Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

[Gregory Thompson]

Assuming motivations are aligned to the gospel, it is good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

if we call this good, is it not also good on the Sabbath as Christ tells us "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Mat 12:12)

it's a simple question but please stick to answering it and not other sabbath digressions. Be careful in your reply, because declaring something is restricted on the sabbath also eliminates it from being called good.

Even better to do so in secret.

 

[freeinhim3]

The issue here is our conscience and that of the Spirit. Two entities exist in most and Most don't know the difference because they have not or have refused to mortified all the deeds of the body and still live in and through the flesh in part or whole.

The issue is not the conscience but one of the most basic biblical tenets, a tenet you are struggling to comprehend
Through the law we become conscious of sin

Applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer. And, through that law, according to the bible you will be conscious of sin when you fail to follow it, as sin is the transgression of the law.

Try and stick to what is being stated

 

[HIM]

The issue is not the conscience but one of the most basic biblical tenets,..
Through the law we become conscious of sin

Applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer. And, through that law, according to the bible you will be conscious of sin when you fail to follow it, as sin is the transgression of the law.

The Word, the Law are through the Spirit that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. But we must live through the Spirit and mortify the deeds of the Body. In other words we are still here and our thoughts and feelings can hinder the work of the Spirit if we do not follow the Spirit. The more we hinder the further we get. And alas we are worse off than the first.

 

[freeinhim3]

The Word, the Law are through the Spirit that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. But we must live through the Spirit and mortify the deeds of the Body. In other words we are still here and our thoughts and feelings can hinder the work of the Spirit if we do not follow the Spirit. The more we hinder the further we get. And alas we are worse off than the first.

As you appear unable to address the point continually made there is no point in continuing with this

 

[HIM]

As you appear unable to address the point continually made there is no point in continuing with this

As you appear unable to address the point continually made there is no point in continuing with this

 

[DamianWarS]

Gathering two days worth of food (like grocery shopping) is different than eating a piece of grain when hungry on the Sabbath

The principle difference is found here…

Deut. 23:25 When you come into your neighbor’s standing grain, you may pluck the heads with your hand, but you shall not use a sickle on your neighbor’s standing grain.

Then you've allowed the apple applying the same principle with no biblical support to allow apples. Why is an apple liken to a head of grain and not to manna? The Hebrews pick a day's worth of manna and no more meeting their immediate needs with the exception of the day before the Sabbath of course. The point was picking no more than was needed for the immediate which seems to be your point you are defending for apples and wheat (and I assume other fruit) but you seem to fail to see the connection.

What if the apple was too high may I climb the tree? May I pick up a stick to poke the apple or is that too close to a sickle? At least with grapes we know baskets aren't allowed. What if there is a 1000 people hungry and in need of a 1000 apples (or 1000s of heads of grain) are they justified in doing so?

Deut. 23:25 is about helping those in need while still protecting the landowner from being taken advantage of. It is not about the Sabbath. The freedom to gather what you can from your hands allowed those who were hungry to catch a break but protection was put in place essentially to not use tools to aid your gathering. You're free to superimpose this over the Sabbath but it has nothing to do with instruction for the Sabbath. Just as with manna the implication would be gather twice as much so your not caught doing it on the Sabbath.

you seem to present exceptions to the rule arbitrarily defined even using non-biblcal examples of apples without no heuristic approach to figuring out which should go in what category. Jesus gives us the heuristic that you're missing which is "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath"

 

[DamianWarS]

Even better to do so in secret.

Indeed, cutting someone's grass to show off may have a helpful product but is done so with selfish ambition and so is not good. The widow however should not suffer, her blessing is good, the mower's motivation however is corrupted. This of course is true for any day of the week. We also shouldn't mow someone grass on the Sabbath to make a statement and cause division all of which is has corrupted motivation.

Doing [good] in secret prevents most of this from happening because you can't show off when no one can see you do it.

