Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

[Leaf473]

It seems maybe you should consider ALL the Words of the Christ of the Bible, regarding His Sabbath. In your religion, this is the Christ, Yes? Who became a man in the Person of Jesus?

Is. 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Perhaps it would be better for the widow to share the Christ's Words with her, and not your own opinions or religion. Surely that would be something to consider.

Oh yes, I believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Messiah.

There are additional passages that also relate to Sabbath activities, are there not?

 

[Leaf473]

Pagans throughout history lived by the same rule, not "Seeing" the wisdom of God, nor the morality of obedience to His Commandments. It's a "Glorify God as God thing".

I believe you already talked about how there was no obvious difference between the seventh day and other days, someone has to tell you.

But there is an obvious moral aspect to mowing a disabled widows lawn.

Ask someone in a hunter-gatherer culture if it's a good thing to repair a roof leak in Elder Mama's lodge. The obvious answer is Yes, everyone can see it.

 

[Leaf473]

So does the world and their lord.

Kind of harsh, don't you think, HIM?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 3:2 - New American Standard Bible

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,

www.biblegateway.com

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree with every word you wrote.

Me too

My problem came when I remembered Romans 14.

What does Romans 14 have to do with the Sabbath commandment? In all of Romans 14, the Sabbath is not mentioned once, nor is it about one of God's commandments.

Some people will esteem a day more than another will.

That's true, but what day people esteem over another, is not the same as the day God esteems over all other days. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23.

A man may keep the sabbath his entire life I think the best it might get him over those who don't keep the sabbath, is more rewards in Heaven?

One should obey God because they have a changed heart, they no longer want to live a life of flesh, but live according to the will of God, walking in His Spirit. Hebrews 8:10 Romans 8:4-8 Psalms 40:8 Breaking the Sabbath commandment is a sin, just like it is a sin to worship other gods, covet or murder. You break one commandment you break them all James 2:10 sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten to define sin Romans 7:7 The point of the Sabbath is to spend time with God on the day He set aside to be sanctified for holy use and the day to honor God. Isaiah 58:13

The man who does not hold to keeping the sabbath will still be in Heaven.

According to the scriptures it says Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Did Jesus keep the commandments and the Sabbath? Yes, and we ought to also walk as He walked.

I personally believe that, if God had His way, the entire earth would observe the Sabbath. I expect that when we all go to heaven that the Sabbath will still be kept?

Do you really think God gave a commandment that we are only supposed to keep in heaven and not now? Now is our test- Today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart in rebellion Hebrews 3:15, Psalms 95:7-8 - when Jesus comes our fates will be sealed and it will be too late. Revelation 22:11. The Sabbath will be kept in heaven Isaiah 66:23 and God's will for us is the same in heaven as it is on earth Matthew 6:10

Speculation absolutely for now, but I feel the probability of it. Romans 14 was God given truth also, and God knew the differences in culture and nations and all that, that all can't keep the sabbath, they were never taught.

Is it your claim that God would give us a commandment that we could never keep? Spending time with God one day a week on His holy Sabbath day is too much? I think we may serve different gods, because the God I believe in if He asks us to do something He is going to give us the power to do it! Through faith we uphold the law Romans 3:31 and all things are possible through God, including obeying Him the way He asks.

Besides, the sabbath isn't about getting a day off. It's more about giving a day to God. So if your work schedule makes you observe your sabbath on say, Thursday, and you do do it!

There is no commandment that says to Remember the fifth day to keep it holy, but God was very clear about the Sabbath commandment. Just like He was very clear to Adam and Eve they could eat from any tree except one. We should never undermine what God asks of us, imho and trust what He asks of us is for our own good. 1 John 5:3

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Then this man has a reward coming also. Prolly just as big as the Saturday sabbath keeper!

I prefer scripture, but we have free will to believe what we want. I think it's important to obey God the way He asks instead of the way we prefer. Jesus condemned those who placed their ways above the commandments of God quoting right from this unit of Ten Matthew 15:3-9

Or so it seems to me.

