Is belief enough to be saved?

[Frogster]

Galatians 2:19-21: "19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Galatians 5:1-6: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love."

good stuff..and he called the law slavery in several places, and Peter called it a yoke in acts 15;10, like how paul did in your 5:1 verse of qalatians.



check this out..




Jesus..

Rev 2:24 But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden.

James..
Acts 15:28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:


Peter..
Acts 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?


Paul..

Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.



James...don't trouble the church by putting the law on them.

Acts 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,

 

[Montalban]

Its not negative, its love. He loves us and wants our love.

Jealousy is an opposite of love

 

[B-74]

Jealousy is an opposite of love

Are the scriptures lies then?

 

[Hentenza]

When you say "saving faith", I believe you are already talking about this kind of faith:

See you how faith worked with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2:22

Love + Faith = saving faith/complete faith/perfect faith etc.

Am I correct?

Yes but perfection is not attainable in this life so there will always be infirmity.

If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

We love because he first loved us. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister. 1 John 4:15-21

In light of your above statements, this would be my interpretation: those who walk in love have nothing to fear at judgement day.

Yes but look at what Paul tells us in Philippians 1:6

6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

God began the good work (faith) and will perfect that work until the day of Christ Jesus. We can not be univocal with Christ because we are still not perfect and can not be perfect in this life. We will sin and not love perfectly. In fact, it is impossible for us to love perfectly which is why the works that the Christian with saving faith does is the one prepared by God in advance for us to do (Eph. 2:10). The works that we can not boast about. This why Jesus died on the cross, to secure for us an eternal life even while we are still sinners (Rom. 5:8). The assurance of salvation extends only to those with saving faith in Jesus Christ. The works that we do we do from salvation not for salvation. Remember that not a single one that the Father has given Jesus will be removed from His hand.

 

[B-74]

Someone brought something to my attention, the random verse comment i made was referring to my own random verses about the temple. I wasn't talking about you guys, sorry for the misunderstanding.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7633103-47/#post59846488

http://www.christianforums.com/t7633103-46/#post59846438

 

[Habakk]

Galatians 2:19-21 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.


Notice something in the scripture above Paul was perfecting his faith by works. As the scripture in Habakkuk says the just shall LIVE by faith and Paul was living by faith fulfilling the law of Christ in his life. Do you think Paul was just sitting about saying I’m saved now I don’t need to do anything anymore?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Amen Frogster.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31: "30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

 

[B-74]

Amen Frogster.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31: "30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

Aren't we all?

 

[Hentenza]

Galatians 2:19-21 "19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.


Notice something in the scripture above Paul was perfecting his faith by works. As the scripture in Habakkuk says the just shall LIVE by faith and Paul was living by faith fulfilling the law of Christ in his life. Do you think Paul was just sitting about saying I’m saved now I don’t need to do anything anymore?

You pose a false dilemma. No one here is even hinting that "there is nothing left to do".

Eph. 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

There is plenty to do but we do these works from salvation not for salvation since even the works that we do are not our own so that we can not boast.

Paul did works from salvation not for salvation. Paul had assurance of salvation.

2 Cor. 5
1 For we know that if [a]the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

7 for we walk by faith, not by [c]sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

Notice the "We". Paul included.

Phil. 4:3
3 Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Paul knew that others with him were written in the book of life. Do you think that Paul did not know if His name was in the book of life?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

You pose a false dilemma. No one here is even hinting that "there is nothing left to do".

Eph. 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

There is plenty to do but we do these works from salvation not for salvation since even the works that we do are not our own so that we can not boast.

Paul did works from salvation not for salvation. Paul had assurance of salvation.

2 Cor. 5
1 For we know that if [a]the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

7 for we walk by faith, not by [c]sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

Notice the "We". Paul included.

Phil. 4:3
3 Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Paul knew that others with him were written in the book of life. Do you think that Paul did not know if His name was in the book of life?

Amen.

Philippians 3:7-11: "7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."

 

[God's Word]

Call me an optimist...

He most certainly was and his justification was BY WORKS and not by faith alone.

James 2:21-24

"Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS was faith made perfect? AND THE SCRIPTURE WAS FULFILLED WHICH SAITH, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. YE SEE THEN HOW THAT BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY."

There it is, AGAIN, folks. Abraham was JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT by faith only. In fact, the scripture which says that Abraham BELIEVED GOD was not fulfilled until his faith WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS. Were these works "the works of the law"? Nah, couldn't have been...the law came 430 years LATER.

Well, James said "seest thou how" and "ye see then how", but, alas, some will still shut their eyes to it. And so it goes...

Get ready for some more "magic wand", totally unrelated verses on "the works of the law". Trust me, they're coming...

Time to play with my children.


​

besides, when he beleived it was imputed. paul could not use Abe, and that gospel, and the rest of the context, if u r right.


gal 3;8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”

YOU SAY that Abraham was justified when he believed, but James says contrary. According to scripture, which I'll place above your opinion (or even my own) any day, the scripture that says Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness was fulfilled when his faith wrought with his works or when he attempted to sacrifice Isaac in obedience to what God had commanded him. You're wrong. The scriptures are right. It's that simple.

Also, Paul could not only use Abraham in that context, but he did use Abraham in that context. Look, your problem is simple...

Anytime I or anybody else says "good works", you hear "works of the law". They're not the same thing. Deal with it. Paul preached good works TO EVERYBODY. Here it is, IN HIS OWN WORDS:

Acts 26:19-20

"Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: BUT SHEWED UNTO THEM OF DAMASCUS, AND AT JERUSALEM, AND THROUGHOUT ALL THE COASTS OF JUDEA, AND THEN TO THE GENTILES, THAT THEY SHOULD REPENT AND TURN TO GOD, AND DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE."

