Is husband controlling??

[archer75]

He would not be in support of going to anyone but a faith based counselor. A Presbyterian at that is stretching it for him. Having a woman be the counselor assigned to us is even a further stretch. I really feel like I’m doing the best I can with what is offered around here that he will work with. I really do feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

This message itself is a sign that you should definitely see a counselor on your own, and more than once. Ideally, one who is not in a faith-labelled practice.

If you are trying to figure out whether your husband's behavior is abusive, you cannot let him dictate the terms on which you attempt that.

 

[RaymondG]

To be honest, couples counselling is often not recommended in a situation where there's a controlling or abusive dynamic, because the abuser is often able to manipulate the counsellor (as Endeavourer outlined so neatly above) and use the counselling to perpetuate control of the other. I would be more inclined to suggest starting with individual counselling.

Yet there are many who do not see abuse. Whose to say that your view is right and everyone else is less right?

Whom, with great confidence, can answer a matter without hearing the whole story? and now we are suggesting she go alone so that another only hears one side?

Just as we disagree based on what we read, it is likely that two in the position of the OP would also disagree, after receiving the same treatment from the same husband...

And there are some here who are the best that I've seen, at finding problems in marriages....

Had you wrote what you said about cooking in an op of your own, there would have been pages of red flags and relationship enders that would have been spoken about in details, so good, that even you would have started believing them.

It is best that all are heard and respected....but not taken as truth.....especial if exclamations are given knowing only one side of the story...

 

[Dave-W]

A Presbyterian at that is stretching it for him.

Not sure what kind of Presbyterian your counselor is, but if she has been trained at PRMI** then I would trust her to get to the bottom of the issue rather quickly.

** Presbyterian Reform Ministries International

 

[Endeavourer]

Many guys are very apprehensive of their wives talking about their "private stuff" with them not being present.

I would strongly recommend that the wife and husband air their grievances to a counselor separately. If they are together then the old wounds and hurts are just stirred up again, sometimes even stronger than they were initially felt, and the parties leave the counseling session in worse condition than they came, feeling ever so much more justified in their anger and hurt.

When I help people in my lay person, volunteer marriage ministry, I never let the one spouse hear the other putting them down. The first discussion will usually be full of disrespect and anger about their spouse's behavior. Exposing each to the other's disrespect and anger is harmful to the marriage.

My goal is to coach/mentor them into airing their grievances with each other in a productive way, without disrespect; in a way that moves future situations to a resolution... not to try to help them adjudicate past hurts. I work with them through a current situation to coach them on how to address each other better, and how to not resolve problems with one person getting his/her way and trouncing the other one into subjection.

Adjudicating past hurts just causes more damage when they don't have a methodology down for productive conflict resolution. Plus, it doesn't help them because they need the tools to adjudicate these things themselves. Without giving them a methodology for productive conflict resolution, past hurts just keep enlarging with current discussions adding more hurt to the pile.

 

[Dave-W]

I would strongly recommend that the wife and husband air their grievances to a counselor separately. If they are together then the old wounds and hurts are just stirred up again,

I agree.
I was just saying that many do not want that to happen, especially if they are controlling. What happens out of their sight scares them. they have no control over it.

 

[RaymondG]

I agree.
I was just saying that many do not want that to happen, especially if they are controlling. What happens out of their sight scares them. they have no control over it.

They are a couple......no reason to go behind anyones back to seek advice. It should be done openly, if done.....no more hiding and lies.

I dont see any harm in going together before going separately.... but either way it should be done openly and honestly.

 

[Kris Jordan]

I want some real non biased truthful opinions here. I really want to get to the truth of what is healthy and what is not.


My husband and I were both raised in Christian homes, though still very differently. He was brought up extremely fundamentalist. No movies, no dancing, no alcohol. I was raised with a little more freedom. When we married, he did not want me to drink alcohol, so even though I had been brought up around it and it wasn’t a big deal to have a glass of wine now and then, I respected that. Fast forward to years later... he is still fundamental and dare I say “legalistic” with some things but over the past 10 years, things have relaxed a bit, especially in the area of alcohol. My parents will visit, and myself and them will share a bottle of wine at dinner. NBD. When my husband and I go on dates, I usually indulge in my favorite drink (red wine) and when I get together with my girlfriends, it is OK by my husband if I have a drink. The only thing he has asked is that we do not keep it on hand in the home. I do honestly respect this, and do not keep it in the home... but several times over the past 10 years, when I have an evening to myself where my kids and husband are gone and I have the house to myself, I have indulged in a couple of glasses to unwind. AND, over the past 10 years, he has on a few occasions caught me and been very very hurt by it. This most recent time I have done this, he told me I was choosing alcohol over marriage. I admit, I shouldn’t have lied about it. That was wrong of me.... but I also feel somewhat like it should be my choice to enjoy a glass of wine by myself and I should not have to ask permission. I fully admit to lying, but if we could back up to before the lie, do you all think it is controlling for him to not let me have freedom on this issue? I honestly feel like with all I have to deal with in the home, I deserve to just relax a little. I never drink excessively either. We are talking a couple of glasses every couple of weeks. I definitely should not have been hiding it, but I feel like I should not have been restricted either. I feel like it makes sense if I’ve shown that I have a problem with alcohol but really I have never been intoxicated in my life (except this one awful time in high school ). Now my husband and I have our first counseling appointment coming up. He thinks because I have been secretive about it, that I need to go to AA. What do you all think of this? Help me see what’s going on because the religious aspect, and the fact that it’s alcohol makes this a complicated issue in my mind. All I know is I would never tell him he couldn’t eat or drink something unless I saw problems. He would obviously say “well the problem is the lie” and I think he’s partially right but something still doesn’t feel right about this. I have discussed this with a closer personal friend of mine who is a Christian counselor and she thinks he is trying to control me. Please weigh in and help me see things clearly. Thanks!!

