Is Baptismal Regeneration False?

[Phil W]

Hearing, believing, having faith are all connected to 1 Cor 15:1-4, and trusting in God’s righteousness which is revealed in the gospel This is through believing, the gospel and abiding in him through faith.

Amen to that.

The repenting part is before we come to faith , repent and believe the gospel.

I don't remember seeing anyone in the bible "turning from" sin before they believed the gospel.

The enduring to the end is also connected to continuing in the faith. Through faith Christ dwells in our heart and this is how we overcome the world. We must abide in him through continual faith unto the end.

Again, amen to that.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I don't remember seeing anyone in the bible "turning from" sin before they believed the gospel.

About the repenting part first here are some verses. To “repent “ means to change your mind about the way your going. To do the works of repentance is when you repent and then believe and have Christ dwell in your heart. Then he enables us to do all things in Him. This is how we show that we have repented and believe.

2 Corinthians 7:10. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”

Notice repentance first

Mark 1:15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”

Acts 26:20. But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.”

Hebrews 6:1. Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,”

 

[nolidad]

Or, you can't believe that anyone actually loves God above all else.


If you are "in Christ" you have been made free from sin and the second death.
BTW, He conquered sin and death by remaining true to the Father.
He freed us from sin and death by allowing our own death, burial, and resurrection with Him in water baptism. (Rom 6>3-6)
The next verse?..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
"I" am dead, and a new creature has taken "my" place on earth. Thanks be to God !


I believe Paul is preaching to both believers and unbelievers.
Which do you suppose will take to heart and do the exhortations presented by Paul?
The unbeliever won't...that's for sure.


I can assure you that living a Godly life is no "problem".
God made my "position" a reality, and He can do the same for everyone.
You write that "our experience in life- which is growing towards that sinless perfection!", but can't get a grip on somebody actually achieving it...by the grace of God.
Why are you not seeking that which you say "we" are growing toward?


All the words in the bible are for anybody who is seeking God...believer and unbeliever.


As "perfection" is such a gradual transformation (to you), I guess you think that sanctification is too.
My sanctification took place when the atoning blood of Christ "sanctified" my body when I was water baptized into Christ (and His death' burial, and resurrection). (Rom 6:3-6)
How can a man reborn of God's seed NOT be perfect?


If I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God, and sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, how can I commit sin?
Fact is, I can't.


Do you think God would withhold the ability to reject temptations?
"If God be for us, who can be against us?"



I don't "have to" maintain anything; I have been allowed, by the power of God, to manifest Christ on earth.
Something sinners can't do.
They are still "without strength".


Do you suppose God would have left Paul without the ability to keep the flesh dead...daily?
I know God didn't keep Paul from the power of life in Christ Jesus.
Paul wrote this..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Just three verses apart from your siting.


I sure hope that sinner finally had a REAL "turn from sin".
Unfortunately the scripture doesn't say whether or not he did come to Christ.
If they tossed this guy out for his sin, why do you suppose that sinfulness is "the norm" in churches today?


He never had it, as he manifested that he still walked in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
If they believed, they would have believed "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Believers look for and find the "escapes".



Are sinners "following" Jesus?
No, as they are not His sheep.

A life without sin awaits all who are willing to love God above all else and their neighbor as they love themselves.
Too much to ask?
Salvation by works?
Skin in their way?
A thousand and one other reasons to continue in rebellion against God are conveniently espoused to the people, but God gives His Spirit to the regenerated to keep them pure, holy, sanctified, perfect.
All things are possible with God.

Or, you can't believe that anyone actually loves God above all else.


If you are "in Christ" you have been made free from sin and the second death.
BTW, He conquered sin and death by remaining true to the Father.
He freed us from sin and death by allowing our own death, burial, and resurrection with Him in water baptism. (Rom 6>3-6)
The next verse?..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
"I" am dead, and a new creature has taken "my" place on earth. Thanks be to God !


I believe Paul is preaching to both believers and unbelievers.
Which do you suppose will take to heart and do the exhortations presented by Paul?
The unbeliever won't...that's for sure.


I can assure you that living a Godly life is no "problem".
God made my "position" a reality, and He can do the same for everyone.
You write that "our experience in life- which is growing towards that sinless perfection!", but can't get a grip on somebody actually achieving it...by the grace of God.
Why are you not seeking that which you say "we" are growing toward?


All the words in the bible are for anybody who is seeking God...believer and unbeliever.


As "perfection" is such a gradual transformation (to you), I guess you think that sanctification is too.
My sanctification took place when the atoning blood of Christ "sanctified" my body when I was water baptized into Christ (and His death' burial, and resurrection). (Rom 6:3-6)
How can a man reborn of God's seed NOT be perfect?


If I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God, and sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, how can I commit sin?
Fact is, I can't.


Do you think God would withhold the ability to reject temptations?
"If God be for us, who can be against us?"



I don't "have to" maintain anything; I have been allowed, by the power of God, to manifest Christ on earth.
Something sinners can't do.
They are still "without strength".


Do you suppose God would have left Paul without the ability to keep the flesh dead...daily?
I know God didn't keep Paul from the power of life in Christ Jesus.
Paul wrote this..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Just three verses apart from your siting.


I sure hope that sinner finally had a REAL "turn from sin".
Unfortunately the scripture doesn't say whether or not he did come to Christ.
If they tossed this guy out for his sin, why do you suppose that sinfulness is "the norm" in churches today?


He never had it, as he manifested that he still walked in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
If they believed, they would have believed "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Believers look for and find the "escapes".