That's pretty simple, isn't it? Paul told both Jews and Gentiles to not only repent towards God, but also to DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE. He also said the following:

Ephesians 2:10

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God hath ordained that we should walk in them."

Are you against what GOD ordained? Incidentally, this "we" included both Jew (Paul and others) and Gentiles.

I Timothy 2:9-10

"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array, But (which becometh women professing godliness) WITH GOOD WORKS."

Paul said that women who profess godliness should adorn themselves WITH GOOD WORKS. Do you agree or disagree?

I Timothy 5:9-10

"Let not a widow be taken in the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, WELL REPORTED OF FOR GOOD WORKS..."

Paul wouldn't even let a widow come under the church's care unless she was WELL REPORTED OF FOR GOOD WORKS. To listen to the nonsense that you and others keep on espousing, one would think that he would have told such widows that they were "bewitched" or something. Again, GOOD WORKS are NOT synonymous with "the works of the law"...if you believe Paul, that is.

I Timothy 6:17-18

"Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, THAT THEY BE RICH IN GOOD WORKS, ready to distribute, willing to communicate..."

When Paul charged those who are rich to BE RICH IN GOOD WORKS, was he bringing them back under the law? To listen to you (and some others) speak, that's what one would have to conclude. It's ridiculous.

II Timothy 3:16-17

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS."

The entirety of scripture was given that we might be THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS. Seriously, can't you see how off your current position is? Again, GOOD WORKS are NOT synonymous with "the works of the law"...according to Paul.

Titus 1:16

"They profess that they know God, BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, AND UNTO EVERY GOOD WORK REPROBATE."

Does this need commentary? Those who profess to know God and deny Him IN WORKS are abominable, disobedient and reprobate.

Titus 2:6-7

"Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. IN ALL THINGS SHEWING THYSELF A PATTERN OF GOOD WORKS: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity..."

Was Paul placing these young men "under the law"? Again, it's ridiculous.

I Timothy 2:11-15

"For THE GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

Did you see that? THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGS SALVATION teaches us some things. One of the things that it teaches us is that Jesus gave Himself for us that we would be ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS. Oh, dear. Poor, misguided Paul. "Fusing" grace and works, again. Well, let's hope that he made it...by the skin of his teeth.

Titus 3:8

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, THAT THEY WHICH HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD MIGHT BE CAREFUL TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men."

Paul said that such things ought to be affirmed constantly and, yet, you and others rail against such constantly. Someone is in grievous error and it is you.

Titus 3:14

"And let ours also learn TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful."

More of the same. Incidentally, all of these quotes from Timothy and Titus are in Paul's PASTORAL EPISTLES. Bad, bad Paul...corrupting the whole church.

Oh, well, as usual, I fully expect that you'll ignore all of these verses and just answer with some unrelated nonsense about "the works of the law". No worries. Somebody will get it.

Good night.

 

[B-74]

You pose a false dilemma. No one here is even hinting that "there is nothing left to do".

Forgive me, but you guys bring this stuff on yourselves, if you would just talk about other things once in a while we wouldn't take you wrong. Could you imagine if we never talked about being saved by grace alone? You would think we were talking about false doctrine. Its a failure to properly communicate.

 

[Habakk]

Aren't we all?

Yes, I hope so.

 

[Hentenza]

Ephesians 2:10

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God hath ordained that we should walk in them."

Are you against what GOD ordained? Incidentally, this "we" included both Jew (Paul and others) and Gentiles.

Wait a minute. Which translation are you using? Your translation is missing προητοίμασεν which means before hand. The verse should read:

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Also, the two verses right before this one read:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Salvation is a gift. It is freely given. No one can work for salvation. Grace is not grace if one has to work for it.

 

[Lion King]

James 2:10: "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all."

I live by the Law of the LORD, which is LOVE. If I fail to love, I have already failed to keep the whole Law of God.

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” Luke 10:25-28

_ _ _ _

Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining. 1 John 2:7-8

_ _ _ _

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:34-35

_ _ _ _

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10

_ _ _ _

He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

_ _ _ _

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

[Albion]

He probably does NOT think that all works are works of the law, but if that is to be the thrust of your attack, it does nothing for confronting those people who correctly understand that works usually refer to works of mercy and that they don't contribute to our salvation, either.

 

[B-74]

Yes, I hope so.

These verses comes to mind. When we glory in the Lord His truth is always present, we need not fear speaking the truth, it does not get in the way of Gods grace, it compliments it.

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Hentenza]

Forgive me, but you guys bring this stuff on yourselves, if you would just talk about other things once in a while we wouldn't take you wrong. Could you imagine if we never talked about being saved by grace alone? You would think we were talking about false doctrine. Its a failure to properly communicate.

What? I have no idea what you said. Sorry.

Salvation by works is an error. Works can not save. Those that propose a combination of faith and works for salvation are in essence teaching a works salvation because works becomes a quantifiable requirement of salvation. This is contrary to scripture.

 

[B-74]

What? I have no idea what you said. Sorry.

Salvation by works is an error. Works can not save. Those that propose a combination of faith and works for salvation are in essence teaching a works salvation because works becomes a quantifiable requirement of salvation. This is contrary to scripture.

Who is saying that? Have we not all said salvation comes only by faith in Gods grace? Did not James, Paul and Jesus speak of good works? Why shouldn't we?

 

[Lion King]

tell me what the laws were?

how can u keep em, when it does not say what they were?

Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:7-12

Love has always been the Law of the LORD, since the beginning.