Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. This is expicltly his words right out of scripture. He left no exception to doing good yet you seem to think what he actually meant is except when work is involved. I am following Christ's words and my focus is to do good and in doing so it is lawful (even if that involves a measure of work) Christ tells us to keep his Commandments. Is this not an example of his commandment? I'm confused where you aligience lies, with Christ or the covenant of Moses?

It's His version of lawful, not ours. He gave no examples of doing labors or work (breaking the Sabbath), healing people and helping animals in distress, is not the same a yardwork. The purpose of the Sabbath is communion with God, but Jesus is teaching in addition to that (His own example of Sabbath-keeping) its not wrong to heal people, eating or helping animals, no example of yardwork, labors etc. The Pharisees were making the Sabbath too strict more about their man-made rules and today most people swung the other way, making it about their ways, not God's.

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus gave the example of priests working on the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Doing the ways of God is not a sin, like Pastors preaching God's Word on the Sabbath, not a sin. Doing God's ways is not a sin on the Sabbath, but I do think people who do not keep the Sabbath have a hard time understanding what is and is not allowed. The Spirit is given to us to help us keep the commandments John 14:15-18 and given those who obey Acts 5:32 without the Holy Spirit it is impossible to understand the Word of God who guides us in all Truth John 16:13 which is how we are sanctified John 17:17 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:15 and righteous Psalms 119:172.

 

[Leaf473]

Don't the pastors of seventh-day fellowships usually shave before they head off to preach? Shaving would be work to me, I gave it up years ago. Just do an occasional trim

 

[DamianWarS]

It's His version of lawful, not ours. He gave no examples of doing labors or work (breaking the Sabbath), healing people and helping animals in distress, is not the same a yardwork. The purpose of the Sabbath is communion with God, but Jesus is teaching in addition to that (His own example of Sabbath-keeping) its not wrong to heal people, eating or helping animals, no example of yardwork, labors etc. The Pharisees were making the Sabbath too strict more about their man-made rules and today most people swung the other way, making it about their ways, not God's.

the context is to reach others for Christ, ergo doing good by saving lives. yard work is just a mechanism to reach that goal just as lifting a sheep is a mechanism to getting it out of a pit. the redeeming element is not the work involved (pushing, tugging, pulling, lifting, climbing, and all the work involved in rescuing a sheep) the redeeming element is purpose-driven work, and that's what makes it good. Surely you must be able to conceive of an example where work needs immediate attention yet the risk of physical life or physical healing is not the issue. the spiritual need of the lost is of a greater matter than the physical and when they need help and we are able to provide that help then it should be offered.

The purpose of the Sabbath is communion with God

the purpose of the 7th day is the answer to the darkness before the first day. it is everything it is not, light, complete, order, filled, rest vs darkness, incomplete, chaos, empty, unrest, etc... the 7th day is the completion of God's work and by extension, it is the completion of God's work in us beginning when light is spoken into our lives and darkness is separated out of it. The light of day 1 is a salvation event and it is through this light we have communion with God. The 7th day is the fruition of God's work, but it can only happen when the work is complete otherwise it is a false rest.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

the context is to reach others for Christ, ergo doing good by saving lives. yard work is just a mechanism to reach that goal just as lifting a sheep is a mechanism to getting it out of a pit. the redeeming element is not the work involved (pushing, tugging, pulling, lifting, climbing, and all the work involved in rescuing a sheep) the redeeming element is purpose-driven work, and that's what makes it good. Surely you must be able to conceive of an example where work needs immediate attention yet the risk of physical life or physical healing is not the issue. the spiritual need of the lost is of a greater matter than the physical and when they need help and we are able to provide that help then it should be offered.


the purpose of the 7th day is the answer to the darkness before the first day. it is everything it is not, light, complete, order, filled, rest vs darkness, incomplete, chaos, empty, unrest, etc... the 7th day is the completion of God's work and by extension, it is the completion of God's work in us beginning when light is spoken into our lives and darkness is separated out of it. The light of day 1 is a salvation event and it is through this light we have communion with God. The 7th day is the fruition of God's work, but it can only happen when the work is complete otherwise it is a false rest.

Jesus never broke the commandments to reach people, you are using your thoughts and trying to make it as if it is equal to scripture same with the purpose of God's holy Sabbath day, which what you teach is not what scripture teaches Isaiah 58:13, Exodus 20:8-11, Lev 23:3 Isaiah 66:22, no example of Jesus doing yardwork to reach people. What He did was heal people, which is lawful to do, work and labors, not on the Sabbath Exodus 20:9

Anyway, like I said agree to disagree and it gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus healed on the Sabbath. He didn't say it wasn't work. The direction of his teaching is that it is allowable work.