What if you're wrong, that God meant what He personally spoke and personally wrote in His holy commandments. Perhaps something to consider taking up in prayer.

 

[HIM]

No...is this another truth you want to debate?

Kind of harsh, don't you think, HIM?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 3:2 - New American Standard Bible

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,

www.biblegateway.com

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

But Christ did not say "any good act you can think of is appropriate for the Sabbath" -- thank God.

I think he seriously implyed it!

Your extreme inference - noted.

What He actually did is "Forbid it" as Heb 8 notes - it is Christ speaking at Sinai giving His commandments.

Those commandments allow for trash day to be on Tuesday, and for yard work day on a day like Thursday - but do not allow for vacuuming in church on Sabbath during worship in the sanctuary as an act of devotion/worship/praise. In fact He specifically states that we have 6 other days to do that sort of thing.

Is 58:13 forbids all sorts of secular (good) works on God's set-apart, sanctified, holy day.

He siad when you gave that scruffy bum a cup of water

Indeed that you can do.

But teaching your scruffy bum friend how to do better pushups or better chin ups or how to mow the lawn with better efficiency... yes all of that is for the other days of the week. "Good deeds" though they may be.

Remember! The Sabbath was not made for man, but man was made for the sabbath!

err - the opposite.

Having that day of rest was "FOR man"
Having a day for worship with all distractions set aside - was fOR man.

It is man that needed that break in his daily grind of a schedule. And God gave it to man when He made both man and the Sabbath at creation week.

Sabbath "made for" mankind not mankind "made for" the Sabbath - speaks to the making of BOTH the Sabbath and mankind at creation week. Gen 2:1-3, Ex 20:11

The Sabbath is not a Rule!

It is a commandment in the TEN in which as Paul reminds us "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
No wonder John says "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
No wonder Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

 

[BobRyan]

Kind of harsh, don't you think, HIM?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 3:2 - New American Standard Bible

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,

www.biblegateway.com

hmmm are you trying to start another topic here in your 1 Tim 3:2 reference above

2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,

 

[BobRyan]

Many things are good and moral - not all of them are appropriate to do in the middle of a church worship service... obviously

But there is an obvious moral aspect to mowing a disabled widows lawn.

If you avoid enough detail in the thread you can fit in almost any idea. But we need to pay attention to details.

 

[Leaf473]

No...is this another truth you want to debate?

I don't think there's anything to debate It sounded harsh to me, you didn't think it was harsh.

We've both said our piece.

Peace be with you, my man

 

[Leaf473]

hmmm are you trying to start another topic here in your 1 Tim 3:2 reference above

2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,

No, I'm not trying to start another topic. I was referencing qualities God looks for in a leader

 

[Leaf473]

Many things are good and moral - not all of them are appropriate to do in the middle of a church worship service... obviously

If you avoid enough detail in the thread you can fit in almost any idea. But we need to pay attention to details.

Suppose you had only one hour of free time. And you could choose during that hour to go to a church worship service or mow the disabled widow's lawn. And that was the only time that you could mow it. Which would you choose?

 

[Leaf473]

Many things are good and moral - not all of them are appropriate to do in the middle of a church worship service... obviously

If you avoid enough detail in the thread you can fit in almost any idea. But we need to pay attention to details.

I think this is an interesting detail

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 12:5 - New American Standard Bible

Or have you not read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple violate the Sabbath, and yet are innocent?

www.biblegateway.com

Could not the priests offer those sacrifices the day before?

Isn't there a special sacrifice done on the seventh day, additional work for the priests on the Sabbath?

 

[BobRyan]

Could not the priests offer those sacrifices the day before?

Isn't there a special sacrifice done on the seventh day, ?

As is often the case -- your argument is "with the text" not with me.

And interestingly enough you are debating texts that talk about worship practices, actions that are part of worship... not texts that talk about mowing the grass or sweeping the floor.

It "appears" that you want to talk about mowing grass by talking about the liturgy and related worship practices "in the text" as if worship liturgy is the same thing as "mowing the grass" for you. Is that really the case??

