Is husband controlling??

[enealey]

I did like what you said though about compartmentalizing the the issue until our appointment and trying to have a good time. I will suggest this!!

 

[Endeavourer]

I did like what you said though about compartmentalizing the the issue until our appointment and trying to have a good time. I will suggest this!!

This tactic is a mainstay of my marriage. When we have scheduled fun times together, we don't talk about "issues". Our dates are fun and are just for us, to be focused on meeting each other's needs.

Here's the way we see our dates:
The Policy of Undivided Attention:
Give your spouse your undivided attention a minimum of fifteen hours each week, using the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, sexual fulfillment, intimate conversation, and recreational companionship.

Issues are tabled to their own time. This way we are not worried about our fun times being sabotaged with "issues" talks and we can enjoy each other and our times together better.

Here's the awesome resource I quoted from above:
The Policy of Undivided Attention (Marriage Builders®, Inc.)

For a longer study, here is a series of articles that detail how important it is to set aside fun, recreational times that are focused on each other. I think you'll find this very fascinating:
Dating the One You Married Series of Articles (Marriage Builders®,...

 

[Paidiske]

Yet there are many who do not see abuse. Whose to say that your view is right and everyone else is less right?

I suggest looking at it this way. If there is not, in fact, a controlling/abusive dynamic, having been a bit cautious at first does no harm. If there is such a dynamic, though, ignoring it and behaving as if the marriage is basically healthy, does great harm.

On the principle of first, doing no harm, then (which can apply as much to the cure of souls as to the cure of bodies!), some caution seems warranted.

As I mentioned before, often a pastor's client is the salvation of the non-repentant party (perpetrator), not the poor victim. Pastors are some of the more dangerous counselors out there (Paidiske is a shining exception, however). Few are able to overcome their instinct to minister for salvation of the perpetrator in order to help the victim. Often the Biblical "submission" element is thrown in, in the pursuit of serving the perpetrator. And I could tell you, through my own tears, the devastating results for women I've supported. So, so sad.

I would add, too, most ministers/priests/pastors are simply not trained for this. We receive little to no formal counselling training, let alone couples counselling. We receive little to no training on abuse. The assumption is that that is outside our area of expertise and that we will refer on. Even though I've made a point of educating myself in this area, I would not attempt to counsel such a couple but would refer to other professionals, because my expertise goes as far as recognising the problem, but not as far as working effectively with it. Ministers/pastors/priests who don't have good boundaries and attempt to work with issues about which they are simply not qualified are, frankly, frightening.

 

[EmmaCat]

Honestly, I don't think a glass of wine now and then is a real issue. You know, there could be worse things like serious alcohol abuse, illegal drug usage, and prescription meds abuse.

Not too sure about the controlling thing, which I do think it is a bit excessive, but this makes me wonder, if he is this controlling, does he control you in other ways?

I'll pray for you.
All good things,
Emmy

 

[enealey]

Yes, he does like to control some other things. He likes us all to be at church when the doors are open. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s important to be at church too and not fall into the habit of not going simply because you don’t feel like it. The only excuse for him is if you have a fever or are really sick. I do a LOT of driving everyday with my kids... I have three kids and they all go to different schools. There is about a two hour commute time everyday. He insists we all be there for Wednesday night activities, but last year I just said I can’t keep this up. I truly needed a night of quiet and a night to myself. After all the driving during the day and supper prep and cleanup, it is was just too much for me to keep that up. One day I just said I need the evening, and it was my decision to stay home. He still shows his disapproval of my decision and says I have not been a good example to our children. But I fit this into a category of self care... I truly feel like I NEED a couple of hours of quiet and down time. Also worth mentioning, I do not stay home from church in order drink wine While I do feel like I made the right decision for me, it is obvious he does not approve. I even go to a Bible study every Friday in its place. I don’t feel like it is his decision to dictate my spiritual habits.

 

[Endeavourer]

Enealey, I've been thinking about your situation over the weekend.

Here's what I recommend:

(I'm making the assumption that your husband is just misguided in his marital behaviors, and not using them to exert control over you without care or regard to your feelings. If the latter is the case, then none of this advice applies to you.)