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus never broke the commandments to reach people,

Jesus tells us the priests desecrate the Sabbath yet are lawful. He uses this as one of his examples to show that doing good is lawful on the Sabbath. To use his language with this example would be saying desecrating the Sabbath is lawful as long as you're doing good.... Or perhaps yard work is lawful on the Sabbath so long as you're doing good.

I'm not suggesting Christ is doing anything unlawful, yet he uses examples like these not highlighting the law, but instead using words like "desecrate". We would call that hyperbole today and point to the laws that allow priests to work on the Sabbath but that's not Christ's point is it? He chooses to highlight the fact that priest desecrate the Sabbath and he leaves it at that.

Nothing I'm suggesting is about breaking commandments. I'm only speaking of lawful actions such as actions that desecrate the Sabbath as Jesus highlights.
Christ does not say healing is lawful on the Sabbath, or saving sheep is lawful on the Sabbath (or being a priest is lawful on the Sabbath, etc...) Another list would miss the point. Instead he chooses to use a heuristic approach saying doing good is lawful ergo all of his examples, healing, saving sheep, priest descrating the Sabbath, and David eating consecrated bread (which is not a Sabbath event) are retroactively "good". They are all constrasting examples but what binds them is their purpose for goodness. We may do likewise and be driven by goodness and know that it is lawful.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus tells us the priests desecrate the Sabbath yet are lawful. He uses this as one of his examples to show that doing good is lawful on the Sabbath. To use his language with this example would be saying desecrating the Sabbath is lawful as long as you're doing good.... Or perhaps yard work is lawful on the Sabbath so long as you're doing good.

I'm not suggesting Christ is doing anything unlawful, yet he uses examples like these not highlighting the law, but instead using words like "desecrate". We would call that hyperbole today and point to the laws that allow priests to work on the Sabbath but that's not Christ's point is it? He chooses to highlight the fact that priest desecrate the Sabbath and he leaves it at that.

Nothing I'm suggesting is about breaking commandments. I'm only speaking of lawful actions such as actions that desecrate the Sabbath as Jesus highlights.
Christ does not say healing is lawful on the Sabbath, or saving sheep is lawful on the Sabbath (or being a priest is lawful on the Sabbath, etc...) Another list would miss the point. Instead he chooses to use a heuristic approach saying doing good is lawful ergo all of his examples, healing, saving sheep, priest descrating the Sabbath, and David eating consecrated bread (which is not a Sabbath event) are retroactively "good". They are all constrasting examples but what binds them is their purpose for goodness. We may do likewise and be driven by goodness and know that it is lawful.

What does a priest do on the Sabbath- teaching God's Word, which is why they are held blameless as it is honoring God on the Sabbath Isaiah 58:13.

You're comparing honoring God with secular work. Not the same. Eze 22:26. There is no examples of Jesus doing secular work on the Sabbath like yardwork as that would be in violation of the commandment, Jesus kept the Sabbath commandment and all of the commandments and is our example to follow. 1 John 2:6. If we stick with what Jesus did on the Sabbath within our own powers, we will be just fine.

 

[Leaf473]

Priests butchered animals on the Sabbath, thus desecrating it. But they were held innocent.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Priests butchered animals on the Sabbath, thus desecrating it. But they were held innocent.

Wow. You have an interesting way of interpreting scriptures, sacrificing animals on the Sabbath for atonement was still honoring God, it all pointed to Jesus.

 

[Leaf473]

Wow. You have an interesting way of interpreting scriptures, sacrificing animals on the Sabbath for attornment was still honoring God, it all pointed to Jesus.

Exactly! They were doing God honoring work, pointing to Jesus.

 

[FenderTL5]

Many people drive to their Church on the Sabbath day, do they not?

Why is it not allowable to drive your riding lawn mower over the disabled widow's lawn?

If traveling more than a half mile or so then that would also be forbidden. The Bible specifies the permittable length as the distance from Mt. Olivet to Jerusalem. (From the Eastern gate of Jerusalem to the present site of the Church of the Ascension on Mt. Olivet is slightly over 1/2 m.)

 

[DamianWarS]

God's Word, which is why they are held blameless as it is honoring God on the Sabbath Isaiah 58:13.