Are sinners "following" Jesus?
No, as they are not His sheep.

A life without sin awaits all who are willing to love God above all else and their neighbor as they love themselves.
Too much to ask?
Salvation by works?
Skin in their way?
A thousand and one other reasons to continue in rebellion against God are conveniently espoused to the people, but God gives His Spirit to the regenerated to keep them pure, holy, sanctified, perfect.
All things are possible with God.

No I believe we can love Jesus above all else and that the saints are still human and God is still compassionate on His children You on the other hand have God as passionless on HIs children and if they screw up once they have been saved- they are cast out. that is not the god of the bible. 1 John 1:9 is for teh children of god!


Yes we are in Christ and have been set free from sin and death! But the bible does not teach sinless perfection 24/7 in thought , word and deed as you teach in order for Gods love to still be effective in your life.

Maybe you should read the Intros to all of pauls letters--they were written to churches or individual saints-never once to unbelievers.

You have been allowed? You believe you live in sinless perfection! You won't answer, but you are convinced you have ceased from sin for X amount of time.

As for 1 Cor. 15? Some do not have the knowledge of God. You just teach that anyone who claims Christ as Savior and commits any sin does not have Christ as Savior. And what happens when a Child of God succumbs to temptation? You say they are not saved- but Gods Word says this:

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I am not making a license or excuse to sin, I am just saying that God is rich in mercy and forgiveness because of the blood Jesus shed! YOu OTOH have a god that has little to no mercy to those who He saved! Your motto for your god seems: screw up and you are done.



Yes God has given us all the Holy Spirit without measure so we no longer have to sin! But when we do we have 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 2:1 You think that Jesus no longer advocates for those who were saved.

YOu write: "Why are you not seeking that which you say "we" are growing toward?"

And why do you commit the sin of presumptuousness by thinking I am not?

You write: "
"Are sinners "following" Jesus?
No, as they are not His sheep."

YOu need to study the original languages. The Bible makes a clear distinction between "sinners" and believers who stumble in sin.

Yes with god all things are possible. and yes it is possible for one to live a sinless life! But the ones that would achieve this- would not espouse the kind of cruel God you espouse.

to you once someone is truly saved, they have to cease from all sin immediately or else they lose their salvation or were never saved. YOu would require a babe in Christ to know everyact that displeases God and become a master theologian when it comes to righteous vs. unrighteous thoughts words and deeds. This is not the god who is Creator and Savior!

 

[Phil W]

About the repenting part first here are some verses. To “repent “ means to change your mind about the way your going. To do the works of repentance is when you repent and then beluevevand have Christ dwell in your heart. Then he enables us to do all things in Him. This is how we show that we have repented and believe.

2 Corinthians 7:10. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”

Notice repentance first

Mark 1:15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”

Acts 26:20. But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.”

Hebrews 6:1. Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,”

Thank you for the wonderful verses, but what I'm saying is...without hearing and believing, among other things, what repentance is, and how it will affect the rest of one's life, that there is actually nothing to have faith in.
You have to hear about something before you can believe it...or come to repentance from sin.

 

[Phil W]

No I believe we can love Jesus above all else and that the saints are still human and God is still compassionate on His children You on the other hand have God as passionless on HIs children and if they screw up once they have been saved- they are cast out. that is not the god of the bible. 1 John 1:9 is for teh children of God!

You are blaming the committing of sin on being human.
Jesus was human, and never sinned.
The reborn don't have to have excuses for sin. Those reborn of God'seed cannot commit sin because His seed remains in them.
Remember Jesus's, and James' words about fruit can only bear after it's progenitor?
You can't get grapes from fig trees...etc.
You can't get wickedness from God's seed.
BTW, those who commit sin love the sin more than God

Yes we are in Christ and have been set free from sin and death! But the bible does not teach sinless perfection 24/7 in thought , word and deed as you teach in order for Gods love to still be effective in your life.

Yes, the bible does teach "sinless perfection".
I'll include 6 of the nearly thirty verses that pertain to it...
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32-36)
[33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
[35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. “
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:22-23)
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom.6:6-7)
" There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

Maybe you should read the Intros to all of pauls letters--they were written to churches or individual saints-never once to unbelievers.

I was an unbeliever the first times I read them.
Just because the letters were sent to churches doesn't mean all in attendance were Christians.
Some still needed help to experience the circumcision done without hands.

You have been allowed? You believe you live in sinless perfection! You won't answer, but you are convinced you have ceased from sin for X amount of time.

Why wouldn't I acknowledge the glory, grace, and power of God in my life?
He freed me from committing sin...by offering me the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, and to allow me to take part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
He gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost, the seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
I can do all things in Christ who protects and provides for me.

As for 1 Cor. 15? Some do not have the knowledge of God. You just teach that anyone who claims Christ as Savior and commits any sin does not have Christ as Savior. And what happens when a Child of God succumbs to temptation?

What happens is that that child has manifested that God is not his father...as per 1 John 3:8-10..."He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

You say they are not saved- but Gods Word says this:
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The folks still committing sin are the "any man".
As you would have noticed in the next verses..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)

I am not making a license or excuse to sin, I am just saying that God is rich in mercy and forgiveness because of the blood Jesus shed! YOu OTOH have a god that has little to no mercy to those who He saved! Your motto for your god seems: screw up and you are done.

You seek a doctor, and I sought a cure.
And I found One!

Yes God has given us all the Holy Spirit without measure so we no longer have to sin! But when we do we have 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 2:1 You think that Jesus no longer advocates for those who were saved.

