealed as "the two tablets or covenant law" (Ex 31:18) that covenant is the mosaic covenant which the tablets are under, rather than regarded as universal moral law they are old covenant law rooted in universal constructs.

 

[DamianWarS]

No different than picking an apple off a tree and eating it.

No different than picking manna off the ground.... oh wait

 

[freeinhim3]

We should really strive to understand what the text is really saying.

I noticed that when somebody tries to prove their minority view (like Seventh Day Adventists), they use biblical texts only for proving their ideas, not bothering to read them carefully for what they really say and if the context/culture was about their idea at all.

Just a surface reading, taking some few words out of the context and reading their theological views into it.

The most flagrant breaking of the ten commandments I have witnessed in any church in the past forty years was in a church that worshipped on a Saturday.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No different than picking manna off the ground.... oh wait

Gathering two days worth of food (like grocery shopping) is different than eating a piece of grain when hungry on the Sabbath

The principle difference is found here…

Deut. 23:25 When you come into your neighbor’s standing grain, you may pluck the heads with your hand, but you shall not use a sickle on your neighbor’s standing grain.