 

[BobRyan]

Suppose you had only one hour of free time.

Suppose I lived on a high mountain...

And you could choose during that hour to go to a church worship service or mow the disabled widow's lawn.

Because I live on a planet that has only 1 hour a week... ??

Your argument as usual "is with the text".

 

[BobRyan]

your text 1 Tim 3:2 does not say to mow the grass on Sabbath.

2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,

But of course - you can "Be the husband of one wife" on Sabbath
You can "be above reproach" on Sabbath
you can "be self-controlled" on Sabbath
you can "be skillful in teaching" the Bible - on Sabbath.
you can be hospitable on Sabbath

No, I'm not trying to start another topic. I was referencing qualities God looks for in a leader

Mowing the grass AND being a good leader? Yes that is possible.
Now back to the Sabbath topic.

 

[Divide]

I prefer scripture, but we have free will to believe what we want. I think it's important to obey God the way He asks instead of the way we prefer. Jesus condemned those who placed their ways above the commandments of God quoting right from this unit of Ten Matthew 15:3-9
What if you're wrong, that God meant what He personally spoke and personally wrote in His holy commandments. Perhaps something to consider taking up in prayer.

I can't disagree with you. I said some of that was my speculation and it is entirety possible that I am wrong. It's a good thing that we arent discussing a Salvific topic, right?!

In the OT, we do see examples of God giving ground in His commandments in order to compromise with His ignorant people. Sound familiar yet? Yes, the Marriage Covenant, No Divorces are allowed. But as a concession God gave to Moses to give the people the right to divorce in situations of adultery.

God giving a concession about the Sabbath is not in there, I know. ut I have reasoned that if God would grade them on the slide one time then that would be indicative of His character would it not? So it's God loving and showing His people compassion while they are even in misfortunes or whatever. So it's easy to believe that God's character extends to some other areas of spiritual concern also.

It does say, if there is a lost sheep on the Sabbath, He goes and seaarches for it, and this is ok. So in what way could the elderly disabled widow not a potential lost sheep? That lady gets her lawn mowed first and then we can talk out the details? Yes!

 

[BobRyan]

In the OT, we do see examples of God giving ground in His commandments in order to compromise

Indeed God allowed for Divorce as a civil law even though in Matt 5 divorce was not allowed in the moral law. One cannot always enforce in civil law what is always enforced (via the fires of the lake of fire in Rev 20) in moral law.

So take "do not covet" for example. No civil laws ever prevented coveting OT or NT even though it is a moral law and people will surely burn in the lake of fire of Rev 20 for the sin of coveting if they do not accept the gospel, repent, accept forgiveness and the new birth and then as 1 John 2 says "walk even as HE walked".

 

[BobRyan]

It does say, if there is a lost sheep on the Sabbath, He goes and seaarches for it, and this is ok. So in what way could the elderly disabled widow not a potential lost sheep? That lady gets her lawn mowed first and then we can talk out the details? Yes!

1. In what way was "lawn mowed on Sabbath or else death" supposed to be the problem the lady was facing???
2. "Lawn mowed" appears to be an item of "convenience", rather than life-or-death and there are 6 days not sanctified at all -- that can be used for that .

 

[HIM]

I don't think there's anything to debate It sounded harsh to me, you didn't think it was harsh.

We've both said our piece.

Peace be with you, my man

I know and you think. Big Difference…

 

[Leaf473]

As is often the case -- your argument is "with the text" not with me.

And interestingly enough you are debating texts that talk about worship practices, actions that are part of worship... not texts that talk about mowing the grass or sweeping the floor.

No, I'm not debating the texts, I'm bringing them up to talk about why things are the way they are.

It "appears" that you want to talk about mowing grass by talking about the liturgy and related worship practices "in the text" as if worship liturgy is the same thing as "mowing the grass" for you. Is that really the case??

No, worship liturgy is not the same as mowing the grass. But is only one of those things allowed on the Sabbath according to the scriptures?

Is there a passage in the scriptures that says what things are allowable on the Sabbath?