Why ignore the tools God has given us?
As you said..."we no longer have to sin"...so quit sinning!

YOu write: "Why are you not seeking that which you say "we" are growing toward?"
And why do you commit the sin of presumptuousness by thinking I am not?

Why do you cling to the past when the future has been opened to you?

You write: "
"Are sinners "following" Jesus?
No, as they are not His sheep."
YOu need to study the original languages. The Bible makes a clear distinction between "sinners" and believers who stumble in sin.
Yes with god all things are possible. and yes it is possible for one to live a sinless life! But the ones that would achieve this- would not espouse the kind of cruel God you espouse.

Sheep follow their keeper.
How does a translation change that?
And as you have written..."and yes it is possible for one to live a sinless"...but continue to make excuses for sin.
It puzzles me.

to you once someone is truly saved, they have to cease from all sin immediately or else they lose their salvation or were never saved. YOu would require a babe in Christ to know everyact that displeases God and become a master theologian when it comes to righteous vs. unrighteous thoughts words and deeds. This is not the god who is Creator and Savior!

New converts can take refuge in this verse..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Even the veteran Christian grows in grace and knowledge...and he seeks out the escapes provided by God to reject devilishness.
God provide the teachers, pastors, and those to fellowship with.
It is incumbent on the convert to hold on to God with everything at his disposal.
And there is a lot at his disposal.

 

[nolidad]

You are blaming the committing of sin on being human.
Jesus was human, and never sinned.
The reborn don't have to have excuses for sin. Those reborn of God'seed cannot commit sin because His seed remains in them.
Remember Jesus's, and James' words about fruit can only bear after it's progenitor?
You can't get grapes from fig trees...etc.
You can't get wickedness from God's seed.
BTW, those who commit sin love the sin more than God



Yes, the bible does teach "sinless perfection".
I'll include 6 of the nearly thirty verses that pertain to it...
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32-36)
[33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
[35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. “
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:22-23)
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom.6:6-7)
" There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)


I was an unbeliever the first times I read them.
Just because the letters were sent to churches doesn't mean all in attendance were Christians.
Some still needed help to experience the circumcision done without hands.


Why wouldn't I acknowledge the glory, grace, and power of God in my life?
He freed me from committing sin...by offering me the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, and to allow me to take part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
He gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost, the seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
I can do all things in Christ who protects and provides for me.


What happens is that that child has manifested that God is not his father...as per 1 John 3:8-10..."He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


The folks still committing sin are the "any man".
As you would have noticed in the next verses..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)


You seek a doctor, and I sought a cure.
And I found One!


Why ignore the tools God has given us?
As you said..."we no longer have to sin"...so quit sinning!


Why do you cling to the past when the future has been opened to you?


Sheep follow their keeper.
How does a translation change that?
And as you have written..."and yes it is possible for one to live a sinless"...but continue to make excuses for sin.
It puzzles me.


New converts can take refuge in this verse..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Even the veteran Christian grows in grace and knowledge...and he seeks out the escapes provided by God to reject devilishness.
God provide the teachers, pastors, and those to fellowship with.
It is incumbent on the convert to hold on to God with everything at his disposal.
And there is a lot at his disposal.

Jesus was human but did not have a sin nature!

I agree the new man is incapable of sin- but the old man still resides on our bodies and at times all give in to temptation! all except you of course! since th day you were saved you believe you have lived a sinless life!

You : "BTW, those who commit sin love the sin more than God". Yes we all do ! But we thank god that His mercy is never ending for HIs children!

BTW how do you block quote like you did for my responses you are answering to?????


You : ""Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

Now go and learn what Jesus said in the Hebrew and Greek!

As for John 8: Once again go learn what Jesus really said!

as for Romans 8:1 You have fallen into the common trap. The phrase "for those who walk...." is a copying error from verse 4 that has stayed from Erasmus' textus receptus. It does not appear in the the majority of ancient manuscripts and ante nicene father writings.

YOu : "
I was an unbeliever the first times I read them.
Just because the letters were sent to churches doesn't mean all in attendance were Christians.
Some still needed help to experience the circumcision done without hands."

That is a lame answer that is beneath you! The letters were written to churches- to the saints!


You : "
Why wouldn't I acknowledge the glory, grace, and power of God in my life?
He freed me from committing sin...by offering me the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, and to allow me to take part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
He gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost, the seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
I can do all things in Christ who protects and provides for me."

So give me the simple answer and not these long windbag dances---- are yuou saying that since you were born again - you have not committed any sins in thought, word or deed and that you have been in a state fo sinless perfection in action? The direct answer is yes or no!

If you have achieved- then good for you! The rest of the saints of God and children of God still are learning how to give up the old and live in the new as the Bible commands us to!


YOu : "
Why wouldn't I acknowledge the glory, grace, and power of God in my life?
He freed me from committing sin...by offering me the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, and to allow me to take part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
He gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost, the seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
I can do all things in Christ who protects and provides for me."

so can't I and when I fail- I know that all my sins have already been paid for! Which makes me love HIm more and strive for less sini in my life! See 1 John 1:9 is for his children!


You : "Why do you cling to the past when the future has been opened to you?"

I don't cling to the past- I rejoice in my future with my savior!


You : "
Sheep follow their keeper.
How does a translation change that?
And as you have written..."and yes it is possible for one to live a sinless"...but continue to make excuses for sin.
It puzzles me."

Well of course it puzzles you- you have sinned the sin of presumption because I do not make excuses for sin!

How does a translation change that??? Well put your nose in the greek and Hebrew and get you a good parsing guide and you will learn !