Hi Enealy,

The first thing I see that "began" this contention between you was the commitment you made to him (when you first got married) to not have alcohol in the home. Whether you felt having alcohol in your house was right or wrong at the time, you gave him your word and commitment that you would respect his wishes and only drink outside the home. And he trusted you with that.

If you wanted to renegotiate your commitment at a later point for whatever reason, you should have talked to him about that to see if you two could find another compromise that worked for both of you in this area, but instead you chose to break your word to him secretly, which ultimately disrespected him and broke his trust in you. What made it worse was that you didn't come clean to him on your own, after you knew you had broken your word, but he had to catch you in the act instead to even know about it. That kind of stuff breeds a huge amount of distrust for a spouse.

So it doesn't sound like he is wrestling with the "drinking at home" issue as much as he's struggling with your dishonesty, deception and disrespect toward him over the issue. As spouses, our integrity and trust with each other is of the utmost importance and when that is broken, it causes a lot of issues and problems in our marriages.

I don't think - from what you've shared - that your husband is being controlling. It sounds like he was upfront with you about his position on having alcohol in your home and you respected that initially but then blindsided him later on.

However, if there are other issues which make you feel like you have a parent/child relationship with him instead of a husband/wife relationship, then those definitely need to be discussed and addressed. There is only one Holy Spirit who is responsible to "keep us in check with Jesus" and convict us of our sin -- and our spouses are not "Him."

Hang in there girl -- you will get through this.

 

[archer75]

They are a couple......no reason to go behind anyones back to seek advice. It should be done openly, if done.....no more hiding and lies.

I dont see any harm in going together before going separately.... but either way it should be done openly and honestly.

The possible harm in going together first is that if one spouse is controlling and abusive, that person may "win over" the counselor and then have the counselor as a "weapon" with which to further smash their spouse.

Seeing a counselor or a doctor is not cheating on your spouse. It may be the best thing for the marriage, which is good for your spouse.

 

[Dave-W]

They are a couple......no reason to go behind anyones back to seek advice. It should be done openly, if done.....no more hiding and lies.

But that is the issue. If it is a control thing, then the control over information shared is there from the very start, even over the counselor.

 

[RaymondG]

But that is the issue. If it is a control thing, then the control over information shared is there from the very start, even over the counselor.

I see no fault in going alone.....just the hiding the fact that it is being done..... Seems that this propensity to hid and sneak is the reason the initial appt with made.

But lets remember we only know one side....and suggesting that another only hears one side as well. I cant say anything for certain not knowing more

 

[RaymondG]

The possible harm in going together first is that if one spouse is controlling and abusive, that person may "win over" the counselor and then have the counselor as a "weapon" with which to further smash their spouse.

Seeing a counselor or a doctor is not cheating on your spouse. It may be the best thing for the marriage, which is good for your spouse.

I Did not know that professional counselors could be so easily manipulated to the point that we had to suggest that them see couples individually to reduce their chances of being manipulated.

This is not a situation i would walk into expecting help.

I have no knowledge of it and will have to take your word for it.

 

[Dave-W]

But lets remember we only know one side....and suggesting that another only hears one side as well. I cant say anything for certain not knowing more

Correct. Which is why counselors who have been thru PRMI's Dunamis seminars. (for Presbys) or to Elijah House will have the spiritual sensitivity to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying beyond what the counselees are saying.

 

[Dave-W]

I Did not know that professional counselors could be so easily manipulated to the point that we had to suggest that them see couples individually to reduce their chances of being manipulated.

Often the manipulation is demonic in origin, and unless the counselor is aware of how to shield against such things, they can be taken in.

Please do NOT take that as saying that anyone in this situation, or even any specific control freak, is demonized or "possessed."

 

[enealey]

I wouldn’t go behind my husbands back and see a counselor individually if he didn’t want me to. So I think going forward... I will let the counselor direct the best way she sees fit to help us. If she thought it would be helpful to see us individually, I hope my husband would be on board. At this point the last thing I would do is hide it and go behind his back.

 

[RaymondG]

Often the manipulation is demonic in origin, and unless the counselor is aware of how to shield against such things, they can be taken in.

Please do NOT take that as saying that anyone in this situation, or even any specific control freak, is demonized or "possessed."

Words are groups of letters that form sounds......You dont have to worry about me letting them affect me emotionally or psychologically........