Fixing or arguing over the past doesn't benefit anyone right now. Leave that to be resolved some time in the future when you have better conflict resolution habits. I would not be drawn at any cost into conversation about past garbage. Tell the counselor you want to talk about the present and the future, and develop tools to resolve conflicts.

If the conversation goes to the past or "she always" etc etc statements, I would say "I'm interested in finding solutions on how to work through conflict for our future. I won't be able to stay in this session if we're going to damage our marriage further by talking re-fighting over the past." Personally, I would walk out of the session rather than allow it to devolve into resurrecting and re-fighting past hurts.

For your appointment, you could make a list of the top 5 things your husband makes you do that you are not enthusiastic about doing.

Let your husband know that you're not interested in doing these things anymore as they play out currently, but are willing to brainstorm for other options that could work for you both.

So, let's play out a brainstorm of the Wednesday church service for example. It's easy for us to say that's controlling if he makes you go and you are justified in not going. By you not going, he is unhappy about it and you are withdrawing love units from his account. But if you go at his coercion, you are unhappy about it and he is withdrawing love units from your account.

Neither of you needs to justify why you feel the way you do... you just need to accept that the other's feeling just is. Questioning whether the other's feeling is valid is disrespectful, and is not a necessary part of resolving the conflict.

Brainstorm for an option that makes you both happy. Until an option can be found, you don't go to church. It's easier to get over the resentment of missing something than of the resentment of having to been made to do something. So, there is less marital damage to not getting your way than being coerced into giving the other person his/her way.

Under what conditions would you be enthusiastic about going to church on Wednesday?
--What if you ordered pizza in on Wednesdays so there is no supper work/cleanup?
--What if your children were Ubered home from school on Wednesdays so you hadn't just spent all that time earlier out of your home?
--What if your husband picked your children up on his way home from work, assuming the schools have an after school care option?
--What if you ordered pizza on both Tuesdays and Wednesdays so you had two light supper nights?
--What if your kids made supper on Wednesday and your husband did the dishes?
--What if you traded going to church for your husband helping you with dishes 3 evenings?
--What if you, with some combination of the above, were able to go to church without physical exhaustion and your husband agreed to go to bed with you at your time that night so you could experience it as an evening of connection and family time?
--What if you traded Wednesday evening off for Thursday evening off, while your husband tended to the children's dinner, dishes and homework?

There could be a combination of conditions where you would be enthusiastic about going to church. The answer doesn't have to be if one of you wins, the other one loses.

If you aren't physically able to withstand any evenings out due to excess exhaustion then perhaps another possibility might be that you trade some of the options above for devotedly listening at home so your children aren't getting the example he's worried about.

(However, his telling you that you're setting a bad example for the children is disrespectful, fyi. Moral judgments on the other spouse are disrespectful in the ordinary course of behaviors within marriages. Obviously, this excludes extraordinary behaviors like molesting, stealing, etc etc etc.)

If you suggest the top five items here, I can help you come up with brainstorming lists for starters, if that helps.

The next exercise would be for you to list the top 5 things he does that you're not enthusiastic about, and then to also to brainstorm about his top 5 lists.

Once you learn this technique, and both accept that without enthusiastic agreement the default is to do nothing in order to avoid damaging the marriage, then resolving conflict can actually be fun because you both know that you'll be getting something. Think of it as a shopping trip where you both will come home happy with your purchases.

You can take the emotions out of the negotiations because nothing will happen until you both get something. Neither will accept the other's coerced agreement.

 

[wagonwheel69]

I'm really disappointed by some of the answers on this post I see, completely contrary to scripture. Specifically those advising you to do to a secular counselor!!! I see MANY issues brought up here but all of them strongly point to the fact that you need to respect your husband's wishes, likely even going to AA.