You : "
It is incumbent on the convert to hold on to God with everything at his disposal.
And there is a lot at his disposal."

Well the way you have made it appear by your writings yes your private doctrine requires that.

Bottom line is you have God as a fierce harsh overlord! He so loved the world He gave His only begotten son! That He would leave the 99 to seek the one. but once He has brought them in the fold and they screw up?
BAM! They have lost their salvation and thus lost forever with no hope as the Bible declares. Mercy for the lost- but wrath for the saved if they should dare sin against that loveless God to His children if they are less than perfect in everything!

I for one am glad the Bible does not teach you ridea of God and salvation. If it did it would be lonely in heaven with just the Trinity and you!

Everyone I know is less than perfect in their experience, but perfect in the eyes of God!

 

[LoveofTruth]

Thank you for the wonderful verses, but what I'm saying is...without hearing and believing, among other things, what repentance is, and how it will affect the rest of one's life, that there is actually nothing to have faith in.
You have to hear about something before you can believe it...or come to repentance from sin.

Repentance comes after the Light has reproved us inwardly (John 1:9, John 3:19-21) this is the light of the word or seed sown. And as we tremble at his word he looks to us and as we receive him he gives life. This can happen when repentance is preached and remission of sins through belief of the gospel. But if we sin after this we need to also repent.

Revelation 2:5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

2 Corinthians 12:21. And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.”

And about the inward mystery of Christ, the true Light and the seed sown, the word of God we read,

John 1:9. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

John 3:19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

Ephesians 5:13. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.”

Hebrews 4:12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

Luke 8:11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.12. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.14. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.15. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”

 

[Phil W]

Jesus was human but did not have a sin nature!

Then He was a poor example for us to follow.
It is written that "He was tempted in all points like as we are", (Heb 4:15)
Where do you find "sin nature" in the bible?

I agree the new man is incapable of sin- but the old man still resides on our bodies and at times all give in to temptation! all except you of course! since th day you were saved you believe you have lived a sinless life!

Do you believe Romans 6:6 and 8:9-10?

You : "BTW, those who commit sin love the sin more than God". Yes we all do ! But we thank god that His mercy is never ending for His children!

Do you believe 1 John 3:9-10?

BTW how do you block quote like you did for my responses you are answering to?????

You have to start each portion of what you reply TO with...[QUOTE@@@]
You have to end each portion of what you reply TO with...[/QUOTE@@@]
"My" paragraph must be encased with those starters-enders.
(I had to add the @@@ in order for my post to even be printed out, You should omit the @s)

You : ""Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
Now go and learn what Jesus said in the Hebrew and Greek!
As for John 8: Once again go learn what Jesus really said!
as for Romans 8:1 You have fallen into the common trap. The phrase "for those who walk...." is a copying error from verse 4 that has stayed from Erasmus' textus receptus. It does not appear in the the majority of ancient manuscripts and ante nicene father writings.
YOu : "
I was an unbeliever the first times I read them.
Just because the letters were sent to churches doesn't mean all in attendance were Christians.
Some still needed help to experience the circumcision done without hands."
That is a lame answer that is beneath you! The letters were written to churches- to the saints!
You : "
Why wouldn't I acknowledge the glory, grace, and power of God in my life?
He freed me from committing sin...by offering me the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, and to allow me to take part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
He gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost, the seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
I can do all things in Christ who protects and provides for me."

Doesn't it trouble you at all that every teaching you try to share with me will enable me to commit sin?
I don't want to commit sin !

So give me the simple answer and not these long windbag dances---- are yuou saying that since you were born again - you have not committed any sins in thought, word or deed and that you have been in a state fo sinless perfection in action? The direct answer is yes or no!

Yes.
It is written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
I "suffered with Christ" when I was water baptized into Christ's death.
I have ceased from sin...to the glory of God and the truth of scripture.

If you have achieved- then good for you! The rest of the saints of God and children of God still are learning how to give up the old and live in the new as the Bible commands us to!

YOu : "
Why wouldn't I acknowledge the glory, grace, and power of God in my life?
He freed me from committing sin...by offering me the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, and to allow me to take part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
He gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost, the seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
I can do all things in Christ who protects and provides for me."

so can't I and when I fail- I know that all my sins have already been paid for! Which makes me love HIm more and strive for less sini in my life! See 1 John 1:9 is for his children!

Your NT doctrine is OT doctrine...ie. sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone...
Christ freed us from servitude to satan.
He has allowed us to walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh.
BTW, there is no mention of "future sins" being washed away by the blood of Christ...unless you are siting Hebrews 6:4-6, which says it can't happen.

I for one am glad the Bible does not teach your idea of God and salvation. If it did it would be lonely in heaven with just the Trinity and you!

Many are called, but few are chosen.
I wish you would change your mind and appreciate freedom from sin instead of freedom to sin.

 

[Phil W]

Repentance comes after the Light has reproved us inwardly (John 1:9, John 3:19-21) this is the light of the word or seed sown. And as we tremble at his word he looks to us and as we receive him he gives life.

This can happen when repentance is preached and remission of sins through belief of the gospel. But if we sin after this we need to also repent.

We must believe what is preached in order to do what is commanded.
We are in agreement on all these points.
But your last sentence troubles me.
If we have "turned from sin" (Repented}, how can there be any more sin?
More sin manifests that the first repentance was a lie.
We can't build a relationship with God that is based on lies.

One repentance, turn from sin, is all that should be necessary.

 

[nolidad]

Then He was a poor example for us to follow.
It is written that "He was tempted in all points like as we are", (Heb 4:15)
Where do you find "sin nature" in the bible?