Spiritual training? Counselors being manipulated by a husband who manipulates his wife as well?
This is getting too complication.

I say lets take this to the prayer board instead and count is all done after receiving 50 prayer emojis.

 

[Endeavourer]

I Did not know that professional counselors could be so easily manipulated to the point that we had to suggest that them see couples individually to reduce their chances of being manipulated.

I have no knowledge of it and will have to take your word for it.

Very sadly it is a common dynamic. I could tell you stories and stories AND MORE stories, all to the crushing result for the victim. Both with counselors and pastors.

As I mentioned before, often a pastor's client is the salvation of the non-repentant party (perpetrator), not the poor victim. Pastors are some of the more dangerous counselors out there (Paidiske is a shining exception, however). Few are able to overcome their instinct to minister for salvation of the perpetrator in order to help the victim. Often the Biblical "submission" element is thrown in, in the pursuit of serving the perpetrator. And I could tell you, through my own tears, the devastating results for women I've supported. So, so sad.

 

[enealey]

I agree. This is all getting really complicated. I appreciate everyone’s input from the ones that say my husband needs to let up to the ones that say it is my issue. There’s a lot more to the story, you are all right. I covet your prayers this week as we endure a 27 hour drive to visit my family, all while not really talking to each other beyond what we have to. I feel nauseated and have since this happened. I can’t rest or feel well. Please pray that Jesus would just be bear to me, that I would feel his forgiveness and that my husband and I will be in the right frame of mind when we return to deal with things. Thank you! God bless you all!!!

 

[Dave-W]

OK.

Please let us know how it goes.

 

[Endeavourer]

I covet your prayers this week as we endure a 27 hour drive to visit my family, all while not really talking to each other beyond what we have to.

Your participating in a trip where you will be abused with the silent treatment for 27 hour commute each way is not a good plan. It will cause deep pain, resentment and lasting damage to your marriage. And you see, only you will be suffering the depths of this experience. HE will be (falsely) feeling righteously vindicated the entire time. He won't be suffering at all. Who doesn't ENJOY feeling righteously vindicated? You're signing up for a one sided catastrophe, my sister, to embark on a trip under these terms.

It is better to forego the trip until it can be a pleasure for both of you.

I can still remember a time where I can't believe my 23 year old self didn't bail out of the car at a toll stop and get a taxi ride home. That would have been far better than to suffer the two hour drive that I endured with a very angry and verbally/emotionally abusive husband. It's one of those moments that I think back on to "what was I thinking!!!" And it was almost 3 decades ago. I'd hate to see you volunteer for an enduring black mark on your marriage.

So here's how I'd approach it with my husband:

"Husband, I'm not amenable to limiting our conversations with each other until after our trip. I'd love to have a fun and memorable experience with you on our drive and during our visit, and would like to suggest compartmentalizing and postponing our issues on the backburner, in total, until our appointment. I'd like to suggest we take the opportunity to go on the trip and reconnect with positive experiences and with loving on each other so we can have some momentum of good will prior to our appointment. Would this be amenable to you?"

Notice, this leaves out moralizing or judgments on his behavior. It just says you're not enthusiastic about it. Words I didn't use were pejorative such as "silent treatment" or placing him on the defense with "YOUR treatment of me".

If he responds with disrespect and demands, say "That hurts me. I'd love to discuss this at a later time to find a way that works for both of us" and then leave the room. Again, not "your bullying abusive behavior" etc etc. Don't place moral labels on his position.

This is always how to start conflict resolution - giving your husband the opportunity to offer goodwill. His response to that will either demonstrate good will or it won't. It will demonstrate an intent to abuse or not. If he is unable to come to the table to discuss with good will and good intentions, you are better to cancel the trip to avoid the lasting and memorable damage to your marriage that will ensue.

I feel nauseated and have since this happened. I can’t rest or feel well.

My sister, I doubt he is in quite this frame. For a person to insist on punishing someone with silent treatment for such a long time, including on a trip, that person is enjoying it... at least just a little. Please refer again to my comment above regarding self righteously feeling vindication.

Please pray that Jesus would just be bear to me,

My prayer for you would be to give you wisdom to respond, not the strength to endure being destroyed.

Please read the 2nd half of Isaiah chapter 28, starting at verse 15. Do you feel the spiritual application of that chapter is talking to you?

Edited to add: When I said "This is always how to start conflict resolution", by "always" I meant initially, as in always when the couple starts trying to use effective conflict resolution tools, not with someone who has established a pattern of abuse and is refusing to turn from it.

 

[enealey]

The trip is to visit my family that live far... it’s really non-negotiable. I can make it work. It won’t be fun but I need to visit my parents and brother and my new baby niece. I won’t let him take that from me. Once I get there it will be better - I’m just not looking toward to it. I love my family and can’t just not go. This trip is mostly for me. Honestly, when we get there, I will get to enjoy the time with my family while he sleeps all day most days. That’s how trips to my parents normally work... I’m used to that. I honestly can’t see this creating more damage. We are talking, but it’s very short and to the point, not complete silence.