When you swore your marriage covenant with your husband and God you were well aware that he came from a fundamentalist background and he was opposed to you drinking, this discussion honestly should end it there. You need to honor that even if it's a little heavy. If being married to a fundamentalist who doesn't want to be around alcohol wasn't what you wanted in life the time to address that was BEFORE you got married. That is very much his right and if that is his conviction he is 100% right and Godly and consistent with scripture. Fast forward to now and he's OK with your drinking but doesn't want it in his home, this is a very reasonable thing and compromise on his part. Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. Romans 14:19-22 Hence your husband would honestly be in sin is he drinks and you being his wife need to respect his beliefs, they are indeed biblical. For you(and me) drinking is not a sin, we have this freedom in Christ but the very second this causes strife for anyone much less your husband you are sinning If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love, Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. Romans 14:15

I have many Christian friends who view drinking as a sin for themselves and don't want to be around it, while I myself enjoy drinking and do so with a clear conscience, never, ever would I try and convince them to do the same. By biblical authority your husband is slated as leader of your house, there is much scripture to reinforce this. However his feelings shouldn't require leadership authority to respect. His feelings are legitimate and it's his home as well, if alcohol is problematic for him, not keeping it in the house is a tiny, tiny concession. Especially under the context that you willingly married him knowing he didn't want you drinking at all. He's already made concessions for you.

Lying about drinking is indeed honestly one of the primary signs of an alcoholic, it doesn't sound like you are but it should be said. While you may not need AA I would indeed consider the fact that you did lie to him and break his trust, might going to an AA meeting be a good faith gesture for lying to him over this subject that's important to him? Not saying yes or no, just food for thought. It's very possible this act that to many of us is pretty benign is very hurtful to him because it's something he foundationally believes and you knew it. I'd be hurt. What's a bottle of wine worth compared to a marriage and promise to God?

 

[Lucky9]

What's the first miracle Jesus performed?
The transformation of water into wine at the Marriage at Cana or Wedding at Cana is the first miracle attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of John. In the Gospel account, Jesus, his mother and his disciples are invited to a wedding, and when the wine runs out, Jesus delivers a sign of his glory by turning water into wine.

So...drinking wine, on occasion is not a sin, nor does it make you need AA. If you have a problem where you can't stop drinking, drink too much, and/or it has affected your finances, your job and your marriage to the point that that is your main focus, than yeh...you'd be addicted and would need an ADDICTION counseling (i.e. AA)

I would agree that it is controlling behavior to try and tell your adult spouse what they can or can't drink. It's one thing if you have a habit of negative behaviors resulting from drinking, but from what you've explained, it is casual, limited drinking. For all the respect your husband demands you show him, it appears, he is not showing you any in return.

In my opinion, biased as it may be, because I know what it's like living with a controlling spouse, speak up, hold your ground, and be firm on what standards you expect him to follow, in his relation with you. If you constantly allow him to dictate how you must behave and what you can or can't do...he's going to keep controlling you, until you lose who you are. You are equal heirs to the kingdom of God...and he should respect you as an ADULT, and treat you as such.

 

[Endeavourer]

When you swore your marriage covenant with your husband and God you were well aware that he came from a fundamentalist background and he was opposed to you drinking, this discussion honestly should end it there. You need to honor that even if it's a little heavy.

If being married to a fundamentalist who doesn't want to be around alcohol wasn't what you wanted in life the time to address that was BEFORE you got married.

This is not advice that will create a relationship where both parties are strongly in love with each other.

Actions in a marriage that are taken against one or the other's desires cause a loss of love units in the person who is being coerced. It's just a fact.

An agreement in a marriage is valid only so long as both parties are enthusiastic about it. If circumstances or experiences cause the other party to lose enthusiasm about the decision, the couple needs to renegotiate it until a new solution is found they are both enthusiastic about.

That is very much his right and if that is his conviction he is 100% right and Godly and consistent with scripture.

This is not a sentiment that will create a happy marriage. Not sure what the foundation for this comment is, but the wife has her own spiritual free agency, conscience and relationship with Christ. He doesn't have some Godly 100% right to force his convictions on her, and doing so would NOT be consistent with Scripture.

you being his wife need to respect his beliefs, they are indeed biblical.

Much, much harm has been perpetrated on people because one person declares something "Biblical". Abused wives are further buffeted by and suffer from such advice because anything that is hard and is wrapped in the cloak of "Biblical" can be made to feel like it is your Biblical duty when in fact is it anything but! Marital suffering is NOT a Biblical duty; marital suffering is not meritorious. Marital JOY is what God hopes for a marriage.