But of course with the example of pulling sheep out of pits there is a sense of urgency with the act to save life regardless of who is watching. "Mowing" is a bit of hyperbole to push the point but the focus is still ministering to the needs of the lost as a mechanism to gain access so that we may pull them out of their proverbial pits.

If my neighbour is needing help, say single mom moved next door in a moving van with small kids set to unpack it all herself, then certainly I'm running over and getting friends to help to show her Christ in that moment of need and may I never say "sorry it's the Sabbath" to show her that Christ. We are all smart and can think of many real life examples of things like this happening.

 

[HIM]

Indeed, cutting someone's grass to show off may have a helpful product but is done so with selfish ambition and so is not good. The widow however should not suffer, her blessing is good, the mower's motivation however is corrupted. This of course is true for any day of the week. We also should mow someone grass on the Sabbath to make a statement and cause division all of which is has corrupted …

No we Christian would do it Sunday or another day because the Sabbath was set apart from all other days and made a day of rest. We can take care of things that are urgent but grass cutting is nothing more than a bad example on the Sabbath. The day God said rest. Because it don’t need done.

 

[DamianWarS]

No we Christian would do it Sunday or another day because the Sabbath was set apart from all other days and made a day of rest. We can take care of things that are urgent but grass cutting is nothing more than a bad example on the Sabbath. The day God said rest. Because it don’t need done.

This issue is not about grass cutting, it is about reaching the lost. Grass cutting is nothing and is simply an example of a mechanism to reach those who are lost thus the act is more than grass cutting. Just like pulling a sheep out of a pit is not about climbing, pushing, pulling, etc.... How much more important are people than sheep and how much more valuable is the spiritual life over the physical?

Change the urgency to a single mom with small kids pulling up in to her newly rented home with all her belongings in a U-Haul tasked to unload everything herself. Do you throw up your hands and say too bad it's the Sabbath or do you grabs your boots?

 

[HIM]

This issue is not about grass cutting, it is about reaching the lost.

Yes it is. It can be done another day. Be a Christian set the example. Call on their house on the Sabbath, maybe take out their dog or clean their kitty litter. Bring a meal for them because they can't cook. Pray with them. Have a Bible study. If their grass needs cut let them know you will come back and cut their grass, weed their garden, repair their roof or whatever they need tommorow or when it is best for them or you. But Spend the day with them. Fellowshipping, singing songs and praising God. Take them outside to a park so they can enjoy His creation. The Seventh Day was blessed and sanctified. It is a day for worship, resting, family and fellowshipping. And if an emergency arises, take care of it if it can't wait. Cutting grass is not that. That can be done the next day if not a couple days later.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, When it is in the power of thy hand to do it. Say not unto thy neighbor, Go, and come again, And to-morrow I will give; When thou hast it by thee. (Proverbs 3:27-28)

 

[bbbbbbb]

Our conscience is not the standard Christ is.

The problem, of course, is that all that we really know about Jesus Christ is found in the New Testament. Peripherally, the New Testament references many things in the Old Testament, including the Law.

 

[HIM]

The problem, of course, is that all that we really know about Jesus Christ is found in the New Testament. Peripherally, the New Testament references many things in the Old Testament, including the Law.

Really? If that it is the case it need not be. He in us, us in Him, that the world might believe. And they shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. For we that have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither male nor female, bondman or free, Jew or Gentile. We are all one in Christ. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith.

 

[DamianWarS]

It can be done another day.

The lost should not wait until tomorrow to be shown Christ. Perhaps mowing the lawn is a silly example as it can easily be pushed to another day but I'm sure you're smart and creative enough to think of a senerio where immediate attention to work is the best choice. In fact I gave you such an example of a single mother unloading a U-Haul without help. A perfectly reasonable example but you have chosen not to comment on it. The idea is not work driven, it is doing good driven.

 

[Leaf473]

Our conscience is not the standard Christ is.

Absolutely! We can see Christ at work in us and also in our brothers and sisters.