Do you believe Romans 6:6 and 8:9-10?


Do you believe 1 John 3:9-10?


You have to start each portion of what you reply TO with...[QUOTE@@@]
You have to end each portion of what you reply TO with...[/QUOTE@@@]
"My" paragraph must be encased with those starters-enders.
(I had to add the @@@ in order for my post to even be printed out, You should omit the @s)


Doesn't it trouble you at all that every teaching you try to share with me will enable me to commit sin?
I don't want to commit sin !


Yes.
It is written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
I "suffered with Christ" when I was water baptized into Christ's death.
I have ceased from sin...to the glory of God and the truth of scripture.

If you have achieved- then good for you! The rest of the saints of God and children of God still are learning how to give up the old and live in the new as the Bible commands us to!



Your NT doctrine is OT doctrine...ie. sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone...
Christ freed us from servitude to satan.
He has allowed us to walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh.
BTW, there is no mention of "future sins" being washed away by the blood of Christ...unless you are siting Hebrews 6:4-6, which says it can't happen.


Many are called, but few are chosen.
I wish you would change your mind and appreciate freedom from sin instead of freedom to sin.

Then He was a poor example for us to follow.
It is written that "He was tempted in all points like as we are", (Heb 4:15)
Where do you find "sin nature" in the bible?


Do you believe Romans 6:6 and 8:9-10?


Do you believe 1 John 3:9-10?


You have to start each portion of what you reply TO with...[QUOTE@@@]
You have to end each portion of what you reply TO with...[/QUOTE@@@]
"My" paragraph must be encased with those starters-enders.
(I had to add the @@@ in order for my post to even be printed out, You should omit the @s)


Doesn't it trouble you at all that every teaching you try to share with me will enable me to commit sin?
I don't want to commit sin !


Yes.
It is written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
I "suffered with Christ" when I was water baptized into Christ's death.
I have ceased from sin...to the glory of God and the truth of scripture.

If you have achieved- then good for you! The rest of the saints of God and children of God still are learning how to give up the old and live in the new as the Bible commands us to!



Your NT doctrine is OT doctrine...ie. sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone...
Christ freed us from servitude to satan.
He has allowed us to walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh.
BTW, there is no mention of "future sins" being washed away by the blood of Christ...unless you are siting Hebrews 6:4-6, which says it can't happen.


Many are called, but few are chosen.
I wish you would change your mind and appreciate freedom from sin instead of freedom to sin.

Sorry you feel He was a poor example. But He was born without a sin nature.


You: "
Doesn't it trouble you at all that every teaching you try to share with me will enable me to commit sin?
I don't want to commit sin !"

sorry you think that way, because it is not true! I do not want to commit sin either, but reality is different! All my students know I teach holiness with a vengeance- but I also teach the grace and mercy and advocacy of Jesus .

As for sin nature in the bible?

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

All of mankind is totally alienated by God by their very nature!

1 cor. 2: 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Sin nature is just a synonym for the flesh or the natural man!

You: "Do you believe Romans 6:6 and 8:9-10?"

Yes I do! Do you believe 1 joHN 1:9 is for believers as John wrote to?

You: "Many are called, but few are chosen.
I wish you would change your mind and appreciate freedom from sin instead of freedom to sin."

Once again you have sinned by presuming my thoughts! Which by the way your presumption is 100% dead wrong!


You : "Your NT doctrine is OT doctrine...ie. sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone...
Christ freed us from servitude to satan.
He has allowed us to walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh.
BTW, there is no mention of "future sins" being washed away by the blood of Christ...unless you are siting Hebrews 6:4-6, which says it can't happen."

Once again your presumptions of me are 100% wrong- for I do not think this way at all!

So you do not believe that Jesus died for all your sins. It appears you declare that He only shed His blood for the sins you committed before you became a believer! That is so wqrong biblically!

When you were baptized to become a believer- were you given instant full knowledge of what is all sin and what is not? Attitudes, thoughts, sins of omission as well as sins of commission?

We are commanded to pray always? Do you?

Paul was misled when he wrote this according to your thought process:

Galatians 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted

According to you this man cannot be restored (meaning he is saved), so attem,pting to place him back is futile!

Your biggest problem it appears is that you do not know the biblical difference between our relationship with God and our fellowship with god!

 

[nolidad]

We must believe what is preached in order to do what is commanded.
We are in agreement on all these points.
But your last sentence troubles me.
If we have "turned from sin" (Repented}, how can there be any more sin?
More sin manifests that the first repentance was a lie.
We can't build a relationship with God that is based on lies.

One repentance, turn from sin, is all that should be necessary.

For salvation yes, for restoration of fellowship- we must acknowledge our sin every time it is committed.

Jesus told the disciples to forgive 70 X 7, you OTOH teach- one failure and you are through!

The word of God teaches:

Romans 5: "
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Cannot you see? We are saved, justifed, glorified and sanctified all on the basis of Jesus- not us attaining sinless perfection! Am I secretly promoting sin! God forbid! But I recognize the reality that saints do fall short! and that the mercy of God because of Jesus far outweighs our failings!

In the passage above- cannot you see the contrast- If while we were enemies God so loved us....how much more now being reconciled by the blood...

All saints perfect in experience (just you) and the rest of the body of Christ (not so perfect) all have access because of Him, not our deeds.

Once again you make God a cruel hateful god! At best you make people who have placed their trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin for their salvation, if they should sin after that acxt of faith- as not ever having been saved should they fail in the future! This is not teh Word of God!