You're comparing honoring God with secular work. Not the same. Eze 22:26. There is no examples of Jesus doing secular work on the Sabbath like yardwork as that would be in violation of the commandment, Jesus kept the Sabbath commandment and all of the commandments and is our example to follow. 1 John 2:6. If we stick with what Jesus did on the Sabbath within our own powers, we will be just fine.

You're created a holy/secular divide. All actions are holy if they give glory to God, including yard work. There is no innate secular/holy work, it is the purpose behind the work that redeems it.

I know you will be quick to say on the Sabbath yard work does not give glory to God yet Jesus tells us doing good is lawful. This begs the question what is good? But it is not the Sabbath that defines goodness which seems to be your angle. Goodness is not mutually inclusive to the Sabbath. So the question at hand is can yard work be good (or some other work)? If it can, then it can also be lawful on the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You're created a holy/secular divide. All actions are holy if they give glory to God, including yard work. There is no innate secular/holy work, it is the purpose behind the work that redeems it.

I know you will be quick to say on the Sabbath yard work does not give glory to God yet Jesus tells us doing good is lawful. This begs the question what is good? But it is not the Sabbath that defines goodness which seems to be your angle. Goodness is not mutually inclusive to the Sabbath. So the question at hand is can yard work be good (or some other work)? If it can, then it can also be lawful on the Sabbath.

Like I said previously, we will have to agree to disagree and this gets sorted out soon enough.

I wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.

 

[Leaf473]

If traveling more than a half mile or so then that would also be forbidden. The Bible specifies the permittable length as the distance from Mt. Olivet to Jerusalem. (From the Eastern gate of Jerusalem to the present site of the Church of the Ascension on Mt. Olivet is slightly over 1/2 m.)

I hear what you're saying When I've talked about it in the past, the response is that driving isn't work.

That's why I brought up the riding lawn mower.

If the idea is that you could operate your riding lawn mower on a different day, but you have to drive on the day of the holy assembly, well actually, no.

You could drive there late Friday afternoon and stay until sunset on Saturday. Of course, the place of assembly would then be built more like a campground. But that would be kind of cool I think.

But I don't want this to be about judging other people's Sabbath Day activities. If a person feels good about operating a vehicle on the 7th day, great! Let others feel good about operating a vehicle as well

 

[DamianWarS]

I hear what you're saying When I've talked about it in the past, the response is that driving isn't work.

That's why I brought up the riding lawn mower.

If the idea is that you could operate your riding lawn mower on a different day, but you have to drive on the day of the holy assembly, well actually, no.

You could drive there late Friday afternoon and stay until sunset on Saturday. Of course, the place of assembly would then be built more like a campground. But that would be kind of cool I think.

But I don't want this to be about judging other people's Sabbath Day activities. If a person feels good about operating a vehicle on the 7th day, great! Let others feel good about operating a vehicle as well

If driving a car is ok on the Sabbath but not a horse pulled cart (for the horse) then it would seem reasonable that driving a lawn mower is ok on the Sabbath instead of a push mower. Of course if the action is good then Jesus tells us it is lawful on the Sabbath so push, pull or ride, goodness breaks through this Sabbath divide.

 

[Leaf473]

If driving a car is ok on the Sabbath but not a horse pulled cart (for the horse) then it would seem reasonable that driving a lawn mower is ok on the Sabbath instead of a push mower. Of course if the action is good then Jesus tells us it is lawful on the Sabbath so push, pull or ride, goodness breaks through this Sabbath divide.

Right, it would be allowable with either line of reasoning:
It's good, therefore allowable on the Sabbath
and
it's not work, therefore allowable on the Sabbath.

 

[FredVB]

If you do what is really good, you are not being paid for it. Being motivated by pay for what is being done cancels good of what might be done.

I do not drive, not just on Sabbath but at any time. I see there might be limits to going places. Is it making others work for Sabbath to need fuel then? I do see how making others work on Sabbath is serious, maybe more so than our choices for ourselves on Sabbath that don't impose on others.

 

[Leaf473]

If you do what is really good, you are not being paid for it. Being motivated by pay for what is being done cancels good of what might be done.

I do not drive, not just on Sabbath but at any time. I see there might be limits to going places. Is it making others work for Sabbath to need fuel then? I do see how making others work on Sabbath is serious, maybe more so than our choices for ourselves on Sabbath that don't impose on others.

I was thinking something similar about driving. If your car breaks down, will you just leave it there until after sunset? Or will a tow truck driver have to work to come tow the car?