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 2:10 - New American Standard Bible

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

The issue here is our conscience and that of the Spirit. Two entities exist in most and Most don't know the difference because they have not or have refused to mortified all the deeds of the body and still live in and through the flesh in part or whole.

How can you not know the difference if it's written on your heart?

 

[Leaf473]

Indeed, cutting someone's grass to show off may have a helpful product but is done so with selfish ambition and so is not good. The widow however should not suffer, her blessing is good, the mower's motivation however is corrupted. This of course is true for any day of the week. We also shouldn't mow someone grass on the Sabbath to make a statement and cause division all of which is has corrupted motivation.

Doing [good] in secret prevents most of this from happening because you can't show off when no one can see you do it.

But of course with the example of pulling sheep out of pits there is a sense of urgency with the act to save life regardless of who is watching. "Mowing" is a bit of hyperbole to push the point but the focus is still ministering to the needs of the lost as a mechanism to gain access so that we may pull them out of their proverbial pits.

If my neighbour is needing help, say single mom moved next door in a moving van with small kids set to unpack it all herself, then certainly I'm running over and getting friends to help to show her Christ in that moment of need and may I never say "sorry it's the Sabbath" to show her that Christ. We are all smart and can think of many real life examples of things like this happening.

I think even an atheist would see helping that single mom as a good thing, as opposed to saying Sorry about your squalling kids. Maybe you can sleep in your moving van tonight and tomorrow I'll help you bring in your beds.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then you've allowed the apple applying the same principle with no biblical support to allow apples. Why is an apple liken to a head of grain and not to manna?

I already showed the difference in my previous post - gathering two days' worth of food is work, eating the manna was allowed on the Sabbath. Just like eating an apple or a piece of grain. If you don't understand the difference, sorry I can't help you see.

The Hebrews pick a day's worth of manna

Two days' worth of manna Exodus 16:22- one for the sixth day and another portion for the Sabbath. The eating part was not the issue, it was the gathering part. Just like today, not a sin to eat, but a sin to go grocery shopping on the Sabbath. Thats why God made a preparation day Mark 15:42 so we can be ready for His holy Sabbath day, the day we are to honor Him by doing His ways, not ours. Isaiah 58:13

a

Deut. 23:25 is about helping those in need while still protecting the landowner from being taken advantage of. It is not about the Sabbath. The freedom to gather what you can from your hands allowed those who were hungry to catch a break but protection was put in place essentially to not use tools to aid your gathering. You're free to superimpose this over the Sabbath but it has nothing to do with instruction for the Sabbath. Just as with manna the implication would be gather twice as much so your not caught doing it on the Sabbath.

I understand what's it's about, but it shows the difference between harvesting and eating.

you seem to present exceptions to the rule arbitrarily defined even using non-biblcal examples of apples without no heuristic approach to figuring out which should go in what category. Jesus gives us the heuristic that you're missing which is "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath"

I am actually following the holy scriptures that God gave to us for teaching and understanding. 2 Tim 3:16 What you and others want to do is make something God made holy and try to make it unholy or common , things that can be done in the other 6 days that are work days Exodus 20:9 and what we are warned about Ezekiel 22:26

I will end it with we will just need to agree to disagree, and I wish you well in seeking Truth to His Word.

 

[Leaf473]

No we Christian would do it Sunday or another day because the Sabbath was set apart from all other days and made a day of rest. We can take care of things that are urgent but grass cutting is nothing more than a bad example on the Sabbath. The day God said rest. Because it don’t need done.

Many people drive to their Church on the Sabbath day, do they not?

Why is it not allowable to drive your riding lawn mower over the disabled widow's lawn?

 

[DamianWarS]

I am actually following the holy scriptures

Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. This is expicltly his words right out of scripture. He left no exception to doing good yet you seem to think what he actually meant is except when work is involved. I am following Christ's words and my focus is to do good and in doing so it is lawful (even if that involves a measure of work) Christ tells us to keep his Commandments. Is this not an example of his commandments? I'm confused where you aligience lies, with Christ or the covenant of Moses?