You should learn positional truth- it would keep you from this spiritual arrogance!

We are already crucified with Christ and Christ lives in me.
I am already seated in heavenly places with Christ

I am already once for all time justified, called, predestined, adopted and translated from the kingdom of darkness to His kingdom.

While you believe you do not need this verse-the rest of your brothers and sisters rejoice that God is doing this work:

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now learn what the present passive participle means for the word sanctified!

Also we rejoice at this:

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

And we rejoice that god is patient with His children as we work out Romans 12:1-2 and learn how not to conform, but to be transformed!


And you declare you have a higher status than Paul did! For he wrote this in Philippians.

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

According to your doctrine, because Paul was not already perfect but striving to ber so, He was not saved when He wrote all the epistles!

 

[Phil W]

Sorry you feel He was a poor example. But He was born without a sin nature.

I don't feel He was a poor example, as He took upon Himself flesh so He could endure all that we endure...including temptation.

You: "Doesn't it trouble you at all that every teaching you try to share with me will enable me to commit sin?
I don't want to commit sin !"

sorry you think that way, because it is not true! I do not want to commit sin either, but reality is different! All my students know I teach holiness with a vengeance- but I also teach the grace and mercy and advocacy of Jesus .

Then use that Advocate to kill the flesh so you can walk in the Spirit instead.
It happens at our baptismal regeneration.
Crucify the flesh, bury it, and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The end result is freedom from sin. (Rom 6:7)
If you really didn't want to commit sin you would be straining to hear more about it. You would see the fallacies of what you have previously believed. They have captured you in an endless revolving door of imperfection.
That is the OT.
That is not what God desires for His children.

As for sin nature in the bible?
Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
All of mankind is totally alienated by God by their very nature!
1 cor. 2: 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Sin nature is just a synonym for the flesh or the natural man!

Jesus had skin.
"Sin nature" is not in the bible. Only men's interpretation of it.

You: "Do you believe Romans 6:6 and 8:9-10?"
Yes I do!
Do you believe 1 John 1:9 is for believers as John wrote to?

Verses 5 and 7 concerns those in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 concern those walking in darkness.
Verse 9 is the means of changing from one road to another.
John is describing two very different types of man.
One sins, and the other doesn't.
Those who have confessed their sins can now walk in the light...where there is no darkness/sin.

You: "Many are called, but few are chosen.
I wish you would change your mind and appreciate freedom from sin instead of freedom to sin."
Once again you have sinned by presuming my thoughts! Which by the way your presumption is 100% dead wrong!

You have made no movement advocating righteousness, only defense of sinning.

You : "Your NT doctrine is OT doctrine...ie. sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone, sin-atone...
Christ freed us from servitude to satan.
He has allowed us to walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh.
BTW, there is no mention of "future sins" being washed away by the blood of Christ...unless you are siting Hebrews 6:4-6, which says it can't happen."
Once again your presumptions of me are 100% wrong- for I do not think this way at all!

I didn't say "you", I mentioned your doctrine.

So you do not believe that Jesus died for all your sins. It appears you declare that He only shed His blood for the sins you committed before you became a believer! That is so wqrong biblically!

Yes I do believe Jesus died for all our sins, but I also know that believers don't commit more sins after their regeneration.

When you were baptized to become a believer- were you given instant full knowledge of what is all sin and what is not? Attitudes, thoughts, sins of omission as well as sins of commission?

No, I continue to grow in grace and knowledge every day.
But who doesn't know that stealing, lying, murder, etc. are wrong?

We are commanded to pray always? Do you?

You better believe it.

Paul was misled when he wrote this according to your thought process:
Galatians 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted
According to you this man cannot be restored (meaning he is saved), so attempting to place him back is futile!

Not at all misled, but making provision for those whose previous walk in Christ was exposed for a walk in the darkness.
Labeled "unspiritual" by Paul, he bade those who were spiritual to restore them to the right ways of the light.
No man walking in the flesh, instead of in the Spirit, is going to heaven.

Your biggest problem it appears is that you do not know the biblical difference between our relationship with God and our fellowship with god!

As if there were a difference.

 

[Phil W]

For salvation yes, for restoration of fellowship- we must acknowledge our sin every time it is committed.

If your "turn from" sin is real, there won't be any more sin.

Jesus told the disciples to forgive 70 X 7, you OTOH teach- one failure and you are through!

Yes, Jesus did.
I teach that there don't have to be any failure at all.
Those who persist in walking in darkness have only themselves to blame for their destruction.

The word of God teaches:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Cannot you see? We are saved, justifed, glorified and sanctified all on the basis of Jesus- not us attaining sinless perfection! Am I secretly promoting sin! God forbid! But I recognize the reality that saints do fall short! and that the mercy of God because of Jesus far outweighs our failings!

I see that what Christ has already accomplished isn't enough for those of your doctrine to continue walking in the light.
Saints don't keep slapping Jesus in the face
They don't crucify Him afresh after more and more rebellion..

In the passage above- cannot you see the contrast- If while we were enemies God so loved us....how much more now being reconciled by the blood...

That was enough for me to quit walking in the flesh...permanently.

All saints perfect in experience (just you) and the rest of the body of Christ (not so perfect) all have access because of Him, not our deeds.

All of the body of Christ is without sin.
There is no sin in Christ.

Once again you make God a cruel hateful god! At best you make people who have placed their trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin for their salvation, if they should sin after that acxt of faith- as not ever having been saved should they fail in the future! This is not teh Word of God!