After dedicating so many years to suffering under "Biblical" this or that, I came to realize that whenever a person throws "Biblical" at me, it's just their interpretation - it is not actually the Bible's interpretation. I no longer accept anyone's edicts of something being "Biblical" without researching it with skepticism. If it passes a skeptic's test, then I will consider it.

In this case, your suggestion that a wife deserves to continue suffering under her husband's edicts is far from Biblical. His behaviors influence her desire to keep her bargain. He is exhibiting poor marital behaviors which are influencing her willingness to continue on in the bargain.

Lying about drinking is indeed honestly one of the primary signs of an alcoholic, it doesn't sound like you are but it should be said.

Onerous and punishing behavior on the part of a spouse that tempts the other spouse to lie rather than face the consequences is one of the primary signs of martial relationship that is crying out for help. In this case, if the OP's narrative is all true, there is no indication for AA. It seems like a tactic of her husband's to shame and punish her for not wanting to comply with his demands. It escalates his consequences to emotionall battery so she will just comply better with demands she doesn't want to in the future.

 

[Dave-W]

What's the first miracle Jesus performed?
The transformation of water into wine at the Marriage at Cana

The congregation I grew up. In insisted HE turned the. Water into grape juice; totally no alcohol

 

[Paidiske]

The congregation I grew up. In insisted HE turned the. Water into grape juice; totally no alcohol

But that's not what the Scripture actually says. And is largely irrelevant here.

 

[wagonwheel69]

What you're speaking of is worldly wisdom, not God's wisdom and fails every time. When you disregard God's word and interject your own you're in sin and that only leads to death. The very thing you are suggesting is that a husband - who is slated to be leader of that house, drop his biblically sound conviction and intentionally sin in order to make his wife happy. Using worldly wisdom and ignoring God's word directly intended for this very circumstance.

What you are suggesting is what the world teaches, that you should do what makes you happy and this is a lie from the devil himself. A person needs to live a Godly life, following God's word, out of which you should have peace and joy. It really hurts that anyone could suggest on a Christian forum that this is even a difficult issue. 1) The bible clearly states that if her husband is convicted that drinking is a sin - it is! While I don't hold his view, it is for him. This is God's word. 2) The bible clearly states that food and drink are of little consequence, if her drinking alcohol causes him strife she is in sin! This is not my view, it's God's word. This isn't legalism or vague interpretation, this is as black and white as scripture gets. It is always great when we accommodate each other's needs and make one another happy but when it's contrary to God's word or his conviction of what's right, a line has to be drawn. What you are suggesting is that this man disregard God and commit sin in order to make his wife happy. This is what the world does - ie lets accept homosexual marriage because we're supposed to love one another, divorce is OK when we don't feel in love because we're called to live in peace and so on. to be brutally honest the wife is likely in sin for drinking at all. Not because of the consumption of alcohol but because her drinking is causing him strife - The same as if the roles were reversed. Again 101% not mine nor the worlds wisdom, but Gods word.

This is not advice that will create a relationship where both parties are strongly in love with each other.

Actions in a marriage that are taken against one or the other's desires cause a loss of love units in the person who is being coerced. It's just a fact.

An agreement in a marriage is valid only so long as both parties are enthusiastic about it. If circumstances or experiences cause the other party to lose enthusiasm about the decision, the couple needs to renegotiate it until a new solution is found they are both enthusiastic about.



This is not a sentiment that will create a happy marriage. Not sure what the foundation for this comment is, but the wife has her own spiritual free agency, conscience and relationship with Christ. He doesn't have some Godly 100% right to force his convictions on her, and doing so would NOT be consistent with Scripture.



Much, much harm has been perpetrated on people because one person declares something "Biblical". Abused wives are further buffeted by and suffer from such advice because anything that is hard and is wrapped in the cloak of "Biblical" can be made to feel like it is your Biblical duty when in fact is it anything but! Marital suffering is NOT a Biblical duty; marital suffering is not meritorious. Marital JOY is what God hopes for a marriage.

After dedicating so many years to suffering under "Biblical" this or that, I came to realize that whenever a person throws "Biblical" at me, it's just their interpretation - it is not actually the Bible's interpretation. I no longer accept anyone's edicts of something being "Biblical" without researching it with skepticism. If it passes a skeptic's test, then I will consider it.

In this case, your suggestion that a wife deserves to continue suffering under her husband's edicts is far from Biblical. His behaviors influence her desire to keep her bargain. He is exhibiting poor marital behaviors which are influencing her willingness to continue on in the bargain.



Onerous and punishing behavior on the part of a spouse that tempts the other spouse to lie rather than face the consequences is one of the primary signs of martial relationship that is crying out for help. In this case, if the OP's narrative is all true, there is no indication for AA. It seems like a tactic of her husband's to shame and punish her for not wanting to comply with his demands. It escalates his consequences to emotionall battery so she will just comply better with demands she doesn't want to in the future.

 

[Endeavourer]

What you're speaking of is worldly wisdom, not God's wisdom and fails every time. When you disregard God's word and interject your own you're in sin and that only leads to death. The very thing you are suggesting is that a husband - who is slated to be leader of that house, drop his biblically sound conviction and intentionally sin in order to make his wife happy. Using worldly wisdom and ignoring God's word directly intended for this very circumstance.

What you are suggesting is what the world teaches, that you should do what makes you happy and this is a lie from the devil himself. A person needs to live a Godly life, following God's word, out of which you should have peace and joy. It really hurts that anyone could suggest on a Christian forum that this is even a difficult issue. 1) The bible clearly states that if her husband is convicted that drinking is a sin - it is! While I don't hold his view, it is for him. This is God's word. 2) The bible clearly states that food and drink are of little consequence, if her drinking alcohol causes him strife she is in sin! This is not my view, it's God's word. This isn't legalism or vague interpretation, this is as black and white as scripture gets. It is always great when we accommodate each other's needs and make one another happy but when it's contrary to God's word or his conviction of what's right, a line has to be drawn. What you are suggesting is that this man disregard God and commit sin in order to make his wife happy. This is what the world does - ie lets accept homosexual marriage because we're supposed to love one another, divorce is OK when we don't feel in love because we're called to live in peace and so on. to be brutally honest the wife is likely in sin for drinking at all. Not because of the consumption of alcohol but because her drinking is causing him strife - The same as if the roles were reversed. Again 101% not mine nor the worlds wisdom, but Gods word.

Sir, you have a material misunderstanding of Biblical concepts about love in marriage and the parallels between Christ's relationship with his church and the marital relationship.

Your interpretations are not vague but they are wrong, and your approach is highly legalistic, counting carefully the tithes of mint, anise and cumin but omitting the weightier matters of the heart, love and spirit of Christ.

Do you behave this way towards your wife under "Biblical" banners?

My husband and I follow a Biblical pattern of love and wisdom in our marriage, giving each the dignity and respect of being "sons of God" and we are in a joyful, blissful marriage that feels like the honeymoon has never ended. We are more deeply in love with each other now than we were the day we married.

 

[wagonwheel69]

Sir, you have a material misunderstanding of Biblical concepts about love in marriage and the parallels between Christ's relationship with his church and the marital relationship.

Your interpretations are not vague but they are wrong, and your approach is highly legalistic, counting carefully the tithes of mint, anise and cumin but omitting the weightier matters of the heart, love and spirit of Christ.

Do you behave this way towards your wife under "Biblical" banners?

My husband and I follow a Biblical pattern of love and wisdom in our marriage, giving each the dignity and respect of being "sons of God" and we are in a joyful, blissful marriage that feels like the honeymoon has never ended. We are more deeply in love with each other now than we were the day we married.

I'm sorry but you're dead wrong, the logic you're using is the exact same Unitarians, Buddhists and atheists use. How can you be following a Biblical pattern of love and wisdom in our marriage when you decide to discard God's word and interject your wisdom contrary to it? I'm not interpreting anything, this is God's word. Is refraining from adultery, murder and worshipping other gods, petty legalism? This isn't an issue of mint, anise and cumin, this is modern instruction from Christ to our current lives and his church. The concept of if your drinking offends someone don't ever do it again has been as solid as any piece of scripture written since Christ. Truly believe you need a fresh understanding of just what love actually is. You are truly and utterly saying God's word is not true-if it feels good do it.