My loving and merciful God freed me from sin.
What has your's done for you?
Seems he likes you in the dark.

You should learn positional truth- it would keep you from this spiritual arrogance!

I'll not stoop to name calling.
If one's "position" is in Christ, how can sin enter in?
It can't!

We are already crucified with Christ and Christ lives in me.
I am already seated in heavenly places with Christ
I am already once for all time justified, called, predestined, adopted and translated from the kingdom of darkness to His kingdom.
While you believe you do not need this verse-the rest of your brothers and sisters rejoice that God is doing this work:
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

There is no sin in sanctity.

Now learn what the present passive participle means for the word sanctified!

Let me guess...It means I can continue sinning.
No thanks...I'll continue walking in the Spirit, in the light.

Also we rejoice at this:
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

What has He begun in you?
Why does it contain sin?

And we rejoice that god is patient with His children as we work out Romans 12:1-2 and learn how not to conform, but to be transformed!

The transformation happened in Romans 6:3-7.

And you declare you have a higher status than Paul did! For he wrote this in Philippians.
Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

What Paul had yet to attain was his glorified body, as per Phil 3:21.
What about those from verse 15?..."Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:..."
I'll be "thus minded".

According to your doctrine, because Paul was not already perfect but striving to be so, He was not saved when He wrote all the epistles!

Had we to worry about the condition of our skin and bones at the final judgement, I would agree with you.
But I know sin springs from the mind, not the bad knees or hearing aids.

 

[nolidad]

I don't feel He was a poor example, as He took upon Himself flesh so He could endure all that we endure...including temptation.



Then use that Advocate to kill the flesh so you can walk in the Spirit instead.
It happens at our baptismal regeneration.
Crucify the flesh, bury it, and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The end result is freedom from sin. (Rom 6:7)
If you really didn't want to commit sin you would be straining to hear more about it. You would see the fallacies of what you have previously believed. They have captured you in an endless revolving door of imperfection.
That is the OT.
That is not what God desires for His children.


Jesus had skin.
"Sin nature" is not in the bible. Only men's interpretation of it.



Verses 5 and 7 concerns those in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 concern those walking in darkness.
Verse 9 is the means of changing from one road to another.
John is describing two very different types of man.
One sins, and the other doesn't.
Those who have confessed their sins can now walk in the light...where there is no darkness/sin.


You have made no movement advocating righteousness, only defense of sinning.



I didn't say "you", I mentioned your doctrine.


Yes I do believe Jesus died for all our sins, but I also know that believers don't commit more sins after their regeneration.


No, I continue to grow in grace and knowledge every day.
But who doesn't know that stealing, lying, murder, etc. are wrong?


You better believe it.




Not at all misled, but making provision for those whose previous walk in Christ was exposed for a walk in the darkness.
Labeled "unspiritual" by Paul, he bade those who were spiritual to restore them to the right ways of the light.
No man walking in the flesh, instead of in the Spirit, is going to heaven.


As if there were a difference.

I hope you become a better student of scripture.

Because if you are growing in knowledge you would know you are still living in sins you didn't even know were sin.

When you recognize you are not sinlessly perfect 24/7 as the Bible declares you are not!

YOu write: "Yes I do believe Jesus died for all our sins, but I also know that believers don't commit more sins after their regeneration."

So you declare before this cloud of witnesses, that at the moment of your personal regeneration in christ , You ceased from all sin and by that at the moment you were reborn, you were given the divine knowledge of everything that God would call sin! I declare a lie !

 

[nolidad]

If your "turn from" sin is real, there won't be any more sin.


Yes, Jesus did.
I teach that there don't have to be any failure at all.
Those who persist in walking in darkness have only themselves to blame for their destruction.

The word of God teaches:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


I see that what Christ has already accomplished isn't enough for those of your doctrine to continue walking in the light.
Saints don't keep slapping Jesus in the face
They don't crucify Him afresh after more and more rebellion..


That was enough for me to quit walking in the flesh...permanently.


All of the body of Christ is without sin.
There is no sin in Christ.


My loving and merciful God freed me from sin.
What has your's done for you?
Seems he likes you in the dark.


I'll not stoop to name calling.
If one's "position" is in Christ, how can sin enter in?
It can't!


There is no sin in sanctity.


Let me guess...It means I can continue sinning.
No thanks...I'll continue walking in the Spirit, in the light.


What has He begun in you?
Why does it contain sin?


The transformation happened in Romans 6:3-7.


What Paul had yet to attain was his glorified body, as per Phil 3:21.
What about those from verse 15?..."Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:..."
I'll be "thus minded".


Had we to worry about the condition of our skin and bones at the final judgement, I would agree with you.
But I know sin springs from the mind, not the bad knees or hearing aids.

YOu are so very wanting in the Word of God! and that is not surprising. You believed you have reached sinless perfection so you do not need teaching anymore. You are 100% Godly and 0% failing!

YOu have no need for the Word of God- for you need no more instruction in living righteously according to you! You are living in 100% righteousness! When you recognize you still fail, we your brothers and sisters in Christ will be here to remind of the great love the Lord has for His children and you and that His forgiveness extends beyond your momewnt of regeneration when you fasil!

 

[Phil W]

I hope you become a better student of scripture.

So I can return to sin?
No thanks.

Because if you are growing in knowledge you would know you are still living in sins you didn't even know were sin.

It is written..." But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
How can a man be tempted, drawn away of his own lusts,...(Which have been crucified with the affections and flesh" (Gal 5:24)...and enticed without knowing what he would be doing is wrong?
There is no sin done in ignorance.