Moreover even if this wasn't such cut and dry sin, who are you to say that the right answer is for the husband to sacrifice his faith over a bottle of wine as opposed to the wife sacrificing a bottle of wine over her husbands beliefs? You can't make that call, where's her love for him? Wine vs. a man's faith, wine wins and call that love? Even if you do not believe in the bible you'd be hard pressed to make the case that she loves him by asking that he sacrifice his beliefs she was well aware of before they were married, over what? wine? seriously? This is love????? Thankfully Christians DO have God's word and clear instructions telling us that if drinking causes someone strife to stop it because it's only drink.

 

[enealey]

While they are at opposite ends, I see both sides of this issue. I do believe in Biblical submission of the wife to her husband and agree that if alcohol is causing strife, it’s better to just let it alone. The problem lies in the fact that my husband actually has said he has no problem with alcohol. I honestly believe he enjoys telling me where or when and punishing me when I’ve gone outside of the boundary. I’m wrong in that I purposefully went outside of the boundary. I know that, and I’m accountable for that.

I’m on my two week vacation at my families where in the past I have been “free” to partake. I was offered a glass... I said no out of respect and because we are going through this issue at present. A few minutes later, my husband pours me a glass and sets it before me. It was obvious this was out of spite and not because it was a gesture of love. If I drank it I would have dealt with it later in a conversation. It wasn’t worth it.

 

[Lucky9]

Summary Of Headship Passages:

1. • Lead selflessly and with love: Eph 5:25
   • Lead as you would want to be lead: Eph 5:33
   • Do not provoke to anger: Eph 6:4
   • Do not threaten: Eph 6:9
   • Lead lovingly, without bitterness: Col 3:19
   • Do not exasperate so that they lose heart: Col 3:20
   • Be just and fair to them: Col 4:1
   • Lead in an understanding way: 1 Pe 3:7
   • Grant honor as they are fellow heirs: 1 Pe 3:7
   • Not Lording it over: 1 Pe 5:2-3
   • Being an example: 1 Pe 5:3
   • lead knowing you will be judged by God for what you do: Eph 6:9; Col 3:25

 

[wagonwheel69]

While they are at opposite ends, I see both sides of this issue. I do believe in Biblical submission of the wife to her husband and agree that if alcohol is causing strife, it’s better to just let it alone. The problem lies in the fact that my husband actually has said he has no problem with alcohol. I honestly believe he enjoys telling me where or when and punishing me when I’ve gone outside of the boundary. I’m wrong in that I purposefully went outside of the boundary. I know that, and I’m accountable for that.

I’m on my two week vacation at my families where in the past I have been “free” to partake. I was offered a glass... I said no out of respect and because we are going through this issue at present. A few minutes later, my husband pours me a glass and sets it before me. It was obvious this was out of spite and not because it was a gesture of love. If I drank it I would have dealt with it later in a conversation. It wasn’t worth it.

It is very hard to genuinely gage a situation like this from the internet without both sides. My concern would be much greater for the behavior than the wine. Brutally honest, if he has a steadfast belief he doesn't want it in the house, my belief would be that it shouldn't be in the house. However that should not be because he wants to dominate you. If you truly believe he has a problem, I would ask him to have a sit down with your pastor and get some grounded input. Marriage is tough! The only enduring change I've ever seen in people has been in Christ. If he does have issues, shame him by being faithful to the Lord, that's God's word and I've seen it work.

 

[Endeavourer]

I'm sorry but you're dead wrong, the logic you're using is ......

Yet I'm in a very happy, joyful marriage which has caused my husband to comment many times about this or that aspect he noticed that parallels our relationship to Christ. We grow more in love with each other each passing year.

Is your logic working to provide the same for you?

 

[wagonwheel69]

Yet I'm in a very happy, joyful marriage which has caused my husband to comment many times about this or that aspect he noticed that parallels our relationship to Christ. We grow more in love with each other each passing year.

Is your logic working to provide the same for you?

No sure can't say all that, but I'd like to! Do you maybe have a sister or know someone else who knows more than God himself too????

 

[wagonwheel69]

The congregation I grew up. In insisted HE turned the. Water into grape juice; totally no alcohol

Gallo had that happen a few years ago, stocks really took a plunge! LOL