When you recognize you are not sinlessly perfect 24/7 as the Bible declares you are not!

Where?

You write: "Yes I do believe Jesus died for all our sins, but I also know that believers don't commit more sins after their regeneration."
So you declare before this cloud of witnesses, that at the moment of your personal regeneration in Christ , You ceased from all sin and by that at the moment you were reborn, you were given the divine knowledge of everything that God would call sin! I declare a lie !

No, I don't declare that.
Since the moment of the death of who and what I was before I was water baptized into Christ and into His death, burial, and I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, I have committed no sin.
But conversion doesn't change the amount of knowledge in one's head.
I continue to grow in grace and knowledge, and hope to continue to learn till I am called home.

How can a man claim to be a servant of God while he still serves sin?
No man can serve two masters.

 

[Phil W]

YOu are so very wanting in the Word of God! and that is not surprising. You believed you have reached sinless perfection so you do not need teaching anymore. You are 100% Godly and 0% failing!

When I look at what all your learning has allowed you to do, I realize I have absolutely no interest in that kind of knowledge.
If you have a way to grow in grace in knowledge...I will be interested.
But that knowledge must be based on righteousness, and not on excuses to keep sinning.

YOu have no need for the Word of God- for you need no more instruction in living righteously according to you! You are living in 100% righteousness! When you recognize you still fail, we your brothers and sisters in Christ will be here to remind of the great love the Lord has for His children and you and that His forgiveness extends beyond your momewnt of regeneration when you fasil!

As long as I serve God there will be no such "recognition".
I only hope you will one day be pressed in the spirit to learn how NOT to sin.

It is written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
I "suffered with Christ" when I was water baptized into His death.
I was buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.(Rom 6:3-7)
Reborn of God's seed, which cannot bear evil fruit.
I believe in baptismal regeneration after the death of the old man.

 

[nolidad]

So I can return to sin?
No thanks.


It is written..." But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
How can a man be tempted, drawn away of his own lusts,...(Which have been crucified with the affections and flesh" (Gal 5:24)...and enticed without knowing what he would be doing is wrong?
There is no sin done in ignorance.


Where?


No, I don't declare that.
Since the moment of the death of who and what I was before I was water baptized into Christ and into His death, burial, and I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, I have committed no sin.
But conversion doesn't change the amount of knowledge in one's head.
I continue to grow in grace and knowledge, and hope to continue to learn till I am called home.

How can a man claim to be a servant of God while he still serves sin?
No man can serve two masters.

YOu are woefully ignorant of the scriptures!

People are responsible for all sins-even done in ignorance. People who are cannibals are guilty of murder before God even though they do not think so!

Again you have been presumptious! I do not want you to go bak into sin! Another lie you have made of my thoughts! Thats 3 sins so far just in responding to me!

Too bad you do no think Paul is unsaved! Just think all those epistles were written in darkness!

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

He admitted ne is imperfect- so according to your ex-cathedra pntification he is in darkness or unsaved!

I will tell HIm you said HI when I fellowship[ with HIm in heaven.

 

[nolidad]

When I look at what all your learning has allowed you to do, I realize I have absolutely no interest in that kind of knowledge.
If you have a way to grow in grace in knowledge...I will be interested.
But that knowledge must be based on righteousness, and not on excuses to keep sinning.


As long as I serve God there will be no such "recognition".
I only hope you will one day be pressed in the spirit to learn how NOT to sin.

It is written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
I "suffered with Christ" when I was water baptized into His death.
I was buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.(Rom 6:3-7)
Reborn of God's seed, which cannot bear evil fruit.
I believe in baptismal regeneration after the death of the old man.

Being dunked is not suffering with christ! Maybe you need basic english before you get to basic greek.

Once again you do not need to read the bible- when you rose out of the water you implied you were endued with perfect knowledge of all right and wrong and you have been living in that right ever since.

No need to learn how to give- you give perfectly, no need to learn love-you love perfectlyi, no need to learn to pray you have been praying perfectly, no need to learn abou tthe wiles of the devil, you have avoided them perfectly, no need to learn to protect the stumbling brethren- you are too perfect fpor that!

No need to learn about teh love of god- He has no love left if one who professes faith in Him screws up once!

Thanks but no thanks- I will keep the Jesus of the Bible and not Phil W.

 

[Phil W]

YOu are woefully ignorant of the scriptures!

Could be.
But what I do know has allowed me to live without sin.

People are responsible for all sins-even done in ignorance. People who are cannibals are guilty of murder before God even though they do not think so!

Sins are done on purpose.
They are products of, as James writes..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
Without lust or enticement there is no sin.

Again you have been presumptious! I do not want you to go bak into sin! Another lie you have made of my thoughts! Thats 3 sins so far just in responding to me!

What other reason could there be for your rejection of life without sin?

Too bad you do no think Paul is unsaved! Just think all those epistles were written in darkness!

That is a double negative, essentially saying..."Too bad you think Paul is saved."

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
He admitted ne is imperfect- so according to your ex-cathedra pntification he is in darkness or unsaved!

I am happy to explain it to you again...
The one thing Paul lacked in this context's perfection is his glorified body...as per verse 21..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
Who do you suppose Paul is talking about in verse 15?..."Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."
It seems some were perfect outside of their final disposition as glorified bodies.
Paul also wrote this..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. (1 Cor 15:34)
I have almost thirty more writings of Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, and James that all deal with complete obedience to God...if you are interested.

I will tell HIm you said HI when I fellowship[ with HIm in heaven.

Hardly something to jest about.
Let's keep it scriptural.